Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

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Milo
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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by Milo » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:23 am

In the end though all empires overreach and go broke on it. If China wants to own every broke ass country, maybe they should; serves them right.

Let’s not forget that despite their massive growth, much of their population is still desperately poor and without decent infrastructure. How much can they afford to piss away their imperial fantasies?

As they do this, the advances in robotics and Machine Learning will continue to undermine their model.

British Labour once felt if they bought much UK industry, they could fund all sorts of programs with it and keep everyone in that industry employed for life, then they were stuck with it, as it went down the drain. Canada experienced something similar.

How about we just let China drink deep from the poisoned chalice?

In general, I think the world’s democracies have gone way too far in trading wth crooked dictatorships. I think in an ideal world we should pay a bit more and keep the trade within the democracies, not just countries that have elections, but democracies. Of course, industry wants the quick fix and fast buck and relies on their lobbyists to beg them out of trouble when it inevitably goes wrong. It takes strong leadership to resists that. My own government for one is shamefully supine in the face of Chinese influence.

We always have too little faith in human capital and too much in inanimate capital. China has hordes of human drones but that won’t be of much value as robots steal all those jobs.
Rapid’s orange robots look as basic as can be, but their differentiation is inside with AI-driven software and vision systems. In a video that Kretchmer shows over Zoom, for example, a robot hot stamps a logo onto a coffee maker. Other robots can operate pad printers that are used to create tagless labels on apparel or print onto plastic and other materials. “We were going to name it the Boring Robotics Company, and then Elon came around and stole it from us,” Kretchmer says. “We don’t have a robot that shows off all its fancy footwork. We have a robot that can be programmed using AI to do very specific tasks that are ubiquitous across manufacturing facilities, especially contract manufacturers.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/amyfeldman ... 70d16b53a6

Sure, China will automate too but their system is far too rigid to adapt without changes that threaten the CCP. The impoverished Chinese will know that they never saw this prosperity before it was gone. One the one hand they may overthrow or notably reform the CCP, on the other, they will stagnate economically and get dragged down by their ownership of all the broke assets that they own.

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Doc
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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by Doc » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:34 am

cassowary wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:15 am
Doc wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:24 pm


I am pretty sure he isn't a communist. A socialist certainly. But not a communist. Every Communist I have ever known was not at all sincere. They would tell the most outrageous lies about the fantasy world of Communism and communist economics. Granted they were all Maoists. When I say sincere I mean no sane person would actually believe the things they said they believe.
That's exactly like Sertorio. He said things no sane person believe. He tells outrageous lies and lives in a fantasy world. There is only a thin line between a Socialist and a Communist. In fact, the two words are almost interchangeable.
Just the same Sertorio is not a "True Believer"(See below) if he was he would be insisting that Al Qaeda was a freedom movement and constantly calling Israel an apartheid state. If he was a communist his ideology would be much more consistent with communism. I take it his gripes about the west is more anti west than pro-communism.
The socialist mode of production, also referred to as the communist mode of production, the lower-stage of communism[1] or simply socialism as Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels used the terms communism and socialism interchangeably, ...
Why do you think the Chinese Communist Party claims to be practicing Socialism with Chinese characteristics? Why do you think the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) called the Soviet Union, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics?

That's because Socialists/Communists believe that Socialism is the stage just before Communism. That is why I prefer to the ideology as Socialism/Communism. The two are too closely intwined to separate.
Sertorio isn't wrong about everything he says. I would like to know how he came to believe the things he is wrong about. That might be an interesting story. But that is his business so if he doesn't want to share I wouldn't hold it against him.
Well, so do I. I have said many times before Sertorio is the most fascinating person here in this forum. I have some speculations:

1)Maybe he mispent his youth on Socialist/Communist activities when he could have used his intelligence on persuing a lucrative career like his peers. So, in his old age, it is painful to admit to himself that he is wrong. So he clings to Socialism and anti-Americanism just as oBUMa accused conservatives of clinging to guns and religion.

2)Maybe he is a troll working for the IRA.

3)Maybe he is the illegitimate son of an American serviceman who abandoned his mother and himself when he was young. So he has a resentment at Americans which found ideological expression in his Socialist/Communist activism.
https://www.academia.edu/21464682/The_T ... ric_Hoffer

THE TRUE BELIEVER
_____
Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements


ERIC HOFFER

This book deals with some peculiarities common to all mass movements, be they religious movements, social revolutions or nationalist movements. It does not maintain that all movement share identical, but that they share certain essential characteristics which give them a family likeness.

All mass movements generate in their adherents a readiness to die and a proclivity for united action; all of them,irrespective of the doctrine they preach and the program they project, breed fanaticism, enthusiasm, fervent hope, hatred and intolerance; all of them are capable of releasing a powerfulow of activity in certain departments of life; all of them demand blind faith and single hearted allegiance.

All movements, however different in doctrine and aspiration,draw their early adherents from the same types of humanity;they all appeal to the same types of mind.

Though there are obvious differences between the fanatical Christian, the fanatical Mohammedan, the fanatical nationalist,the fanatical Communist and the fanatical Nazi, it is yet true that the fanaticism which animates them may be viewed and treated as one. The same is true of the force which drives them on to expansion and world dominion. There is a certain uniformity in all types of dedication, of faith, of pursuit of power, of unity and of self-sacrifice. There are vast differences in the contents of holy causes and doctrines, but a certain uniformity in the factors which make them effective. He who,like Pascal, finds precise reasons for the effectiveness of Christian doctrine has also found the reasons for the effectiveness of Communist, Nazi and nationalist doctrine.However different the holy causes people die for, they perhaps die basically for the same thing.

This book concerns itself chief with the active revivalist phase of mass movements. This phase is dominated by the true believer—the man of fanatical faith who is ready to sacrifice his life for a holy cause—and an attempt is made to trace his genesis and outline his nature. As an aid in this effort, use is made of a working hypothesis. Starting out from the fact that the frustrated
1
predominate among the early adherents of all mass movements and that they usually join of their own accord, it is assumed: 1) that frustration of itself, without any proselytizing prompting from the outside, can generate most of the peculiar characteristics of the true believer; 2) that an effective technique of conversion consists basically in the inculcation and fixation of proclivities and responses indigenous to the frustrated mind.To test the validity of these assumptions, it was necessary to inquire into the ills that afflict the frustrated, how they react against them, the degree to which these reactions correspond to the responses of the true believer, and, finally, the manner in which these reactions can facilitate the rise and spread of amass movement. It was also necessary to examine the practices of contemporary movements, where successful techniques of conversion had been perfected and applied, in order to discover whether they corroborate the view that a proselytizing mass movement deliberately fosters in its adherents a frustrated state of mind, and that it automatically advances its interest when it seconds the propensities of the frustrated.It is necessary for most of us these days to have some insight into the motives and responses of the true believer. For though ours is a godless age, it is the very opposite of irreligious. The true believer is everywhere on the march, and both by converting and antagonizing he is shaping the world in his own image. And whether we are to line up with him or against him,it is well that we should know all we can concerning his nature and potentialities.

It is perhaps not superfluous to add a word of caution. When we speak of the family likeness of mass movements, we use the word “family” in a taxonomical sense. The tomato and the nightshade are of the same family, the Solanaceae. Though the one is nutritious and the other poisonous, they have many morphological, anatomical and physiological traits in common so that even the non-botanist senses a family likeness. The assumption that mass movements have many traits in common does not imply that all movements are equally beneficent or poisonous. The book passes no judgments, and expresses no preferences. It merely tries to explain; and the explanations—all of them theories—are in the nature of suggestions and arguments even when they are stated in what seems a categorical tone. I can do no better than quote Montaigne: “All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed.”
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Sertorio
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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by Sertorio » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:40 am

Milo wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:23 am
In the end though all empires overreach and go broke on it. If China wants to own every broke ass country, maybe they should; serves them right.

Let’s not forget that despite their massive growth, much of their population is still desperately poor and without decent infrastructure. How much can they afford to piss away their imperial fantasies?

As they do this, the advances in robotics and Machine Learning will continue to undermine their model.

British Labour once felt if they bought much UK industry, they could fund all sorts of programs with it and keep everyone in that industry employed for life, then they were stuck with it, as it went down the drain. Canada experienced something similar.

How about we just let China drink deep from the poisoned chalice?

In general, I think the world’s democracies have gone way too far in trading wth crooked dictatorships. I think in an ideal world we should pay a bit more and keep the trade within the democracies, not just countries that have elections, but democracies. Of course, industry wants the quick fix and fast buck and relies on their lobbyists to beg them out of trouble when it inevitably goes wrong. It takes strong leadership to resists that. My own government for one is shamefully supine in the face of Chinese influence.

We always have too little faith in human capital and too much in inanimate capital. China has hordes of human drones but that won’t be of much value as robots steal all those jobs.
Rapid’s orange robots look as basic as can be, but their differentiation is inside with AI-driven software and vision systems. In a video that Kretchmer shows over Zoom, for example, a robot hot stamps a logo onto a coffee maker. Other robots can operate pad printers that are used to create tagless labels on apparel or print onto plastic and other materials. “We were going to name it the Boring Robotics Company, and then Elon came around and stole it from us,” Kretchmer says. “We don’t have a robot that shows off all its fancy footwork. We have a robot that can be programmed using AI to do very specific tasks that are ubiquitous across manufacturing facilities, especially contract manufacturers.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/amyfeldman ... 70d16b53a6

Sure, China will automate too but their system is far too rigid to adapt without changes that threaten the CCP. The impoverished Chinese will know that they never saw this prosperity before it was gone. One the one hand they may overthrow or notably reform the CCP, on the other, they will stagnate economically and get dragged down by their ownership of all the broke assets that they own.
It's amazing how some people keep underestimating people who possess a 5,000 year civilization and who have had to adjust hundreds of times just to stay alive. The CCP is totally irrelevant in the context of Chinese history. It's now pretty useful, but when it stops being so it will be discarded and the Chinese will invent another way to rule themselves. Meanwhile, because they are very intelligent and highly civilized, they will stay ahead of most other countries, and they will contribute with much of future inventions and products. Rather than being hostile to them we should cooperate with them and benefit from the things in which they are good. I, for one, am not at all concerned about China's preeminence.

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Sertorio
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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by Sertorio » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:48 am

cassowary wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:41 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:11 am

Cass calls me a communist just because he doesn't want to make the effort of understanding what I am talking about. Calling me communist is a sign of mental incapacity from him. In other times he would call me a "heathen" or a "fascist" because that would enable him to turn off his brain and avoid addressing the real issues.

I may be wrong about some things, but I am not wrong in seeing in the US desperate policies the sign of a greedy, hegemonic power, which cannot accept that it no longer calls the shots, and no longer can leech the rest of the world for its sole benefit. Just like the UK in the 19th century, the US thinks it has the right of imposing its will and destroying all those who oppose it. The US is decadent, and its decadence is as ugly to see as Rome's decadence in the 5th century. Unable to build anything anymore, the US can only destroy or threaten to destroy. Which is pathetic because, with the exception of its nuclear weapons, the US no longer has the means to impose its will. Its soldiers - with a few exceptions - will not fight, and when they fight they cannot win. As we saw in Vietnam and in Afghanistan, and would see again in Iran, in the South China Sea, or in the Ukraine. The best thing would be for Americans to recognize this and silently withdraw to their home country, in peace, and dedicated to solving the many problems of the American society. The misguided idea that they are God's chosen people makes it hard for Americans to accept their irrelevancy, and they may prefer to go down fighting. Hopefully they will not drag the rest of us in their final journey to oblivion...And then, just like China, maybe the US will again become relevant, after a couple centuries in limbo.
Sertorio,

But the problem is that most people around the world don't see the US that way. The US is the protector of Europe from Russia. The East Europeans certainly want the US to stay. Japan and S Korea welcome US troops to defend them from North Korea and China. What you refuse to see is that the US troops are there at the request of their hosts.

When they are no longer needed, they will ask the US to go home and the US will leave. A good example is the Philippines which asked the US to vacate Subic Bay and Clarke Airfield which they used for decades. I have pointed this out to you many times before. But you simply ignored it and repeat your nonsense again.

Try to refute what I said. Did the Philippines not ask the US to leave? Did the US not leave? So this means that US troops are not in Europe, Japan and elsewhere by force buy by the permission and welcome of their hosts. So this means that, contrary to what you said, the world sees the US as their protector and not their colonial master.

Try to refute this. Don't just ignore it and repeat your nonsense again.

..............................................................................................................

All you said sounded like Cold War Era Soviet Union propaganda. That is why I called you a Communist/Socialist.
You are, once more, completely wrong.

Europe doesn't need any protection, and certainly not from Russia. Putin is so much more civilized than Biden that I believe we would rather need Russia's protection from the US. And neither Japan nor South Korea welcome US troops. They have had to put up with them as a result of WWII and the Korean War and, as we have seen in Okinawa, they would love being rid of them.

As to American troops leaving when they are asked, just look at Iraq and Syria to see that's not true...

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Milo
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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by Milo » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:44 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:48 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:41 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:11 am

Cass calls me a communist just because he doesn't want to make the effort of understanding what I am talking about. Calling me communist is a sign of mental incapacity from him. In other times he would call me a "heathen" or a "fascist" because that would enable him to turn off his brain and avoid addressing the real issues.

I may be wrong about some things, but I am not wrong in seeing in the US desperate policies the sign of a greedy, hegemonic power, which cannot accept that it no longer calls the shots, and no longer can leech the rest of the world for its sole benefit. Just like the UK in the 19th century, the US thinks it has the right of imposing its will and destroying all those who oppose it. The US is decadent, and its decadence is as ugly to see as Rome's decadence in the 5th century. Unable to build anything anymore, the US can only destroy or threaten to destroy. Which is pathetic because, with the exception of its nuclear weapons, the US no longer has the means to impose its will. Its soldiers - with a few exceptions - will not fight, and when they fight they cannot win. As we saw in Vietnam and in Afghanistan, and would see again in Iran, in the South China Sea, or in the Ukraine. The best thing would be for Americans to recognize this and silently withdraw to their home country, in peace, and dedicated to solving the many problems of the American society. The misguided idea that they are God's chosen people makes it hard for Americans to accept their irrelevancy, and they may prefer to go down fighting. Hopefully they will not drag the rest of us in their final journey to oblivion...And then, just like China, maybe the US will again become relevant, after a couple centuries in limbo.
Sertorio,

But the problem is that most people around the world don't see the US that way. The US is the protector of Europe from Russia. The East Europeans certainly want the US to stay. Japan and S Korea welcome US troops to defend them from North Korea and China. What you refuse to see is that the US troops are there at the request of their hosts.

When they are no longer needed, they will ask the US to go home and the US will leave. A good example is the Philippines which asked the US to vacate Subic Bay and Clarke Airfield which they used for decades. I have pointed this out to you many times before. But you simply ignored it and repeat your nonsense again.

Try to refute what I said. Did the Philippines not ask the US to leave? Did the US not leave? So this means that US troops are not in Europe, Japan and elsewhere by force buy by the permission and welcome of their hosts. So this means that, contrary to what you said, the world sees the US as their protector and not their colonial master.

Try to refute this. Don't just ignore it and repeat your nonsense again.

..............................................................................................................

All you said sounded like Cold War Era Soviet Union propaganda. That is why I called you a Communist/Socialist.
You are, once more, completely wrong.

Europe doesn't need any protection, and certainly not from Russia. Putin is so much more civilized than Biden that I believe we would rather need Russia's protection from the US.
Funny how nobody votes for that though.

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Sertorio
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Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by Sertorio » Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:02 pm

Milo wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:44 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:48 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:41 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:11 am

Cass calls me a communist just because he doesn't want to make the effort of understanding what I am talking about. Calling me communist is a sign of mental incapacity from him. In other times he would call me a "heathen" or a "fascist" because that would enable him to turn off his brain and avoid addressing the real issues.

I may be wrong about some things, but I am not wrong in seeing in the US desperate policies the sign of a greedy, hegemonic power, which cannot accept that it no longer calls the shots, and no longer can leech the rest of the world for its sole benefit. Just like the UK in the 19th century, the US thinks it has the right of imposing its will and destroying all those who oppose it. The US is decadent, and its decadence is as ugly to see as Rome's decadence in the 5th century. Unable to build anything anymore, the US can only destroy or threaten to destroy. Which is pathetic because, with the exception of its nuclear weapons, the US no longer has the means to impose its will. Its soldiers - with a few exceptions - will not fight, and when they fight they cannot win. As we saw in Vietnam and in Afghanistan, and would see again in Iran, in the South China Sea, or in the Ukraine. The best thing would be for Americans to recognize this and silently withdraw to their home country, in peace, and dedicated to solving the many problems of the American society. The misguided idea that they are God's chosen people makes it hard for Americans to accept their irrelevancy, and they may prefer to go down fighting. Hopefully they will not drag the rest of us in their final journey to oblivion...And then, just like China, maybe the US will again become relevant, after a couple centuries in limbo.
Sertorio,

But the problem is that most people around the world don't see the US that way. The US is the protector of Europe from Russia. The East Europeans certainly want the US to stay. Japan and S Korea welcome US troops to defend them from North Korea and China. What you refuse to see is that the US troops are there at the request of their hosts.

When they are no longer needed, they will ask the US to go home and the US will leave. A good example is the Philippines which asked the US to vacate Subic Bay and Clarke Airfield which they used for decades. I have pointed this out to you many times before. But you simply ignored it and repeat your nonsense again.

Try to refute what I said. Did the Philippines not ask the US to leave? Did the US not leave? So this means that US troops are not in Europe, Japan and elsewhere by force buy by the permission and welcome of their hosts. So this means that, contrary to what you said, the world sees the US as their protector and not their colonial master.

Try to refute this. Don't just ignore it and repeat your nonsense again.

..............................................................................................................

All you said sounded like Cold War Era Soviet Union propaganda. That is why I called you a Communist/Socialist.
You are, once more, completely wrong.

Europe doesn't need any protection, and certainly not from Russia. Putin is so much more civilized than Biden that I believe we would rather need Russia's protection from the US.
Funny how nobody votes for that though.
We will, once we wake up...

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Milo
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by Milo » Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:28 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:02 pm
Milo wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:44 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:48 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:41 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:11 am

Cass calls me a communist just because he doesn't want to make the effort of understanding what I am talking about. Calling me communist is a sign of mental incapacity from him. In other times he would call me a "heathen" or a "fascist" because that would enable him to turn off his brain and avoid addressing the real issues.

I may be wrong about some things, but I am not wrong in seeing in the US desperate policies the sign of a greedy, hegemonic power, which cannot accept that it no longer calls the shots, and no longer can leech the rest of the world for its sole benefit. Just like the UK in the 19th century, the US thinks it has the right of imposing its will and destroying all those who oppose it. The US is decadent, and its decadence is as ugly to see as Rome's decadence in the 5th century. Unable to build anything anymore, the US can only destroy or threaten to destroy. Which is pathetic because, with the exception of its nuclear weapons, the US no longer has the means to impose its will. Its soldiers - with a few exceptions - will not fight, and when they fight they cannot win. As we saw in Vietnam and in Afghanistan, and would see again in Iran, in the South China Sea, or in the Ukraine. The best thing would be for Americans to recognize this and silently withdraw to their home country, in peace, and dedicated to solving the many problems of the American society. The misguided idea that they are God's chosen people makes it hard for Americans to accept their irrelevancy, and they may prefer to go down fighting. Hopefully they will not drag the rest of us in their final journey to oblivion...And then, just like China, maybe the US will again become relevant, after a couple centuries in limbo.
Sertorio,

But the problem is that most people around the world don't see the US that way. The US is the protector of Europe from Russia. The East Europeans certainly want the US to stay. Japan and S Korea welcome US troops to defend them from North Korea and China. What you refuse to see is that the US troops are there at the request of their hosts.

When they are no longer needed, they will ask the US to go home and the US will leave. A good example is the Philippines which asked the US to vacate Subic Bay and Clarke Airfield which they used for decades. I have pointed this out to you many times before. But you simply ignored it and repeat your nonsense again.

Try to refute what I said. Did the Philippines not ask the US to leave? Did the US not leave? So this means that US troops are not in Europe, Japan and elsewhere by force buy by the permission and welcome of their hosts. So this means that, contrary to what you said, the world sees the US as their protector and not their colonial master.

Try to refute this. Don't just ignore it and repeat your nonsense again.

..............................................................................................................

All you said sounded like Cold War Era Soviet Union propaganda. That is why I called you a Communist/Socialist.
You are, once more, completely wrong.

Europe doesn't need any protection, and certainly not from Russia. Putin is so much more civilized than Biden that I believe we would rather need Russia's protection from the US.
Funny how nobody votes for that though.
We will, once we wake up...
When East Europe woke up they ran away from Russia as fast as they could.

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cassowary
Posts: 4825
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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by cassowary » Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:11 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:02 pm
Milo wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:44 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:48 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:41 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:11 am

Cass calls me a communist just because he doesn't want to make the effort of understanding what I am talking about. Calling me communist is a sign of mental incapacity from him. In other times he would call me a "heathen" or a "fascist" because that would enable him to turn off his brain and avoid addressing the real issues.

I may be wrong about some things, but I am not wrong in seeing in the US desperate policies the sign of a greedy, hegemonic power, which cannot accept that it no longer calls the shots, and no longer can leech the rest of the world for its sole benefit. Just like the UK in the 19th century, the US thinks it has the right of imposing its will and destroying all those who oppose it. The US is decadent, and its decadence is as ugly to see as Rome's decadence in the 5th century. Unable to build anything anymore, the US can only destroy or threaten to destroy. Which is pathetic because, with the exception of its nuclear weapons, the US no longer has the means to impose its will. Its soldiers - with a few exceptions - will not fight, and when they fight they cannot win. As we saw in Vietnam and in Afghanistan, and would see again in Iran, in the South China Sea, or in the Ukraine. The best thing would be for Americans to recognize this and silently withdraw to their home country, in peace, and dedicated to solving the many problems of the American society. The misguided idea that they are God's chosen people makes it hard for Americans to accept their irrelevancy, and they may prefer to go down fighting. Hopefully they will not drag the rest of us in their final journey to oblivion...And then, just like China, maybe the US will again become relevant, after a couple centuries in limbo.
Sertorio,

But the problem is that most people around the world don't see the US that way. The US is the protector of Europe from Russia. The East Europeans certainly want the US to stay. Japan and S Korea welcome US troops to defend them from North Korea and China. What you refuse to see is that the US troops are there at the request of their hosts.

When they are no longer needed, they will ask the US to go home and the US will leave. A good example is the Philippines which asked the US to vacate Subic Bay and Clarke Airfield which they used for decades. I have pointed this out to you many times before. But you simply ignored it and repeat your nonsense again.

Try to refute what I said. Did the Philippines not ask the US to leave? Did the US not leave? So this means that US troops are not in Europe, Japan and elsewhere by force buy by the permission and welcome of their hosts. So this means that, contrary to what you said, the world sees the US as their protector and not their colonial master.

Try to refute this. Don't just ignore it and repeat your nonsense again.

..............................................................................................................

All you said sounded like Cold War Era Soviet Union propaganda. That is why I called you a Communist/Socialist.
You are, once more, completely wrong.

Europe doesn't need any protection, and certainly not from Russia. Putin is so much more civilized than Biden that I believe we would rather need Russia's protection from the US.
Funny how nobody votes for that though.
We will, once we wake up...
All Europeans have to do is to simply ask the US to leave, and the US troops will leave. France did ask the US troops to leave after WWII and US troops left French soil. But Europe does not, which proves that majority of Europeans want US forces to remain. Why? It because they are afraid of Russia.

The same goes for Asia. As I pointed out the Filipinos asked the US to leave and they left. So what you said, Sertorio, is nonsense. Or at least, the majority of Europeans don’t agree with you. US forces are in Europe because most Europeans desire US protection.

Do you, Sertorio, at least agree with the following statement?

“US forces are in Europe because most European countries want them there to protect them from Russia.”

In other words, you may disagree with the need of US forces but accept that most Europeans don’t agree with you. You believe Russia is not a threat but accept that most Europeans don’t agree with you.
The Imp :D

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Doc
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by Doc » Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:53 pm

Milo wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:28 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:02 pm
Milo wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:44 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:48 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:41 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:11 am

Cass calls me a communist just because he doesn't want to make the effort of understanding what I am talking about. Calling me communist is a sign of mental incapacity from him. In other times he would call me a "heathen" or a "fascist" because that would enable him to turn off his brain and avoid addressing the real issues.

I may be wrong about some things, but I am not wrong in seeing in the US desperate policies the sign of a greedy, hegemonic power, which cannot accept that it no longer calls the shots, and no longer can leech the rest of the world for its sole benefit. Just like the UK in the 19th century, the US thinks it has the right of imposing its will and destroying all those who oppose it. The US is decadent, and its decadence is as ugly to see as Rome's decadence in the 5th century. Unable to build anything anymore, the US can only destroy or threaten to destroy. Which is pathetic because, with the exception of its nuclear weapons, the US no longer has the means to impose its will. Its soldiers - with a few exceptions - will not fight, and when they fight they cannot win. As we saw in Vietnam and in Afghanistan, and would see again in Iran, in the South China Sea, or in the Ukraine. The best thing would be for Americans to recognize this and silently withdraw to their home country, in peace, and dedicated to solving the many problems of the American society. The misguided idea that they are God's chosen people makes it hard for Americans to accept their irrelevancy, and they may prefer to go down fighting. Hopefully they will not drag the rest of us in their final journey to oblivion...And then, just like China, maybe the US will again become relevant, after a couple centuries in limbo.
Sertorio,

But the problem is that most people around the world don't see the US that way. The US is the protector of Europe from Russia. The East Europeans certainly want the US to stay. Japan and S Korea welcome US troops to defend them from North Korea and China. What you refuse to see is that the US troops are there at the request of their hosts.

When they are no longer needed, they will ask the US to go home and the US will leave. A good example is the Philippines which asked the US to vacate Subic Bay and Clarke Airfield which they used for decades. I have pointed this out to you many times before. But you simply ignored it and repeat your nonsense again.

Try to refute what I said. Did the Philippines not ask the US to leave? Did the US not leave? So this means that US troops are not in Europe, Japan and elsewhere by force buy by the permission and welcome of their hosts. So this means that, contrary to what you said, the world sees the US as their protector and not their colonial master.

Try to refute this. Don't just ignore it and repeat your nonsense again.

..............................................................................................................

All you said sounded like Cold War Era Soviet Union propaganda. That is why I called you a Communist/Socialist.
You are, once more, completely wrong.

Europe doesn't need any protection, and certainly not from Russia. Putin is so much more civilized than Biden that I believe we would rather need Russia's protection from the US.
Funny how nobody votes for that though.
We will, once we wake up...
When East Europe woke up they ran away from Russia as fast as they could.
:lol:

Yeah I actually have that on video

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
Posts: 6718
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by neverfail » Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:58 pm

Milo wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:23 am
In general, I think the world’s democracies have gone way too far in trading wth crooked dictatorships. I think in an ideal world we should pay a bit more and keep the trade within the democracies, not just countries that have elections, but democracies. Of course, industry wants the quick fix and fast buck and relies on their lobbyists to beg them out of trouble when it inevitably goes wrong. It takes strong leadership to resists that. My own government for one is shamefully supine in the face of Chinese influence.
Hi Milo,

Online, you would know me by now and be aware that whenever you put up a reasonable case I would normally be the first to cheer you on. But in this case I must take issue.

If any such scheme were to be put into place then among the democracies you would need to count Australia out. If we could only profitably sell our iron ore, coal, liquified natural gas; our wheat and wool to the US and Canada instead of the PRC it would be an absolute pleasure to do so. Unfortunately, for reasons I probably do not need to mention there is no market demand over there for imports of these products. Likewise Europe. But there is plenty of it in eastern Asia where Australia has the tactical advantage of relatively close proximity to these markets. Not only China but from Japan, South Korea and Taiwan (all three democracies?) as well. It is just that in scale of purchases the PRC eclipses all of the others put together.

This is not merely a matter of allowing large corporations (and politically influential producer groups) make fat profits but rather describes something that underpins our accustoned living standards. It is always easy for any people to accept rising living standards but just try asking them to make the sort of sacrifices that would significently lower these.

There are exceptions to any rule but as a rule I would suggest that it is usually a bad idea to let governments monkey around with market forces. You argue in favour of "paying a bit more" in order to keep business within the Western democracies but if experience is any guide the likely effect of any such protectionist shell will be (given the multiplier effect likely to ensue) inflationary pressures like the double digit ones I can remember from the 1970's into the 1980's. I do not look foreward to re-entry into any era of stagflation mark 2.

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