Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

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Doc
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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by Doc » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:31 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:53 am
Doc wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:08 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:22 am
Doc wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:24 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:03 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:53 pm


Excuse me? The CCP are the ones grabbing territory as if they were the Nazi Third Reich
What territories are those? How big are they? And they belong to whom?...
South China Sea. Phillipines Vietnam Brunei Malaysia and Indonesia
Let's assume that China has no indisputable right to some of the islands/islets on the South China Sea. If it takes them over it will be at least a doubtful action, which may infringe on other countries (disputed) rights. But that will not endanger any of the neighbouring countries. And any local resources, such as gas and oil, are no longer of vital importance to anyone, seeing that we are moving towards a greener economy. To China those islands are important because they will enable it to better protect its southern flank.

The funny thing is that while people make a fuss about those minor possible violations by China, they tend to ignore, for instance, Israel's taking over the Golan and much of the West Bank. It's not the potential land grab in the South China Sea that bothers those people, but the fact that it is China doing it. And such possible violations by China may be used as an argument against Chinese evil intentions. Has anyone ever asked what entitled the US to grab Hawaii? Did the Hawaiian people welcome the destruction of their independence? Do Americans condemn the way the US stole huge territories from Mexico? Some people may dislike China and its regime, but as a major power China is in no way worse than the US. Of course Americans and those who identify with the Anglo empire (the Five Eyes...) may regret being sidelined by China, but I expect much of the world to welcome such a change.
The world court has already ruled against the CCP so there is no need to assume anything Taking the territory of those countries is endangering them as the CCP is taking their future away from them. The CCP policies are not only stripping the resources of the countries in question but they are stripping the resources of the world. Including the fish of the South China Sea.



As far as what you have to say here about the South China sea it is all CCP propaganda. IE it is not true
Repeating your assessments doesn't make them any more true. Some countries in Asia may suffer minor losses due to China's forceful imposition of some of its territorial claims. That's not enough to compare China to Nazi Germany. And the US has a much worse record, as I pointed out in my previous post. But you preferred to ignore that...
[/quote]

Strange you seem to think that repeating propaganda makes it more true.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by neverfail » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:31 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:22 am

The funny thing is that while people make a fuss about those minor possible violations by China,...
Thin end of the wedge Sertorio. The PRC is pushing the envelope with an eye on bigger things later (just like Adolf Hitler with his 1936 voiding of an international treaty to keep German troops out of the Rhineland.)
... they tend to ignore, for instance, Israel's taking over the Golan and much of the West Bank.
You are about my age Sertorio so you cannot be ignorant about the course of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War - which was globally big news at the time. That was a conflict that Israel won on merit (in those days it did not have the backing of the USA either) and the Arab aggressors richly deserved to lose.

While years later the State of Israel was able to negotiate a treaty with Egypt that restored the Sinai peninsula to Egyptian soverignty (minus the Gaza enclave populated with Palestinian refugees, which the Egyptians did not want back :) ) No such deal was struck with Jordan to restore the West Bank because Jordan did not want the West Bank with its population of Palestinians back within their domain (nobody loves the Palestianians).

As for Golan heights: before the Israeli army stormed that elevated position the Assad regime had placed artillary on that high ground to regularly bombard Israeli settlements located in eastern Galilee below. I cannot blame them for wanting to keep that strategic location permanently out of Syrian hands.

Any comparison between the South China Sea reefs and islets to China and the importance of Golan Heights to Israel is totally spurious. There is no comparison between the two.

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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by Jim the Moron » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:13 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:31 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:22 am

The funny thing is that while people make a fuss about those minor possible violations by China,...
Thin end of the wedge Sertorio. The PRC is pushing the envelope with an eye on bigger things later (just like Adolf Hitler with his 1936 voiding of an international treaty to keep German troops out of the Rhineland.)
... they tend to ignore, for instance, Israel's taking over the Golan and much of the West Bank.
You are about my age Sertorio so you cannot be ignorant about the course of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War - which was globally big news at the time. That was a conflict that Israel won on merit (in those days it did not have the backing of the USA either) and the Arab aggressors richly deserved to lose.

While years later the State of Israel was able to negotiate a treaty with Egypt that restored the Sinai peninsula to Egyptian soverignty (minus the Gaza enclave populated with Palestinian refugees, which the Egyptians did not want back :) ) No such deal was struck with Jordan to restore the West Bank because Jordan did not want the West Bank with its population of Palestinians back within their domain (nobody loves the Palestianians).

As for Golan heights: before the Israeli army stormed that elevated position the Assad regime had placed artillary on that high ground to regularly bombard Israeli settlements located in eastern Galilee below. I cannot blame them for wanting to keep that strategic location permanently out of Syrian hands.

Any comparison between the South China Sea reefs and islets to China and the importance of Golan Heights to Israel is totally spurious. There is no comparison between the two.

As Pasta of fond memory would have said - BINGO!

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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by cassowary » Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:36 pm

Doc wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:08 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:22 am
Doc wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:24 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:03 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:53 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:41 am


Warmongers like you never contributed to peace anywhere. All you do is killing and maiming. Unfortunately for people like you, warmongers are sometimes the first casualties of the wars they start...
Excuse me? The CCP are the ones grabbing territory as if they were the Nazi Third Reich
What territories are those? How big are they? And they belong to whom?...
South China Sea. Phillipines Vietnam Brunei Malaysia and Indonesia
Let's assume that China has no indisputable right to some of the islands/islets on the South China Sea. If it takes them over it will be at least a doubtful action, which may infringe on other countries (disputed) rights. But that will not endanger any of the neighbouring countries. And any local resources, such as gas and oil, are no longer of vital importance to anyone, seeing that we are moving towards a greener economy. To China those islands are important because they will enable it to better protect its southern flank.

The funny thing is that while people make a fuss about those minor possible violations by China, they tend to ignore, for instance, Israel's taking over the Golan and much of the West Bank. It's not the potential land grab in the South China Sea that bothers those people, but the fact that it is China doing it. And such possible violations by China may be used as an argument against Chinese evil intentions. Has anyone ever asked what entitled the US to grab Hawaii? Did the Hawaiian people welcome the destruction of their independence? Do Americans condemn the way the US stole huge territories from Mexico? Some people may dislike China and its regime, but as a major power China is in no way worse than the US. Of course Americans and those who identify with the Anglo empire (the Five Eyes...) may regret being sidelined by China, but I expect much of the world to welcome such a change.
The world court has already ruled against the CCP so there is no need to assume anything Taking the territory of those countries is endangering them as the CCP is taking their future away from them. The CCP policies are not only stripping the resources of the countries in question but they are stripping the resources of the world. Including the fish of the South China Sea.



As far as what you have to say here about the South China sea it is all CCP propaganda. IE it is not true
[/quote]

Doc,

Sertorio is a hard core communist. So he is impenetrable to facts. He is only interested in his agenda of bringing down the US.
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Doc
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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by Doc » Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:24 pm

cassowary wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:36 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:08 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:22 am
Doc wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:24 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:03 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:53 pm


Excuse me? The CCP are the ones grabbing territory as if they were the Nazi Third Reich
What territories are those? How big are they? And they belong to whom?...
South China Sea. Phillipines Vietnam Brunei Malaysia and Indonesia
Let's assume that China has no indisputable right to some of the islands/islets on the South China Sea. If it takes them over it will be at least a doubtful action, which may infringe on other countries (disputed) rights. But that will not endanger any of the neighbouring countries. And any local resources, such as gas and oil, are no longer of vital importance to anyone, seeing that we are moving towards a greener economy. To China those islands are important because they will enable it to better protect its southern flank.

The funny thing is that while people make a fuss about those minor possible violations by China, they tend to ignore, for instance, Israel's taking over the Golan and much of the West Bank. It's not the potential land grab in the South China Sea that bothers those people, but the fact that it is China doing it. And such possible violations by China may be used as an argument against Chinese evil intentions. Has anyone ever asked what entitled the US to grab Hawaii? Did the Hawaiian people welcome the destruction of their independence? Do Americans condemn the way the US stole huge territories from Mexico? Some people may dislike China and its regime, but as a major power China is in no way worse than the US. Of course Americans and those who identify with the Anglo empire (the Five Eyes...) may regret being sidelined by China, but I expect much of the world to welcome such a change.
The world court has already ruled against the CCP so there is no need to assume anything Taking the territory of those countries is endangering them as the CCP is taking their future away from them. The CCP policies are not only stripping the resources of the countries in question but they are stripping the resources of the world. Including the fish of the South China Sea.



As far as what you have to say here about the South China sea it is all CCP propaganda. IE it is not true
Doc,

Sertorio is a hard core communist. So he is impenetrable to facts. He is only interested in his agenda of bringing down the US.
[/quote]

I am pretty sure he isn't a communist. A socialist certainly. But not a communist. Every Communist I have ever known was not at all sincere. They would tell the most outrageous lies about the fantasy world of Communism and communist economics. Granted they were all Maoists. When I say sincere I mean no sane person would actually believe the things they said they believe. Sertorio isn't wrong about everything he says. I would like to know how he came to believe the things he is wrong about. That might be an interesting story. But that is his business so if he doesn't want to share I wouldn't hold it against him.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by Sertorio » Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:11 am

Doc wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:24 pm
cassowary wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:36 pm

Doc,

Sertorio is a hard core communist. So he is impenetrable to facts. He is only interested in his agenda of bringing down the US.
I am pretty sure he isn't a communist. A socialist certainly. But not a communist. Every Communist I have ever known was not at all sincere. They would tell the most outrageous lies about the fantasy world of Communism and communist economics. Granted they were all Maoists. When I say sincere I mean no sane person would actually believe the things they said they believe. Sertorio isn't wrong about everything he says. I would like to know how he came to believe the things he is wrong about. That might be an interesting story. But that is his business so if he doesn't want to share I wouldn't hold it against him.
Cass calls me a communist just because he doesn't want to make the effort of understanding what I am talking about. Calling me communist is a sign of mental incapacity from him. In other times he would call me a "heathen" or a "fascist" because that would enable him to turn off his brain and avoid addressing the real issues.

I may be wrong about some things, but I am not wrong in seeing in the US desperate policies the sign of a greedy, hegemonic power, which cannot accept that it no longer calls the shots, and no longer can leech the rest of the world for its sole benefit. Just like the UK in the 19th century, the US thinks it has the right of imposing its will and destroying all those who oppose it. The US is decadent, and its decadence is as ugly to see as Rome's decadence in the 5th century. Unable to build anything anymore, the US can only destroy or threaten to destroy. Which is pathetic because, with the exception of its nuclear weapons, the US no longer has the means to impose its will. Its soldiers - with a few exceptions - will not fight, and when they fight they cannot win. As we saw in Vietnam and in Afghanistan, and would see again in Iran, in the South China Sea, or in the Ukraine. The best thing would be for Americans to recognize this and silently withdraw to their home country, in peace, and dedicated to solving the many problems of the American society. The misguided idea that they are God's chosen people makes it hard for Americans to accept their irrelevancy, and they may prefer to go down fighting. Hopefully they will not drag the rest of us in their final journey to oblivion...And then, just like China, maybe the US will again become relevant, after a couple centuries in limbo.

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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by cassowary » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:15 am

Doc wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:24 pm


I am pretty sure he isn't a communist. A socialist certainly. But not a communist. Every Communist I have ever known was not at all sincere. They would tell the most outrageous lies about the fantasy world of Communism and communist economics. Granted they were all Maoists. When I say sincere I mean no sane person would actually believe the things they said they believe.
That's exactly like Sertorio. He said things no sane person believe. He tells outrageous lies and lives in a fantasy world. There is only a thin line between a Socialist and a Communist. In fact, the two words are almost interchangeable.
The socialist mode of production, also referred to as the communist mode of production, the lower-stage of communism[1] or simply socialism as Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels used the terms communism and socialism interchangeably, ...
Why do you think the Chinese Communist Party claims to be practicing Socialism with Chinese characteristics? Why do you think the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) called the Soviet Union, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics?

That's because Socialists/Communists believe that Socialism is the stage just before Communism. That is why I prefer to the ideology as Socialism/Communism. The two are too closely intwined to separate.
Sertorio isn't wrong about everything he says. I would like to know how he came to believe the things he is wrong about. That might be an interesting story. But that is his business so if he doesn't want to share I wouldn't hold it against him.
Well, so do I. I have said many times before Sertorio is the most fascinating person here in this forum. I have some speculations:

1)Maybe he mispent his youth on Socialist/Communist activities when he could have used his intelligence on persuing a lucrative career like his peers. So, in his old age, it is painful to admit to himself that he is wrong. So he clings to Socialism and anti-Americanism just as oBUMa accused conservatives of clinging to guns and religion.

2)Maybe he is a troll working for the IRA.

3)Maybe he is the illegitimate son of an American serviceman who abandoned his mother and himself when he was young. So he has a resentment at Americans which found ideological expression in his Socialist/Communist activism.
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Sertorio
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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by Sertorio » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:30 am

cassowary wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:15 am

3)Maybe he is the illegitimate son of an American serviceman who abandoned his mother and himself when he was young. So he has a resentment at Americans which found ideological expression in his Socialist/Communist activism.
There are no illegitimate children of American servicemen, as they are all impotent... :lol:

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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by cassowary » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:41 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:11 am

Cass calls me a communist just because he doesn't want to make the effort of understanding what I am talking about. Calling me communist is a sign of mental incapacity from him. In other times he would call me a "heathen" or a "fascist" because that would enable him to turn off his brain and avoid addressing the real issues.

I may be wrong about some things, but I am not wrong in seeing in the US desperate policies the sign of a greedy, hegemonic power, which cannot accept that it no longer calls the shots, and no longer can leech the rest of the world for its sole benefit. Just like the UK in the 19th century, the US thinks it has the right of imposing its will and destroying all those who oppose it. The US is decadent, and its decadence is as ugly to see as Rome's decadence in the 5th century. Unable to build anything anymore, the US can only destroy or threaten to destroy. Which is pathetic because, with the exception of its nuclear weapons, the US no longer has the means to impose its will. Its soldiers - with a few exceptions - will not fight, and when they fight they cannot win. As we saw in Vietnam and in Afghanistan, and would see again in Iran, in the South China Sea, or in the Ukraine. The best thing would be for Americans to recognize this and silently withdraw to their home country, in peace, and dedicated to solving the many problems of the American society. The misguided idea that they are God's chosen people makes it hard for Americans to accept their irrelevancy, and they may prefer to go down fighting. Hopefully they will not drag the rest of us in their final journey to oblivion...And then, just like China, maybe the US will again become relevant, after a couple centuries in limbo.
Sertorio,

But the problem is that most people around the world don't see the US that way. The US is the protector of Europe from Russia. The East Europeans certainly want the US to stay. Japan and S Korea welcome US troops to defend them from North Korea and China. What you refuse to see is that the US troops are there at the request of their hosts.

When they are no longer needed, they will ask the US to go home and the US will leave. A good example is the Philippines which asked the US to vacate Subic Bay and Clarke Airfield which they used for decades. I have pointed this out to you many times before. But you simply ignored it and repeat your nonsense again.

Try to refute what I said. Did the Philippines not ask the US to leave? Did the US not leave? So this means that US troops are not in Europe, Japan and elsewhere by force buy by the permission and welcome of their hosts. So this means that, contrary to what you said, the world sees the US as their protector and not their colonial master.

Try to refute this. Don't just ignore it and repeat your nonsense again.

..............................................................................................................

All you said sounded like Cold War Era Soviet Union propaganda. That is why I called you a Communist/Socialist.
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Doc
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Re: Philippines government learns that it has only one ally to back it against China.

Post by Doc » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:03 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:11 am
Doc wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:24 pm
cassowary wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:36 pm

Doc,

Sertorio is a hard core communist. So he is impenetrable to facts. He is only interested in his agenda of bringing down the US.
I am pretty sure he isn't a communist. A socialist certainly. But not a communist. Every Communist I have ever known was not at all sincere. They would tell the most outrageous lies about the fantasy world of Communism and communist economics. Granted they were all Maoists. When I say sincere I mean no sane person would actually believe the things they said they believe. Sertorio isn't wrong about everything he says. I would like to know how he came to believe the things he is wrong about. That might be an interesting story. But that is his business so if he doesn't want to share I wouldn't hold it against him.
Cass calls me a communist just because he doesn't want to make the effort of understanding what I am talking about. Calling me communist is a sign of mental incapacity from him. In other times he would call me a "heathen" or a "fascist" because that would enable him to turn off his brain and avoid addressing the real issues.
I think Cass's mental capacity is fine. [/quote]

I may be wrong about some things, but I am not wrong in seeing in the US desperate policies the sign of a greedy, hegemonic power, which cannot accept that it no longer calls the shots, and no longer can leech the rest of the world for its sole benefit. Just like the UK in the 19th century, the US thinks it has the right of imposing its will and destroying all those who oppose it. The US is decadent, and its decadence is as ugly to see as Rome's decadence in the 5th century. Unable to build anything anymore, the US can only destroy or threaten to destroy. Which is pathetic because, with the exception of its nuclear weapons, the US no longer has the means to impose its will. Its soldiers - with a few exceptions - will not fight, and when they fight they cannot win. As we saw in Vietnam and in Afghanistan, and would see again in Iran, in the South China Sea, or in the Ukraine. The best thing would be for Americans to recognize this and silently withdraw to their home country, in peace, and dedicated to solving the many problems of the American society. The misguided idea that they are God's chosen people makes it hard for Americans to accept their irrelevancy, and they may prefer to go down fighting. Hopefully they will not drag the rest of us in their final journey to oblivion...And then, just like China, maybe the US will again become relevant, after a couple centuries in limbo.
[/quote]

Bismark thought Americans were God's chosen people. However not so many Americans believe in God these days.

What you are seeing coming out of the US is a soft coup. Most people even the Republican politicians do not realize how serious the DC establishment is about taking permanent power. that they never have to give up


The main person behind this is mentioned in this video



The motive is power and riches



Not just the US but the entire west.



"Are you surprised how strong the sustainability movement has been throughout the pandemic?"

No one gets help from government unless they adhere to "Green sustainability" IE "Either our way to go away and die"

"Why don't we digitize our educational system" I read that is centralized agenda taught to all children.

"We own and control everything You own nothing AND YOU VILL BE HAPPY" The perfect fusion of large multinational corporations and government into a fascist world.

What you are seeing in the world today is an attempt to re-fight Nazi Germany VS the Soviet Union in a much more diverse and inclusive way.

Putin kills his political opposition and jails them. The first time he came to the US I heard him on the radio doing an interview where he plainly stated that he was not a fan of democracy. I was never a fan of Bill Clinton's European polices concerning Russia. AS much as anything that is how Russia ended up with Putin as its dictator.

The CCP has little regard for its own citizens. TO THE POINT where when the CCP-Virus comes around they physically weld shut the doors of apartment buildings where they suspect infection making apartment buildings living tombs for their own citizens. Among many many other wrongs.

You and others can rationalize this anyway you want. But in the end you will understand your massive errors.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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