I fear for the future

Discussion of current events
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 5286
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: I fear for the future

Post by Doc » Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:42 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:17 am
Doc wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:12 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:13 am
Doc wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:58 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:52 am

The US has as much right to interfere with the issues of Taiwan, Hong Kong, the Uighurs and Tibet as China would have the right to interfere with the illegal take over of Hawaii by the US, the genocide against native Americans, their seclusion in reservations or the racist killings in the US. In international relations the golden rule is respect for other countries sovereignty and the use of diplomacy in settling conflicts. But the US only knows one rule: "Might is Right". Except that the US is no longer mighty enough to do as it pleases...
What is going on in China under the CCP regime is On going GENOCIDE. Are you a Genocide denier ? Taiwan is a US ally. The South China Sea has been ruled by the World Court not to belong to China.But the CCP clearly believes that MIGHT IS RIGHT in ignoring the world in this.

The CCP Virus looks to be an attempt at a Bio Warfare weapon that leaked out a a poorly run lab.

Honestly I am thinking of suing the CCP. They are a political party not a government and therefore do not fall under sovereign immunity. I think everyone in the world should sue.
The US can only be allied with a sovereign state, which Taiwan is not. By having recognized the "one China" concept the US has recognized that Taiwan is not a sovereign state. What would you say if China considered itself as the ally of the Hawaiians who demand the independence of Hawaii?

China has never claimed the South China Sea, only the rights associated to sovereignty over land (islands) situated there. Freedom of navigation (outside the 12 nautical mile limit) is guaranteed by China.

There is no ongoing genocide in China. Probably Uyghurs feel safer in China than black people in the US...
AT the time the US switched the CCP agreed to the two systems Just like they agreed with the UK over Hong Kong. We all know how the latter worked out. ANd I did not see the CCP objecting over Hong Kong being given access to the world's banking system and favorable treatment in it by the US
The US cannot recognize the right to self-determination to the Taiwanese and deny it to the people of Crimea... But by now we are used to the peculiar way Americans decide what is right and what is wrong...
How morally unattached of you
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 4764
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: I fear for the future

Post by cassowary » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:35 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:17 am
Doc wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:12 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:13 am
Doc wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:58 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:52 am

The US has as much right to interfere with the issues of Taiwan, Hong Kong, the Uighurs and Tibet as China would have the right to interfere with the illegal take over of Hawaii by the US, the genocide against native Americans, their seclusion in reservations or the racist killings in the US. In international relations the golden rule is respect for other countries sovereignty and the use of diplomacy in settling conflicts. But the US only knows one rule: "Might is Right". Except that the US is no longer mighty enough to do as it pleases...
What is going on in China under the CCP regime is On going GENOCIDE. Are you a Genocide denier ? Taiwan is a US ally. The South China Sea has been ruled by the World Court not to belong to China.But the CCP clearly believes that MIGHT IS RIGHT in ignoring the world in this.

The CCP Virus looks to be an attempt at a Bio Warfare weapon that leaked out a a poorly run lab.

Honestly I am thinking of suing the CCP. They are a political party not a government and therefore do not fall under sovereign immunity. I think everyone in the world should sue.
The US can only be allied with a sovereign state, which Taiwan is not. By having recognized the "one China" concept the US has recognized that Taiwan is not a sovereign state. What would you say if China considered itself as the ally of the Hawaiians who demand the independence of Hawaii?

China has never claimed the South China Sea, only the rights associated to sovereignty over land (islands) situated there. Freedom of navigation (outside the 12 nautical mile limit) is guaranteed by China.

There is no ongoing genocide in China. Probably Uyghurs feel safer in China than black people in the US...
AT the time the US switched the CCP agreed to the two systems Just like they agreed with the UK over Hong Kong. We all know how the latter worked out. ANd I did not see the CCP objecting over Hong Kong being given access to the world's banking system and favorable treatment in it by the US
The US cannot recognize the right to self-determination to the Taiwanese and deny it to the people of Crimea... But by now we are used to the peculiar way Americans decide what is right and what is wrong...
I think the US just wants to presever Taiwanese democracy. It has always called for the peaceful reunification of the two Chinas. But of course, the Chinese of Taiwan does not want to be ruled by a totalitarian dictatorship. You are on the side of thugs again.
The Imp :D

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: I fear for the future

Post by Sertorio » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:41 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:35 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:17 am
Doc wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:12 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:13 am
Doc wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:58 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:52 am

The US has as much right to interfere with the issues of Taiwan, Hong Kong, the Uighurs and Tibet as China would have the right to interfere with the illegal take over of Hawaii by the US, the genocide against native Americans, their seclusion in reservations or the racist killings in the US. In international relations the golden rule is respect for other countries sovereignty and the use of diplomacy in settling conflicts. But the US only knows one rule: "Might is Right". Except that the US is no longer mighty enough to do as it pleases...
What is going on in China under the CCP regime is On going GENOCIDE. Are you a Genocide denier ? Taiwan is a US ally. The South China Sea has been ruled by the World Court not to belong to China.But the CCP clearly believes that MIGHT IS RIGHT in ignoring the world in this.

The CCP Virus looks to be an attempt at a Bio Warfare weapon that leaked out a a poorly run lab.

Honestly I am thinking of suing the CCP. They are a political party not a government and therefore do not fall under sovereign immunity. I think everyone in the world should sue.
The US can only be allied with a sovereign state, which Taiwan is not. By having recognized the "one China" concept the US has recognized that Taiwan is not a sovereign state. What would you say if China considered itself as the ally of the Hawaiians who demand the independence of Hawaii?

China has never claimed the South China Sea, only the rights associated to sovereignty over land (islands) situated there. Freedom of navigation (outside the 12 nautical mile limit) is guaranteed by China.

There is no ongoing genocide in China. Probably Uyghurs feel safer in China than black people in the US...
AT the time the US switched the CCP agreed to the two systems Just like they agreed with the UK over Hong Kong. We all know how the latter worked out. ANd I did not see the CCP objecting over Hong Kong being given access to the world's banking system and favorable treatment in it by the US
The US cannot recognize the right to self-determination to the Taiwanese and deny it to the people of Crimea... But by now we are used to the peculiar way Americans decide what is right and what is wrong...
I think the US just wants to presever Taiwanese democracy. It has always called for the peaceful reunification of the two Chinas. But of course, the Chinese of Taiwan does not want to be ruled by a totalitarian dictatorship. You are on the side of thugs again.
That's none of America's business. That's up to the Taiwanese to negotiate with Beijing a formula which preserves the local democratic institutions. But that will never happen as long as the US keeps interfering in the affairs of another sovereign state. As usual, by their interference the US keeps getting the opposite of what they say they want...

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 4764
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: I fear for the future

Post by cassowary » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:16 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:41 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:35 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:17 am
Doc wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:12 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:13 am
Doc wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:58 pm


What is going on in China under the CCP regime is On going GENOCIDE. Are you a Genocide denier ? Taiwan is a US ally. The South China Sea has been ruled by the World Court not to belong to China.But the CCP clearly believes that MIGHT IS RIGHT in ignoring the world in this.

The CCP Virus looks to be an attempt at a Bio Warfare weapon that leaked out a a poorly run lab.

Honestly I am thinking of suing the CCP. They are a political party not a government and therefore do not fall under sovereign immunity. I think everyone in the world should sue.
The US can only be allied with a sovereign state, which Taiwan is not. By having recognized the "one China" concept the US has recognized that Taiwan is not a sovereign state. What would you say if China considered itself as the ally of the Hawaiians who demand the independence of Hawaii?

China has never claimed the South China Sea, only the rights associated to sovereignty over land (islands) situated there. Freedom of navigation (outside the 12 nautical mile limit) is guaranteed by China.

There is no ongoing genocide in China. Probably Uyghurs feel safer in China than black people in the US...
AT the time the US switched the CCP agreed to the two systems Just like they agreed with the UK over Hong Kong. We all know how the latter worked out. ANd I did not see the CCP objecting over Hong Kong being given access to the world's banking system and favorable treatment in it by the US
The US cannot recognize the right to self-determination to the Taiwanese and deny it to the people of Crimea... But by now we are used to the peculiar way Americans decide what is right and what is wrong...
I think the US just wants to presever Taiwanese democracy. It has always called for the peaceful reunification of the two Chinas. But of course, the Chinese of Taiwan does not want to be ruled by a totalitarian dictatorship. You are on the side of thugs again.
That's none of America's business. That's up to the Taiwanese to negotiate with Beijing a formula which preserves the local democratic institutions. But that will never happen as long as the US keeps interfering in the affairs of another sovereign state. As usual, by their interference the US keeps getting the opposite of what they say they want...
What rubbish you spout, Sertorio. You talk as if Beijing will allow Taiwan to keep its democracy. The CCP is totalitarian. That means it wants full control of Taiwan. Without America , Taiwan would have fallen.
The Imp :D

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: I fear for the future

Post by Sertorio » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:21 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:16 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:41 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:35 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:17 am
Doc wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:12 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:13 am


The US can only be allied with a sovereign state, which Taiwan is not. By having recognized the "one China" concept the US has recognized that Taiwan is not a sovereign state. What would you say if China considered itself as the ally of the Hawaiians who demand the independence of Hawaii?

China has never claimed the South China Sea, only the rights associated to sovereignty over land (islands) situated there. Freedom of navigation (outside the 12 nautical mile limit) is guaranteed by China.

There is no ongoing genocide in China. Probably Uyghurs feel safer in China than black people in the US...
AT the time the US switched the CCP agreed to the two systems Just like they agreed with the UK over Hong Kong. We all know how the latter worked out. ANd I did not see the CCP objecting over Hong Kong being given access to the world's banking system and favorable treatment in it by the US
The US cannot recognize the right to self-determination to the Taiwanese and deny it to the people of Crimea... But by now we are used to the peculiar way Americans decide what is right and what is wrong...
I think the US just wants to presever Taiwanese democracy. It has always called for the peaceful reunification of the two Chinas. But of course, the Chinese of Taiwan does not want to be ruled by a totalitarian dictatorship. You are on the side of thugs again.
That's none of America's business. That's up to the Taiwanese to negotiate with Beijing a formula which preserves the local democratic institutions. But that will never happen as long as the US keeps interfering in the affairs of another sovereign state. As usual, by their interference the US keeps getting the opposite of what they say they want...
What rubbish you spout, Sertorio. You talk as if Beijing will allow Taiwan to keep its democracy. The CCP is totalitarian. That means it wants full control of Taiwan. Without America , Taiwan would have fallen.
A five thousand year civilization has learned when to push and when to hold. Beijing would easily accept the preservation of Taiwan's freedoms in exchange for reunification, as it has a very long term view of China. It's barbarian countries like the US which must have immediate gratification.

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 4764
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: I fear for the future

Post by cassowary » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:02 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:21 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:16 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:41 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:35 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:17 am
Doc wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:12 am


AT the time the US switched the CCP agreed to the two systems Just like they agreed with the UK over Hong Kong. We all know how the latter worked out. ANd I did not see the CCP objecting over Hong Kong being given access to the world's banking system and favorable treatment in it by the US
The US cannot recognize the right to self-determination to the Taiwanese and deny it to the people of Crimea... But by now we are used to the peculiar way Americans decide what is right and what is wrong...
I think the US just wants to presever Taiwanese democracy. It has always called for the peaceful reunification of the two Chinas. But of course, the Chinese of Taiwan does not want to be ruled by a totalitarian dictatorship. You are on the side of thugs again.
That's none of America's business. That's up to the Taiwanese to negotiate with Beijing a formula which preserves the local democratic institutions. But that will never happen as long as the US keeps interfering in the affairs of another sovereign state. As usual, by their interference the US keeps getting the opposite of what they say they want...
What rubbish you spout, Sertorio. You talk as if Beijing will allow Taiwan to keep its democracy. The CCP is totalitarian. That means it wants full control of Taiwan. Without America , Taiwan would have fallen.
A five thousand year civilization has learned when to push and when to hold. Beijing would easily accept the preservation of Taiwan's freedoms in exchange for reunification, as it has a very long term view of China. It's barbarian countries like the US which must have immediate gratification.
Rubbish. How little you know of communist China 🇨🇳. It fears democracy. Rule by the people has universal appeal regardless of the culture. It does not want the Democratic bug to spread in China.
The Imp :D

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: I fear for the future

Post by Sertorio » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:58 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:02 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:21 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:16 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:41 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:35 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:17 am


The US cannot recognize the right to self-determination to the Taiwanese and deny it to the people of Crimea... But by now we are used to the peculiar way Americans decide what is right and what is wrong...
I think the US just wants to presever Taiwanese democracy. It has always called for the peaceful reunification of the two Chinas. But of course, the Chinese of Taiwan does not want to be ruled by a totalitarian dictatorship. You are on the side of thugs again.
That's none of America's business. That's up to the Taiwanese to negotiate with Beijing a formula which preserves the local democratic institutions. But that will never happen as long as the US keeps interfering in the affairs of another sovereign state. As usual, by their interference the US keeps getting the opposite of what they say they want...
What rubbish you spout, Sertorio. You talk as if Beijing will allow Taiwan to keep its democracy. The CCP is totalitarian. That means it wants full control of Taiwan. Without America , Taiwan would have fallen.
A five thousand year civilization has learned when to push and when to hold. Beijing would easily accept the preservation of Taiwan's freedoms in exchange for reunification, as it has a very long term view of China. It's barbarian countries like the US which must have immediate gratification.
Rubbish. How little you know of communist China 🇨🇳. It fears democracy. Rule by the people has universal appeal regardless of the culture. It does not want the Democratic bug to spread in China.
China has lived 5,000 years without western type democracy, which doesn't mean power in China is not legitimate. Legitimacy has several ways to establish itself, and our democracy is only one of them. If the Chinese ever feel that they are not being ruled in a satisfactory manner, they will take whatever measures they see fit to correct the situation. They certainly do not need Americans to tell them what to do.

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 4764
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: I fear for the future

Post by cassowary » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:29 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:58 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:02 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:21 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:16 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:41 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:35 am


I think the US just wants to presever Taiwanese democracy. It has always called for the peaceful reunification of the two Chinas. But of course, the Chinese of Taiwan does not want to be ruled by a totalitarian dictatorship. You are on the side of thugs again.
That's none of America's business. That's up to the Taiwanese to negotiate with Beijing a formula which preserves the local democratic institutions. But that will never happen as long as the US keeps interfering in the affairs of another sovereign state. As usual, by their interference the US keeps getting the opposite of what they say they want...
What rubbish you spout, Sertorio. You talk as if Beijing will allow Taiwan to keep its democracy. The CCP is totalitarian. That means it wants full control of Taiwan. Without America , Taiwan would have fallen.
A five thousand year civilization has learned when to push and when to hold. Beijing would easily accept the preservation of Taiwan's freedoms in exchange for reunification, as it has a very long term view of China. It's barbarian countries like the US which must have immediate gratification.
Rubbish. How little you know of communist China 🇨🇳. It fears democracy. Rule by the people has universal appeal regardless of the culture. It does not want the Democratic bug to spread in China.
China has lived 5,000 years without western type democracy, which doesn't mean power in China is not legitimate. Legitimacy has several ways to establish itself, and our democracy is only one of them. If the Chinese ever feel that they are not being ruled in a satisfactory manner, they will take whatever measures they see fit to correct the situation. They certainly do not need Americans to tell them what to do.
Ah, I see. YOu are defending a government that locks up Falungong and Uighurs simply for their beliefs. Hitler and Stalin would be proud of you. Anything for Socialism.

I could also say George Washington and his colleagues had lived under monarchy for thousands of years. No need for the French to help them in the American Revolution. The Portuguese had been living under the dictatorship of Kings for centuries. No need for the 1910 Republican Revolution.

You are in effect saying that the Chinese are not smart enough to progress beyond dictatorships.
The Imp :D

neverfail
Posts: 6593
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: I fear for the future

Post by neverfail » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:32 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:41 am
That's up to the Taiwanese to negotiate with Beijing a formula which preserves the local democratic institutions.
Just like the one that Beijing recently so blatantly dishonoured in Hong Kong? The Taiwanese would never be so stupid, Sertorio.

neverfail
Posts: 6593
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: I fear for the future

Post by neverfail » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:06 pm

Sorry Cass but I have to partly disagree.
cassowary wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:35 am
I think the US just wants to presever Taiwanese democracy.
Cassowary, I have seen too many instances over the years of US government policy lending support to tyrannies to believe they would now care a shit about Taiwan democracy - except insofar as this serves as a useful propaganda tool. More likely US policymakers treasure Taiwan for its geostrategic position off the coast of mainland Chinma and adjacent to Japan and the Philippines.

The USA (as I have pointed out on this website before) has placed itself in a contradictory position re. Taiwan. On the one hand it recognises Taiwan as being part of China - an acknowledgement that every soverign country that wants to do business with the PRC has to make for the sake of mutual recognition. (Indeed, for foreign countries that are of lesser value to Beijing they insist of the wording "Taiwan is a PROVINCE of China" - but they seem to have let the USA off lightly by permitting it a more nebulous wording formula). But on the other hand the USA continues to militarially shelter it as a defacto protectorite. So far the PRC government has tolerated that contradictory posture in silence but one of these days (possibly sooner rather than later) I believe that Beijing will finally challenge the US on this: where do you Americans really stand? I dread to contemplate the fallout in international relations that will follow once that happens.

It has always called for the peaceful reunification of the two Chinas.
I do not know for how long it has been doing that for but certainly not when the Chinese civil war was raging on the mainland when it provided massive amounts of military aid to the KMT - most of it squandered.

But of course, the Chinese of Taiwan does not want to be ruled by a totalitarian dictatorship.
Absolutely right there, Cass: and can you blame them?

Post Reply