How Much to Oppose Islam?

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Milo
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How Much to Oppose Islam?

Post by Milo » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:08 am

Maybe a bit of a pivot to the Spenglerian from another thread.

Islam confronts modern civilization with a challenge like no other in history: Few, if any, of the considerations for having children in a considered way apply to Muslims. The Muslim world cares little for education or prosperity. When they immigrate, they seem to remain ignorant, poor and insular, yet fecund.

Islamic conquest by force is not even a remote possibility. Terrorism is a minuscule threat. But can Muslims just rape their way into dominating the world?

Do the forces of civilization have the tools needed to oppose this?

I think we do but it’s looking closer than I feel comfortable with.

Sometimes I could almost support Trump because at least he opposed Islam. Even he not as much as I would, if I could get away with it.

And maybe if so many weren’t wringing their hands about Aung San Suu Kyi not supporting Muslims enough, we would not have such a dire situation in Myanmar, an emerging secular democracy abutted by some notable Islamic savagery.

Maybe too, it actually is China’s business if they want to suppress Islam and we should not restrict trade with them on that basis, although that’s pretty moot, given the many other reasons!

But this is a problem that literally no country can confront officially and no person can even discuss in a public way without serious threats.

In many ways I think this is the question of our age: can we oppose Islam when we officially can’t?

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Sertorio
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Re: How Much to Oppose Islam?

Post by Sertorio » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:58 am

Milo wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:08 am
Maybe a bit of a pivot to the Spenglerian from another thread.

Islam confronts modern civilization with a challenge like no other in history: Few, if any, of the considerations for having children in a considered way apply to Muslims. The Muslim world cares little for education or prosperity. When they immigrate, they seem to remain ignorant, poor and insular, yet fecund.

Islamic conquest by force is not even a remote possibility. Terrorism is a minuscule threat. But can Muslims just rape their way into dominating the world?

Do the forces of civilization have the tools needed to oppose this?

I think we do but it’s looking closer than I feel comfortable with.

Sometimes I could almost support Trump because at least he opposed Islam. Even he not as much as I would, if I could get away with it.

And maybe if so many weren’t wringing their hands about Aung San Suu Kyi not supporting Muslims enough, we would not have such a dire situation in Myanmar, an emerging secular democracy abutted by some notable Islamic savagery.

Maybe too, it actually is China’s business if they want to suppress Islam and we should not restrict trade with them on that basis, although that’s pretty moot, given the many other reasons!

But this is a problem that literally no country can confront officially and no person can even discuss in a public way without serious threats.

In many ways I think this is the question of our age: can we oppose Islam when we officially can’t?
I don't think that we need to oppose Islam as such, but we do need to obliterate fundamentalist Islam, if necessary by waging war against those who support it. And that starts with Saudi Arabia and maybe Iran. And maybe even Turkey...

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Doc
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Re: How Much to Oppose Islam?

Post by Doc » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:07 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:58 am
Milo wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:08 am
Maybe a bit of a pivot to the Spenglerian from another thread.

Islam confronts modern civilization with a challenge like no other in history: Few, if any, of the considerations for having children in a considered way apply to Muslims. The Muslim world cares little for education or prosperity. When they immigrate, they seem to remain ignorant, poor and insular, yet fecund.

Islamic conquest by force is not even a remote possibility. Terrorism is a minuscule threat. But can Muslims just rape their way into dominating the world?

Do the forces of civilization have the tools needed to oppose this?

I think we do but it’s looking closer than I feel comfortable with.

Sometimes I could almost support Trump because at least he opposed Islam. Even he not as much as I would, if I could get away with it.

And maybe if so many weren’t wringing their hands about Aung San Suu Kyi not supporting Muslims enough, we would not have such a dire situation in Myanmar, an emerging secular democracy abutted by some notable Islamic savagery.

Maybe too, it actually is China’s business if they want to suppress Islam and we should not restrict trade with them on that basis, although that’s pretty moot, given the many other reasons!

But this is a problem that literally no country can confront officially and no person can even discuss in a public way without serious threats.

In many ways I think this is the question of our age: can we oppose Islam when we officially can’t?
I don't think that we need to oppose Islam as such, but we do need to obliterate fundamentalist Islam, if necessary by waging war against those who support it. And that starts with Saudi Arabia and maybe Iran. And maybe even Turkey...
I think that we need to make it harder for islamists to immigrate to the west. In the US I believe that 2 out of 3 Muslims that immigrate to the US return to where they came from. That is due to them feeling their beliefs are incompatible with American society. Much the way I would probably feel if I moved to Saudi Arabia. They tried and it did not work out. I have no problem with that. They are honest about it.

My father met a woman from Bosnia once. He asked her where she came from. She said "Bisnia" and my father said "Bosinia is a good place to be *from*"

There are some that come from Islamic countries that instead of being honest stay for the money and life style but want change here to be like where they came from. I have a problem with that.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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cassowary
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Re: How Much to Oppose Islam?

Post by cassowary » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:32 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:08 am
Maybe a bit of a pivot to the Spenglerian from another thread.

Islam confronts modern civilization with a challenge like no other in history: Few, if any, of the considerations for having children in a considered way apply to Muslims. The Muslim world cares little for education or prosperity. When they immigrate, they seem to remain ignorant, poor and insular, yet fecund.

Islamic conquest by force is not even a remote possibility. Terrorism is a minuscule threat. But can Muslims just rape their way into dominating the world?

Do the forces of civilization have the tools needed to oppose this?

I think we do but it’s looking closer than I feel comfortable with.

Sometimes I could almost support Trump because at least he opposed Islam. Even he not as much as I would, if I could get away with it.

And maybe if so many weren’t wringing their hands about Aung San Suu Kyi not supporting Muslims enough, we would not have such a dire situation in Myanmar, an emerging secular democracy abutted by some notable Islamic savagery.

Maybe too, it actually is China’s business if they want to suppress Islam and we should not restrict trade with them on that basis, although that’s pretty moot, given the many other reasons!

But this is a problem that literally no country can confront officially and no person can even discuss in a public way without serious threats.

In many ways I think this is the question of our age: can we oppose Islam when we officially can’t?
The only effect ways to confront Islam are unacceptable to western democracies. That's what being done in Myammar and China. You have to choose - preserve your values and let Islam flourish in your midst. Or abandon your values and accept eventual Islamic takeover which also results in the destruction of your humane values.
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Jim the Moron
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Re: How Much to Oppose Islam?

Post by Jim the Moron » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:09 am

Civilized people must oppose Islam by whatever means necessary to eliminate threats such as the Syrian immigrant Muslim who shot up the grocery in Colorado a couple of days ago.

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cassowary
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Re: How Much to Oppose Islam?

Post by cassowary » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:31 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:09 am
Civilized people must oppose Islam by whatever means necessary to eliminate threats such as the Syrian immigrant Muslim who shot up the grocery in Colorado a couple of days ago.
If you simply ban immigration from Muslim countries, that would be good enough.
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Sertorio
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Re: How Much to Oppose Islam?

Post by Sertorio » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:55 am

cassowary wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:31 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:09 am
Civilized people must oppose Islam by whatever means necessary to eliminate threats such as the Syrian immigrant Muslim who shot up the grocery in Colorado a couple of days ago.
If you simply ban immigration from Muslim countries, that would be good enough.
I still think that there are civilized Muslims, so we should be very careful about generalizations.

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Doc
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Re: How Much to Oppose Islam?

Post by Doc » Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:20 am

Milo wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:08 am
Maybe a bit of a pivot to the Spenglerian from another thread.

Islam confronts modern civilization with a challenge like no other in history: Few, if any, of the considerations for having children in a considered way apply to Muslims. The Muslim world cares little for education or prosperity. When they immigrate, they seem to remain ignorant, poor and insular, yet fecund.

Islamic conquest by force is not even a remote possibility. Terrorism is a minuscule threat. But can Muslims just rape their way into dominating the world?

Do the forces of civilization have the tools needed to oppose this?

I think we do but it’s looking closer than I feel comfortable with.

Sometimes I could almost support Trump because at least he opposed Islam. Even he not as much as I would, if I could get away with it.

And maybe if so many weren’t wringing their hands about Aung San Suu Kyi not supporting Muslims enough, we would not have such a dire situation in Myanmar, an emerging secular democracy abutted by some notable Islamic savagery.

Maybe too, it actually is China’s business if they want to suppress Islam and we should not restrict trade with them on that basis, although that’s pretty moot, given the many other reasons!

But this is a problem that literally no country can confront officially and no person can even discuss in a public way without serious threats.

In many ways I think this is the question of our age: can we oppose Islam when we officially can’t?
The Religion of "Peace" beats its women as an integral part of said religion.

I had an argument recently on Reddit One of the replies I got was:

"No woman has ever been beaten in Islam without consent (I.e being part of the Muslim faith), and if they were, they were clearly not Islamic enough to be part of the faith.

Education is key."

So in Islam beating women is like beating a dead horse. If they leave Islam in many Islamic countries they can be subject to death for leaving Islam. If they don't leave Islam they are agreeing to be beaten.

I never received so many down votes there and as I did in that thread.

I take it many in Islam believe that Islam needs to reform itself. But those that believe otherwise scare the crap out of them.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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cassowary
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Re: How Much to Oppose Islam?

Post by cassowary » Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:24 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:55 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:31 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:09 am
Civilized people must oppose Islam by whatever means necessary to eliminate threats such as the Syrian immigrant Muslim who shot up the grocery in Colorado a couple of days ago.
If you simply ban immigration from Muslim countries, that would be good enough.
I still think that there are civilized Muslims, so we should be very careful about generalizations.
Yes. that is true. I am living with three of them. They are good girls. But we don't know which ones are the bad ones who might kill you. Besides, their faith makes them backwards and holds the country back. Over here, they lag behind in education, insist on Sharia courts. Special provisions have to be made for them.

For example, they are allowed 4 wives in Singapore but the rest of us are only allowed one wife per man. In the army, they insist on separate kitchens to prepare halal meals. They insist in operating in a separate world. It divides the country. Why create problems for your future generation by letting them in?
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neverfail
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Re: How Much to Oppose Islam?

Post by neverfail » Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:42 pm

cassowary wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:24 am

Yes. that is true. I am living with three of them. They are good girls. But we don't know which ones are the bad ones who might kill you. Besides, their faith makes them backwards and holds the country back. Over here, they lag behind in education, insist on Sharia courts. Special provisions have to be made for them.
Cassowary;

I recall in past exchanges on this website you compared Islam to the old heathen religion of theinhabitants of Scandinavia: a warrior religion. (They became Vikings only when they went roving abroad seeking adventure and spoils). This propensity to give up on peaceful pursuits like farming and fishing at home from time to time and put their lives at risk at sea and on foreign shores was apparently driven by their religious conviction that Valhalla, inclusion in the hall of the gods forever in the afterlife, awaits the man who died with a sword in his hand.

Well, their descendents today are not a bit like the bloodthirsty savages their ancestors of 1,200 to 1,400 yeas ago are rembered as being. Todays Scandanavian peoples are considered as highly civilised. What facilitated that change? The gradual acceptance of Christianity by their Viking forebears.

Just try to imagine what could happen is the Islamic bloc could likewise be persuaded to become Christian? It gives you food for thought?

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