It begins - the roll back of democracy

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cassowary
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by cassowary » Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:05 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:42 am
Cass,

The only issue here is whether China can claim the islands or islets in the South China Sea. To tell you the truth, I don't know, but apparently no other country has better rights than China. So China took them. Like so many other countries have taken other pieces of real state throughout history. What right has the UK to Gibraltar or to the Malvinas? The right of conquest. And what right had the US to Hawaii? The same right of the stronger. Do other countries want to prevent China taking over those islands? Let them fight China, and let the strongest keep them... But because those countries are not strong enough, they want the US to do the fighting for them. Except that the US has no business in the area. They are intruders. And China will resist any US attempt to change the status quo. And I doubt the US will be able to prevail. Tough luck!...
China has no right to the open sea as you yourself said so many times. But it wants this territory.

China is behaving like the old European imperials in the 18th and 19th centuries. They include Portugal.

But Europe and the US no longer behave like that. After WWII, there was a big change of heart in the west. But this change of mindset has not happen in China. The new imperialist is China.

Actually, it’s not new. China had historically done the same as the European imperialists, sending armies into Korea, Vietnam and Central Asia since Roman times till the 19th century when it was defeated by western imperialists.

Now, you have to update yourself and forget the Marxist brainwashing of your youth. Today it is the Chinese who are the threatening imperialists and the US the defender of small nations.

I know you are still conditioned by your youthful brainwashing to think ill of the US. That remark that the US has no business in Asia is very telling. US presence is fully justified if Asian countries want it there to protect them.

It’s the same in Europe where most Europeans want the US to defend them from Russia. What do you mean by the remark about the US changing the status quo? The status quo all along was that the South China Sea was international waters as you said. It is China who wants to change the status quo by making it Chinese territory.
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by Sertorio » Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:02 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:05 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:42 am
Cass,

The only issue here is whether China can claim the islands or islets in the South China Sea. To tell you the truth, I don't know, but apparently no other country has better rights than China. So China took them. Like so many other countries have taken other pieces of real state throughout history. What right has the UK to Gibraltar or to the Malvinas? The right of conquest. And what right had the US to Hawaii? The same right of the stronger. Do other countries want to prevent China taking over those islands? Let them fight China, and let the strongest keep them... But because those countries are not strong enough, they want the US to do the fighting for them. Except that the US has no business in the area. They are intruders. And China will resist any US attempt to change the status quo. And I doubt the US will be able to prevail. Tough luck!...
China has no right to the open sea as you yourself said so many times. But it wants this territory.

China is behaving like the old European imperials in the 18th and 19th centuries. They include Portugal.

But Europe and the US no longer behave like that. After WWII, there was a big change of heart in the west. But this change of mindset has not happen in China. The new imperialist is China.

Actually, it’s not new. China had historically done the same as the European imperialists, sending armies into Korea, Vietnam and Central Asia since Roman times till the 19th century when it was defeated by western imperialists.

Now, you have to update yourself and forget the Marxist brainwashing of your youth. Today it is the Chinese who are the threatening imperialists and the US the defender of small nations.

I know you are still conditioned by your youthful brainwashing to think ill of the US. That remark that the US has no business in Asia is very telling. US presence is fully justified if Asian countries want it there to protect them.

It’s the same in Europe where most Europeans want the US to defend them from Russia. What do you mean by the remark about the US changing the status quo? The status quo all along was that the South China Sea was international waters as you said. It is China who wants to change the status quo by making it Chinese territory.
Ridiculous! Russia does not threaten us in anyway. The danger to Europe comes from the US and their undesirable military presence among us. Russia is a friend of Europe.

neverfail
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by neverfail » Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:17 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:02 am
The danger to Europe comes from the US[/color] and their undesirable military presence among us. Russia is a friend of Europe.
You keep on repeating that over and over in your posts Sertorio, but mere repitition never makes something true.

The word "threaten" to me suggests the application of some kind of violence. So bearing in mind who it was who liberated western Continental Europe from the grip of Nazi German occupation towards the end of World War Two (along with holding the line against USSR occupation-as in eastern Europe over the decades that followed - please indicate how the USA is supposed to be "threatening" Europe today?

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Sertorio
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by Sertorio » Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:10 pm

neverfail wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:17 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:02 am
The danger to Europe comes from the US[/color] and their undesirable military presence among us. Russia is a friend of Europe.
You keep on repeating that over and over in your posts Sertorio, but mere repitition never makes something true.

The word "threaten" to me suggests the application of some kind of violence. So bearing in mind who it was who liberated western Continental Europe from the grip of Nazi German occupation towards the end of World War Two (along with holding the line against USSR occupation-as in eastern Europe over the decades that followed - please indicate how the USA is supposed to be "threatening" Europe today?
The war ended in 1945 - 75 years ago - and the Soviet Union ended in 1990. We haven't needed any help from the US for over 30 years, but there is no way to get rid of the American military presence in Europe and the American pressure to have us getting involved in conflicts which are none of our business. And we still have to deal with US interference in our affairs, such as Nord Stream 2 and our relations with Russia. Enough is enough!...

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Doc
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by Doc » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:50 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:41 am
Doc wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:32 am

The CCP has already had a verdict against their claims over the South China Sea in the world court which the CCP has completely ignored. The CCP is an illegal actor on the world stage that is flaunting international law. CASE CLOSED
The case is NOT closed because you and Cass keep saying that China wants to prevent commercial sailing through the South China Sea, which is not true. China's claims have nothing to do with the freedom of the seas.
Sertorio I am sure that if the CCP claimed it owned Mars you would whole heartedly agree due to ancient Chinese explorers having exploded Mars long ago. :roll:
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Sertorio
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by Sertorio » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:00 am

cassowary wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:37 pm
China is the imperialist power seeking territorial aggrandization and the US is protecting us - the nations of ASEAN from being bullied and controlled by China.
The following article will tell you how imperialist China is...
India & China begin to pull troops back from contested Himalayan lake, India’s defense minister confirms
https://www.rt.com/news/515227-india-ch ... ngagement/

India and China have agreed to pull back troops from the contested border in the western Himalayas, the Indian defense minister has said. The disengagement, reached after painstaking talks, has started from the Pangong lake area.

Speaking before the country’s parliament on Thursday, Defense Minister Rajnath Singh confirmed the breakthrough reached with Beijing on the months-long standoff at the disputed border, officially known as the Line of Actual Control (LAC).
(...)

The two nations share a some 3,500 km (2,200 miles) long border in the sparsely populated mountainous area. Since waging war back in 1962, India and China have been never able to agree on a proper border and maintain overlapping territorial claims in the region.
China and India may have fought over that small piece of land, but China uses diplomacy, not bombs, to solve this type of issues. Not a very imperialistic approach, I would say. If countries treat China with fairness, China will do likewise. Something Americans have never learned to do, as we see with North Korea, Iran and Venezuela. Not to speak of Cuba...

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cassowary
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by cassowary » Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:13 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:00 am
cassowary wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:37 pm
China is the imperialist power seeking territorial aggrandization and the US is protecting us - the nations of ASEAN from being bullied and controlled by China.
The following article will tell you how imperialist China is...
India & China begin to pull troops back from contested Himalayan lake, India’s defense minister confirms
https://www.rt.com/news/515227-india-ch ... ngagement/

India and China have agreed to pull back troops from the contested border in the western Himalayas, the Indian defense minister has said. The disengagement, reached after painstaking talks, has started from the Pangong lake area.

Speaking before the country’s parliament on Thursday, Defense Minister Rajnath Singh confirmed the breakthrough reached with Beijing on the months-long standoff at the disputed border, officially known as the Line of Actual Control (LAC).
(...)

The two nations share a some 3,500 km (2,200 miles) long border in the sparsely populated mountainous area. Since waging war back in 1962, India and China have been never able to agree on a proper border and maintain overlapping territorial claims in the region.
China and India may have fought over that small piece of land, but China uses diplomacy, not bombs, to solve this type of issues. Not a very imperialistic approach, I would say. If countries treat China with fairness, China will do likewise. Something Americans have never learned to do, as we see with North Korea, Iran and Venezuela. Not to speak of Cuba...
Remember what happened to the Philippines? There were troops from both countries on a disputed island. Both sides agreed to withdraw. Both did. Then Chinese troops came back. Let’s see what happens here.

.................................................................................................

N Korea? Iran? Venezuela? Cuba? All the nastiest, thuggish countries that appear near at the bottom of the Democracy Index. All were classified as authoritarian. You take their side against the US. Fascinating. As Lizzy girl said, “Lie down on that couch.”
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by Sertorio » Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:49 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:13 pm

N Korea? Iran? Venezuela? Cuba? All the nastiest, thuggish countries that appear near at the bottom of the Democracy Index. All were classified as authoritarian. You take their side against the US. Fascinating. As Lizzy girl said, “Lie down on that couch.”
Nasty they may be, but they aren't any of the US business. Changing them into democracies - if ever - must be the work of their peoples. The idea that the US has been empowered to "free" those peoples is preposterous. That's why I take their side against the US.

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cassowary
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by cassowary » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:54 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:49 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:13 pm

N Korea? Iran? Venezuela? Cuba? All the nastiest, thuggish countries that appear near at the bottom of the Democracy Index. All were classified as authoritarian. You take their side against the US. Fascinating. As Lizzy girl said, “Lie down on that couch.”
Nasty they may be, but they aren't any of the US business. Changing them into democracies - if ever - must be the work of their peoples. The idea that the US has been empowered to "free" those peoples is preposterous. That's why I take their side against the US.
But you call yourself a libertarian socialist. There is nothing libertarian about any of them. So you support these thuggish countries against the US, which is closer to libertarianism.

Lie down on that couch, Sertorio. Let Dr Cassowary help you. When someone cannot see the plain truth, it’s usually because the truth hurts.

Lie down on that couch and let us find out where your pain comes from.
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by Sertorio » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:48 am

cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:54 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:49 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:13 pm

N Korea? Iran? Venezuela? Cuba? All the nastiest, thuggish countries that appear near at the bottom of the Democracy Index. All were classified as authoritarian. You take their side against the US. Fascinating. As Lizzy girl said, “Lie down on that couch.”
Nasty they may be, but they aren't any of the US business. Changing them into democracies - if ever - must be the work of their peoples. The idea that the US has been empowered to "free" those peoples is preposterous. That's why I take their side against the US.
But you call yourself a libertarian socialist. There is nothing libertarian about any of them. So you support these thuggish countries against the US, which is closer to libertarianism.

Lie down on that couch, Sertorio. Let Dr Cassowary help you. When someone cannot see the plain truth, it’s usually because the truth hurts.

Lie down on that couch and let us find out where your pain comes from.
My pain, in the neck, is you!...Besides your suffering from Stockholm syndrome in respect of the US... My idea of liberty is letting people live as they wish, free of the malevolent who want to change the world in the name of their god, which is nothing but their excuse to exploit those they think are weaker than themselves. China and Russia are far from perfect, but if they free us from the American tyranny they will forever be the objects of my thanks...

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