It begins - the roll back of democracy

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cassowary
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It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by cassowary » Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:34 pm

Myammar military seizes power

As I said elsewhere, the rise of China will mean the roll back of democracy and freedom in the world. Now, ambitious military leaders in poor countries will seize power. They have nothing to fear from America because China will protect them.

Should the US recognise the new government or let the CCP wield total influence? During the last Cold War, the US had to compromise its principles in order to counter the USSR. Should it again do so to counter China?
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by Sertorio » Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:26 am

cassowary wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:34 pm
Myammar military seizes power

As I said elsewhere, the rise of China will mean the roll back of democracy and freedom in the world. Now, ambitious military leaders in poor countries will seize power. They have nothing to fear from America because China will protect them.

Should the US recognise the new government or let the CCP wield total influence? During the last Cold War, the US had to compromise its principles in order to counter the USSR. Should it again do so to counter China?
The amazing thing is that some countries are justified in their fear of America. What is America doing in Asia?...

neverfail
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by neverfail » Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:23 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:26 am
cassowary wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:34 pm
Myammar military seizes power

As I said elsewhere, the rise of China will mean the roll back of democracy and freedom in the world. Now, ambitious military leaders in poor countries will seize power. They have nothing to fear from America because China will protect them.

Should the US recognise the new government or let the CCP wield total influence? During the last Cold War, the US had to compromise its principles in order to counter the USSR. Should it again do so to counter China?
The amazing thing is that some countries are justified in their fear of America. What is America doing in Asia?...
Fear of America has nothing to do with the coup in Myanmar Sertorio. The Burmese military (it IS the private army of the Burmese ethnic group; not truly a Myanmar national army) have ruled the country ever since the British rashly ceded independence to the country in 1948 (and I would nominate Burma/Myanmar as one of the British Empire countries that the UK should NOT have granted soverign independence to on the basis of its sheer unfitness to govern itself - its track record of misrule since independence speaks for itself.)

In any case the Myanmar junta 5 years ago (probably for PR in order to gain a moticum of international respectability) allowed a national election to take place without itself relinquishing real power. The result was the fiction of a democracy with the army still being a law unto itself. One of the terms and conditions was that 25% of all the seats in parliament were non elected seats reserved for representatives of the armed forces.

Aung San Suu Kyi, the Burmese aristocrat who led the opposition from home detention captivity (she received the Nobel Peace Prize for it) was permitted to stand for parliament and when elected became the authority figure within. They had another election in November with the result that Aung San Suu Kyi's party increased its parliamentry representation to the point where it could govern in its own right.

The military did not like that result as it diminished their own grip on power. So the armed forces have now decided to despense with PR and grab back all of the power for themselves that they never fully let go of.

Yes, the PRC will protect them but NOT the country from ther Americans. What they will protect is an illicit military regime with a long history of lawless brutality from having to be called to account - as it rightly should be.

(But of course, none of this will likely cut any ice with you Sertorio since you prefer to dwell in a world of make- believe :twisted: : blaming all of the world's ills on the United States.)

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Sertorio
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by Sertorio » Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:03 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:23 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:26 am
cassowary wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:34 pm
Myammar military seizes power

As I said elsewhere, the rise of China will mean the roll back of democracy and freedom in the world. Now, ambitious military leaders in poor countries will seize power. They have nothing to fear from America because China will protect them.

Should the US recognise the new government or let the CCP wield total influence? During the last Cold War, the US had to compromise its principles in order to counter the USSR. Should it again do so to counter China?
The amazing thing is that some countries are justified in their fear of America. What is America doing in Asia?...
Fear of America has nothing to do with the coup in Myanmar Sertorio. The Burmese military (it IS the private army of the Burmese ethnic group; not truly a Myanmar national army) have ruled the country ever since the British rashly ceded independence to the country in 1948 (and I would nominate Burma/Myanmar as one of the British Empire countries that the UK should NOT have granted soverign independence to on the basis of its sheer unfitness to govern itself - its track record of misrule since independence speaks for itself.)

In any case the Myanmar junta 5 years ago (probably for PR in order to gain a moticum of international respectability) allowed a national election to take place without itself relinquishing real power. The result was the fiction of a democracy with the army still being a law unto itself. One of the terms and conditions was that 25% of all the seats in parliament were non elected seats reserved for representatives of the armed forces.

Aung San Suu Kyi, the Burmese aristocrat who led the opposition from home detention captivity (she received the Nobel Peace Prize for it) was permitted to stand for parliament and when elected became the authority figure within. They had another election in November with the result that Aung San Suu Kyi's party increased its parliamentry representation to the point where it could govern in its own right.

The military did not like that result as it diminished their own grip on power. So the armed forces have now decided to despense with PR and grab back all of the power for themselves that they never fully let go of.

Yes, the PRC will protect them but NOT the country from ther Americans. What they will protect is an illicit military regime with a long history of lawless brutality from having to be called to account - as it rightly should be.

(But of course, none of this will likely cut any ice with you Sertorio since you prefer to dwell in a world of make- believe :twisted: : blaming all of the world's ills on the United States.)
A country is only fit to govern itself when it bows to American interests, isn't it?...

When the military refuses to kowtow to the US, they are bad. When they do, as in Pinochet's Chile, they are good...

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cassowary
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by cassowary » Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:19 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:26 am
cassowary wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:34 pm
Myammar military seizes power

As I said elsewhere, the rise of China will mean the roll back of democracy and freedom in the world. Now, ambitious military leaders in poor countries will seize power. They have nothing to fear from America because China will protect them.

Should the US recognise the new government or let the CCP wield total influence? During the last Cold War, the US had to compromise its principles in order to counter the USSR. Should it again do so to counter China?
The amazing thing is that some countries are justified in their fear of America. What is America doing in Asia?...
Protecting the good guys from the bad guys. That's what America is doing in Asia. In this case, bad guy generals of Myammar have seized power from a democratically elected government knowing that bad guy China will support them.

Why are you and other leftists always supporting bad guys, Sertorio?
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by Sertorio » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:35 am

cassowary wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:19 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:26 am
cassowary wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:34 pm
Myammar military seizes power

As I said elsewhere, the rise of China will mean the roll back of democracy and freedom in the world. Now, ambitious military leaders in poor countries will seize power. They have nothing to fear from America because China will protect them.

Should the US recognise the new government or let the CCP wield total influence? During the last Cold War, the US had to compromise its principles in order to counter the USSR. Should it again do so to counter China?
The amazing thing is that some countries are justified in their fear of America. What is America doing in Asia?...
Protecting the good guys from the bad guys. That's what America is doing in Asia. In this case, bad guy generals of Myammar have seized power from a democratically elected government knowing that bad guy China will support them.

Why are you and other leftists always supporting bad guys, Sertorio?
No. Just teaching the "gooks" how to be democratic. Because democracy, as everybody knows, is strictly practiced in the US...

neverfail
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by neverfail » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:58 pm

Cassowary: Myanmar was only a bogus democracy anyway. The military never let go of power - so this sorry excuse of a country is no loss.

Elections? What did they acheive but propagate a lie?

China is welcome to it!

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cassowary
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by cassowary » Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:07 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:58 pm
Cassowary: Myanmar was only a bogus democracy anyway. The military never let go of power - so this sorry excuse of a country is no loss.

Elections? What did they acheive but propagate a lie?

China is welcome to it!
It’s still a victory for China. This will encourage other generals to try. Thailand perhaps?
The Imp :D

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cassowary
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by cassowary » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:09 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:03 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:23 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:26 am
cassowary wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:34 pm
Myammar military seizes power

As I said elsewhere, the rise of China will mean the roll back of democracy and freedom in the world. Now, ambitious military leaders in poor countries will seize power. They have nothing to fear from America because China will protect them.

Should the US recognise the new government or let the CCP wield total influence? During the last Cold War, the US had to compromise its principles in order to counter the USSR. Should it again do so to counter China?
The amazing thing is that some countries are justified in their fear of America. What is America doing in Asia?...
Fear of America has nothing to do with the coup in Myanmar Sertorio. The Burmese military (it IS the private army of the Burmese ethnic group; not truly a Myanmar national army) have ruled the country ever since the British rashly ceded independence to the country in 1948 (and I would nominate Burma/Myanmar as one of the British Empire countries that the UK should NOT have granted soverign independence to on the basis of its sheer unfitness to govern itself - its track record of misrule since independence speaks for itself.)

In any case the Myanmar junta 5 years ago (probably for PR in order to gain a moticum of international respectability) allowed a national election to take place without itself relinquishing real power. The result was the fiction of a democracy with the army still being a law unto itself. One of the terms and conditions was that 25% of all the seats in parliament were non elected seats reserved for representatives of the armed forces.

Aung San Suu Kyi, the Burmese aristocrat who led the opposition from home detention captivity (she received the Nobel Peace Prize for it) was permitted to stand for parliament and when elected became the authority figure within. They had another election in November with the result that Aung San Suu Kyi's party increased its parliamentry representation to the point where it could govern in its own right.

The military did not like that result as it diminished their own grip on power. So the armed forces have now decided to despense with PR and grab back all of the power for themselves that they never fully let go of.

Yes, the PRC will protect them but NOT the country from ther Americans. What they will protect is an illicit military regime with a long history of lawless brutality from having to be called to account - as it rightly should be.

(But of course, none of this will likely cut any ice with you Sertorio since you prefer to dwell in a world of make- believe :twisted: : blaming all of the world's ills on the United States.)
A country is only fit to govern itself when it bows to American interests, isn't it?...

When the military refuses to kowtow to the US, they are bad. When they do, as in Pinochet's Chile, they are good...
Aw Sertorio,

Your deep faith in leftist thinking is showing. Instead of refuting the points raised by Neverfail, you simply state your ideological (or "religious") beliefs. Nothing to back up what you just said. Let me make it easy for you.

Neverfail said 1)the military is the de facto ruler of Myammar despite elections. 2)Elections were just a PR exercise to give them a degree of legitimacy. 3)The military did not like the election results which allow Aung to rule in your own right. So it decided to launch a coup.

(My theory is that the rise of China has emboldened the military to launch a coup. )

So which of the three points you disagree with? If Neverfail is right, then the military regime is bad because of what it has done - rule without the consent of the people. Nothing to do with the US. Neverfail does not claim it to be bad just because it opposes the US.

For you to prove your statement - that Neverfail regards the military regime as bad because it opposes the US, you have to disprove all three points raised by Neverfail. I have broken the discussion down for ease of understanding.

Back to you, Sertorio. Go ahead. Prove those three points to be wrong. Don't just state the tenets of your beliefs/faith.
Last edited by cassowary on Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cassowary
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Re: It begins - the roll back of democracy

Post by cassowary » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:15 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:26 am
cassowary wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:34 pm
Myammar military seizes power

As I said elsewhere, the rise of China will mean the roll back of democracy and freedom in the world. Now, ambitious military leaders in poor countries will seize power. They have nothing to fear from America because China will protect them.

Should the US recognise the new government or let the CCP wield total influence? During the last Cold War, the US had to compromise its principles in order to counter the USSR. Should it again do so to counter China?
The amazing thing is that some countries are justified in their fear of America. What is America doing in Asia?...
Good points, Nevefail. I did not realise till you explain it to me that the military still rules Myammar and that the elected government has no real power. I was under the impression it was a power sharing type arrangement. The military allowed the elected Aung government to run the administration while the military officer class continued to enjoy whatever perks it has already enjoyed - freedom for prosecution, corrupt ways to make money.

Why did they launch the coup? This comes back to the title. I think that China's rise has emboldened the the military. They can expect help from the China which is growing more powerful. Who's going to be next? Thailand? Philippines? Indonesia?
The Imp :D

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