Trump is a symbol of hope for Chinese dissidents

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cassowary
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Trump is a symbol of hope for Chinese dissidents

Post by cassowary » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:46 am



Now the hope is dashed. :cry:
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Re: Trump is a symbol of hope for Chinese dissidents

Post by neverfail » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:51 pm

If China (meaning the PRC?) is a symbol of hope for Chinese citizens (as you claim in title) then it follows that they don't need the USA (even less so Trump). :D

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lzzrdgrrl
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Re: Trump is a symbol of hope for Chinese dissidents

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:38 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:51 pm
If China (meaning the PRC?) is a symbol of hope for Chinese citizens (as you claim in title) then it follows that they don't need the USA (even less so Trump). :D
OP made a slight error. Now that's corrected, it might change the perspective a bit....'>.......
I have a certain notoriety among the lesser gods........

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Re: Trump is a symbol of hope for Chinese dissidents

Post by neverfail » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:37 pm

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:38 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:51 pm
If China (meaning the PRC?) is a symbol of hope for Chinese citizens (as you claim in title) then it follows that they don't need the USA (even less so Trump). :D
OP made a slight error. Now that's corrected, it might change the perspective a bit....'>.......
It does Izz - but only in this way.

If they vest their faith in America's great serial liar then they must be a rather hopeless bunch.

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cassowary
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Re: Trump is a symbol of hope for Chinese dissidents

Post by cassowary » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:30 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:37 pm
lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:38 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:51 pm
If China (meaning the PRC?) is a symbol of hope for Chinese citizens (as you claim in title) then it follows that they don't need the USA (even less so Trump). :D
OP made a slight error. Now that's corrected, it might change the perspective a bit....'>.......
It does Izz - but only in this way.

If they vest their faith in America's great serial liar then they must be a rather hopeless bunch.
What you don’t see is that Trump, despite his character flaws, was a great achiever. Prior to covid19 pandemic, the US had a great economy. Minorities had their best gains.

He stopped or greatly cut down illegal immigration. He helped make peace between Israel and many Muslim states. He got recalcitrant NATO countries to up their defence contributions. Then he removed restrictions on oil and gas industry and fracking. This made the US a net energy exporter. Finally, he confronted the CCP first which delighted anti CCP Chinese both in and outside China.

So what’s a few lies compared to such accomplishments? Also most of his lies were more like exaggerations than complete falsehoods.

We look at the man’s deeds and results, not words.
The Imp :D

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Re: Trump is a symbol of hope for Chinese dissidents

Post by neverfail » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:31 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:30 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:37 pm
lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:38 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:51 pm
If China (meaning the PRC?) is a symbol of hope for Chinese citizens (as you claim in title) then it follows that they don't need the USA (even less so Trump). :D
OP made a slight error. Now that's corrected, it might change the perspective a bit....'>.......
It does Izz - but only in this way.

If they vest their faith in America's great serial liar then they must be a rather hopeless bunch.
What you don’t see is that Trump, despite his character flaws, was a great achiever. Prior to covid19 pandemic, the US had a great economy. Minorities had their best gains.

He stopped or greatly cut down illegal immigration. He helped make peace between Israel and many Muslim states. He got recalcitrant NATO countries to up their defence contributions. Then he removed restrictions on oil and gas industry and fracking. This made the US a net energy exporter. Finally, he confronted the CCP first which delighted anti CCP Chinese both in and outside China.

So what’s a few lies compared to such accomplishments? Also most of his lies were more like exaggerations than complete falsehoods.

We look at the man’s deeds and results, not words.
I have!

It wasn't just a few lies Cassowary; all politicans occasionally tell one. His unending stream of tweeted lies on an industrial scale exabberated divisioned within American society to the point where his country was on the brink of civil war. Or did you not take note of all the violence that accompanied his 4 years inn office?

A will-o-the wisp higher than average growth rate in just one year (2018) that gave only temporary respite to disadvantaged minorities (with the current coronavirus recession they would be by now back to where they were previously) would have been more impressive had it been the bi-product of a (much more politically risky) set of structural reforms that brought lasting benefits to their economy (so that the improved growth rate continued on for several years in succession if not indefinitely): but Trump did not embark on such a risky but more rewarding course. Instead he took the easy way out with the one-off sugar hit tax cut and the growth benefit proved to be subsequently unsustainable. So no Cassowary, I am not so favourably impressed by his management of the US economy and that is why.

Trump's (videoed) hero worship of Russia's Vladimar Putin was visibly downright pitiful. Do you think that Putin would have respected such a useful fool?

His approach to Europe bullying these into upping their military defence spending;- treating these as mendicent clients and American henchmen instead of allowing the dignity of being alliance partners (as previous US administrations had been wise enough to do) was a real turn-off. NATO now exists in name only and after Trump's disrespect if America's European NATO partners decide to wind the organisation up soon I will hardly blame them. One of Biden's more immediate challenges wiould be to save NATO (if he can).

So what if he acheived a couple of diplomatic breakthroughs in the Middle East on behalf of the State of Israel? Neither Israel nor any of the compliant Arab states will ever be global powers - but another entity closer to us both is shaping up as just that right now. Trump's much vaunted trade war with the PRC was an abyssimal failure that served only to expose the present day comparative weakness of the USA and comparative strength of the PRC. Well done Trumpy!

(I am now waiting to see whether Biden's proposed more nuanced approach to the challenge of handling the PRC will prove to be more successful. He and his team seem to be taking it seriously).

With a record like Trump's I cannot see how any well informed Chinese dissident could have been reassured: and (lest I focus too much on the stmpton instead of on the disease iteslf) even more so by the sick state of the USA that both allowed and underpinned the Trump presidency - the fact that America is home to at least 70 million Trump cultists who still believe his lies (including the concocted myth of the election victory having been stoled from him by Biden) and believe in him as their messiah (and the recent loss of the presidency as symbolically the equivalent of his crucifixion). It moves me to doubt the soundness of the mental health of these people - a significent part of the US population.
........................................................................................................

President Biden now has a lot of lost ground to make up in repairing the USA at home and restoring trust and credability for it abroad. Pray that he is successful Cassowary.

neverfail
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Re: Trump is a symbol of hope for Chinese dissidents

Post by neverfail » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:26 pm

Cass, by "Chinese dissidents" I suppose you mean like the pro-democracy protestors in Hong Kong?

(Then there is also the defacto island-nation of Taiwan: whose inhabitants express opposition to incorporation into the PRC and have done so for the past 70 years.)

I take a risk in temporarily appointing you as spokesperson for these but will do so for the sake of argument.

Cass, what do these people really want from the United States?

I hope they do not want a thermonuclear war between the USA and the PRC.

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Re: Trump is a symbol of hope for Chinese dissidents

Post by Doc » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:18 pm

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“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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