Australia and China

Discussion of current events
neverfail
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Re: No Sertorio: not malice but incompetance.

Post by neverfail » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:36 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:05 am

Suspicions about what really happened when no hard facts are known is a legitimate thing. But there are civilized and uncivilized ways to convey those suspicions and to request a thorough investigation. For political reasons the US - and Australia - opted for the uncivilized, aggressive way, and it was only to be expected that China would not take kindly to it. And if China did not deliberately started the pandemic, and it was all a case of faulty security at the referred laboratory, I guess one could have left to the Chinese government dealing with it and punishing the guilty parties. But the objective was to humiliate China and the Chinese, and force it to take actions which would be unacceptable when imposed from abroad.
Going back to May 2020:
https://www.afr.com/world/asia/china-ba ... 518-p54u63

US President Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping have backed Australia's push for a World Health Organisation (WHO) probe into the origins of the COVID-19 outbreak, but China demanded the inquiry be delayed until after the pandemic has peaked.
Xi may have been confident at this point that given the delay his people could doctor up the evidence sufficiently to deflect WHO attention away from the research lab. But it seems that re. PRC government "support" for the investigation "yellow man speaks with forked tongue". Contradicting the "official" support PRC policy ever since has been their snide campaign of unofficial sanctions on our exports to their country to signal their displeasure.

You call such duplicity "civilised?
The motion tabled by Australia and the European Union at the WHA and now backed by more than 120 other nations demands an independent inquiry into the Chinese origin of COVID-19 "at the earliest appropriate moment".
Backed by more than 120 other nations - very likely Portugal was among them too. We were not the only one that wanted that investigation. So tell me Sertorio: if they are so displeased then why has not the PRC government by now imposed economic sanctions on all of those 119 other nations that supported the move? If we are guilty of any wrongdoing then logically so are all of the others who supported the move. Therefore to be fair and equible all 119 should likewise be punished with discrininatory sanctions.

(Oh Sertorio, when are you going to snap out of your fastasy world of make-believe? You berate the Western democracies while practicing advocacy for authoritarian states like Russia and the PRC. In that regard your apparent priorities remind me of Donald Trump's foreign policy record; and we know now that he was and is quite mad.)

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Milo
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Re: No Sertorio: not malice but incompetance.

Post by Milo » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:58 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:36 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:05 am

Suspicions about what really happened when no hard facts are known is a legitimate thing. But there are civilized and uncivilized ways to convey those suspicions and to request a thorough investigation. For political reasons the US - and Australia - opted for the uncivilized, aggressive way, and it was only to be expected that China would not take kindly to it. And if China did not deliberately started the pandemic, and it was all a case of faulty security at the referred laboratory, I guess one could have left to the Chinese government dealing with it and punishing the guilty parties. But the objective was to humiliate China and the Chinese, and force it to take actions which would be unacceptable when imposed from abroad.
Going back to May 2020:
https://www.afr.com/world/asia/china-ba ... 518-p54u63

US President Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping have backed Australia's push for a World Health Organisation (WHO) probe into the origins of the COVID-19 outbreak, but China demanded the inquiry be delayed until after the pandemic has peaked.
Xi may have been confident at this point that given the delay his people could doctor up the evidence sufficiently to deflect WHO attention away from the research lab. But it seems that re. PRC government "support" for the investigation "yellow man speaks with forked tongue". Contradicting the "official" support PRC policy ever since has been their snide campaign of unofficial sanctions on our exports to their country to signal their displeasure.

You call such duplicity "civilised?
The motion tabled by Australia and the European Union at the WHA and now backed by more than 120 other nations demands an independent inquiry into the Chinese origin of COVID-19 "at the earliest appropriate moment".
Backed by more than 120 other nations - very likely Portugal was among them too. We were not the only one that wanted that investigation. So tell me Sertorio: if they are so displeased then why has not the PRC government by now imposed economic sanctions on all of those 119 other nations that supported the move? If we are guilty of any wrongdoing then logically so are all of the others who supported the move. Therefore to be fair and equible all 119 should likewise be punished with discrininatory sanctions.

(Oh Sertorio, when are you going to snap out of your fastasy world of make-believe? You berate the Western democracies while practicing advocacy for authoritarian states like Russia and the PRC. In that regard your apparent priorities remind me of Donald Trump's foreign policy record; and we know now that he was and is quite mad.)
Sertorio is an IRA conduit, nothing more.

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Sertorio
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Re: No Sertorio: not malice but incompetance.

Post by Sertorio » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:52 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:58 pm

Sertorio is an IRA conduit, nothing more.
I will refrain from saying what you are, because everybody already knows... ;)

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Sertorio
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Re: No Sertorio: not malice but incompetance.

Post by Sertorio » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:05 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:36 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:05 am

Suspicions about what really happened when no hard facts are known is a legitimate thing. But there are civilized and uncivilized ways to convey those suspicions and to request a thorough investigation. For political reasons the US - and Australia - opted for the uncivilized, aggressive way, and it was only to be expected that China would not take kindly to it. And if China did not deliberately started the pandemic, and it was all a case of faulty security at the referred laboratory, I guess one could have left to the Chinese government dealing with it and punishing the guilty parties. But the objective was to humiliate China and the Chinese, and force it to take actions which would be unacceptable when imposed from abroad.
Going back to May 2020:
https://www.afr.com/world/asia/china-ba ... 518-p54u63

US President Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping have backed Australia's push for a World Health Organisation (WHO) probe into the origins of the COVID-19 outbreak, but China demanded the inquiry be delayed until after the pandemic has peaked.
Xi may have been confident at this point that given the delay his people could doctor up the evidence sufficiently to deflect WHO attention away from the research lab. But it seems that re. PRC government "support" for the investigation "yellow man speaks with forked tongue". Contradicting the "official" support PRC policy ever since has been their snide campaign of unofficial sanctions on our exports to their country to signal their displeasure.

You call such duplicity "civilised?
The motion tabled by Australia and the European Union at the WHA and now backed by more than 120 other nations demands an independent inquiry into the Chinese origin of COVID-19 "at the earliest appropriate moment".
Backed by more than 120 other nations - very likely Portugal was among them too. We were not the only one that wanted that investigation. So tell me Sertorio: if they are so displeased then why has not the PRC government by now imposed economic sanctions on all of those 119 other nations that supported the move? If we are guilty of any wrongdoing then logically so are all of the others who supported the move. Therefore to be fair and equible all 119 should likewise be punished with discrininatory sanctions.

(Oh Sertorio, when are you going to snap out of your fastasy world of make-believe? You berate the Western democracies while practicing advocacy for authoritarian states like Russia and the PRC. In that regard your apparent priorities remind me of Donald Trump's foreign policy record; and we know now that he was and is quite mad.)
It's not the demands for an independent inquiry into the ... origin of COVID-19 which bothered China - as we now see by the presence in China of an investigating team -, but the intent of some of the countries, such as the US and Australia. Neither of which actually gives a damn about the origin of Covid-19. What they wanted was implying that China had caused the pandemic on purpose, unlikely as that was. A virus escaping from a laboratory - if that's what happened - is in any case a lot less serious than willingly bombing civilian populations, whether in Vietnam, Yemen or in the Middle East. Fortunately the day is approaching when the US no longer will be able to harm other peoples for profit, and both China and Russia will be instrumental in helping to achieve that end...

neverfail
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Re: No Sertorio: not malice but incompetance.

Post by neverfail » Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:12 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:05 pm
It's not the demands for an independent inquiry into the ... origin of COVID-19 which bothered China - as we now see by the presence in China of an investigating team -, but the intent of some of the countries, such as the US and Australia. Neither of which actually gives a damn about the origin of Covid-19. What they wanted was implying that China had caused the pandemic on purpose, unlikely as that was. ....
Do you mean to suggest that all of those more than 120 other nations that backed the Australian initiave were likewise "implying that China had caused the pandemic on purpose"?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think not, Sertorio!

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dagbay
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Re: Australia vs China and Google

Post by dagbay » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:45 am

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog ... tate.html
Good luck with this fight. Success would bring about a change in the unlimited power that tech companies and bullies have at the moment.
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

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Milo
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Re: Australia vs China and Google

Post by Milo » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:52 am

dagbay wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:45 am
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog ... tate.html
Good luck with this fight. Success would bring about a change in the unlimited power that tech companies and bullies have at the moment.
I am hard pressed to think of a bigger bully than Rupert Murdock. There's plenty to go 'round here.

Last place that tried this was Spain, they were humiliated.

neverfail
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Re: Australia vs China and Google

Post by neverfail » Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:18 pm

dagbay wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:45 am
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog ... tate.html
Good luck with this fight. Success would bring about a change in the unlimited power that tech companies and bullies have at the moment.
Thanks Dagbay.

The only thing that concerns me is that if our legislators win and Google has to subsequently pay our news media for content you can be certain they will pass the cost on to consumers by erecting a paywall.

I would rather keep on receiving my online news for free.

neverfail
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Location: Singapore

Re: Australia vs China and Google

Post by neverfail » Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:38 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:18 pm
dagbay wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:45 am
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog ... tate.html
Good luck with this fight. Success would bring about a change in the unlimited power that tech companies and bullies have at the moment.
Thanks Dagbay.

The only thing that concerns me is that if our legislators win and Google has to subsequently pay our news media for content you can be certain they will pass the cost on to consumers by erecting a paywall.

I would rather keep on receiving my online news for free.
Indeed, since Rupert Murdoch owns up to half of our print media as well as substantial interest in radio and television, I would not be surprised if our government was passing this legislation so that Murdock can do some rent collecting off Google and Facebook. Our parliamentry Opposition is too scared of Murdoch to dissent.

neverfail
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Re: you just can't keep a good country down.

Post by neverfail » Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:02 pm

Despite hte much vaunted "trade war" the PRC is waging against Australia we have still ended 2020 with one of our largest trade surplusses ever _ a large part of which have been due to purchases from China.
Exports to China drive $9b goods trade surplus

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/ex ... 125-p56wol

Strong demand for Australian iron ore, wheat and coking coal delivered a 16 per cent jump in exports to $34.9 billion in December, resulting in the nation’s fourth largest goods trade surplus on record.

Preliminary merchandise trade data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) showed a goods trade surplus of $9 billion, up $7.4 billion from November, more than half of which was attributed to trade with China.

Despite ongoing tensions between Australia and its largest trading partner, exports to China increased $2.3 billion or 21 per cent in December, resulting in a $5.2 billion trade surplus, driven primarily by iron ore and wheat.

Iron ore exports to China were up almost $2 billion to $9.8 billion in December, an increase of 25 per cent on November, accounting for nearly 80 per cent of iron ore exports over the month.

China paid on average 9 per cent more a tonne for iron ore in December over the previous month – the spot price was $US162.03 a tonne just before Christmas, up from about $US127 a month before – while the total quantity of iron ore being exported also increased by 15 per cent over the month.

CommSec chief economist Craig James said China’s efforts to revive its economy on the back of the coronavirus pandemic was good for exporters.
Conclusions

1. Despite the impression being pushed by Cassowary in the discussion titled China's rosy GDP number are not all that it seems to be it is patently clear that economic activity within the PRC is both strong and robust reflected in the country's rise in imports - expecially of iron ore which is used in ferrous metals production. More iron ore imports means plans to produce more iron andf steel.

2. China's trade sanctions has failed to bring Australia to heel just as surely as Trump's better publicised "trade war" sanctions have failed in their objectives.

3. The fillup of increased iron ore taxes payable to the Australian federal government will make it easier to balance our national budget or (more immediately) ease our economy into an early post-coronavirus economic recovery than would have been true were it not for this tax windfall.

As I mentioned above: you just can't keep a good country down. That applies to both Australia and the PRC. :D

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