Australia and China

Discussion of current events
neverfail
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Re: No Sertorio: not malice but incompetance.

Post by neverfail » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:50 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:05 am


Suspicions about what really happened when no hard facts are known is a legitimate thing. But there are civilized and uncivilized ways to convey those suspicions and to request a thorough investigation. For political reasons the US - and Australia - opted for the uncivilized, aggressive way, and it was only to be expected that China would not take kindly to it. And if China did not deliberately started the pandemic, and it was all a case of faulty security at the referred laboratory, I guess one could have left to the Chinese government dealing with it and punishing the guilty parties. But the objective was to humiliate China and the Chinese, and force it to take actions which would be unacceptable when imposed from abroad.
I do not know what your priorities are, but I much prefer to listen to "uncivilised" truth to a smooth, "civilised" pack of lies.

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Sertorio
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Re: No Sertorio: not malice but incompetance.

Post by Sertorio » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:30 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:50 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:05 am


Suspicions about what really happened when no hard facts are known is a legitimate thing. But there are civilized and uncivilized ways to convey those suspicions and to request a thorough investigation. For political reasons the US - and Australia - opted for the uncivilized, aggressive way, and it was only to be expected that China would not take kindly to it. And if China did not deliberately started the pandemic, and it was all a case of faulty security at the referred laboratory, I guess one could have left to the Chinese government dealing with it and punishing the guilty parties. But the objective was to humiliate China and the Chinese, and force it to take actions which would be unacceptable when imposed from abroad.
I do not know what your priorities are, but I much prefer to listen to "uncivilised" truth to a smooth, "civilised" pack of lies.
Except when the "uncivilized" truth is nothing but a pack of lies. The WHO investigation seems to prove that the virus could not have come from a Chinese laboratory... But, who cares, when the pack of lies comes in so handy to bother China?...

neverfail
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Re: No Sertorio: not malice but incompetance.

Post by neverfail » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:35 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:30 am

Except when the "uncivilized" truth is nothing but a pack of lies. The WHO investigation seems to prove that the virus could not have come from a Chinese laboratory... But, who cares, when the pack of lies comes in so handy to bother China?...
It proves nothing! The PRC autrhorities withheld vital information.

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Sertorio
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Re: No Sertorio: not malice but incompetance.

Post by Sertorio » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:45 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:35 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:30 am

Except when the "uncivilized" truth is nothing but a pack of lies. The WHO investigation seems to prove that the virus could not have come from a Chinese laboratory... But, who cares, when the pack of lies comes in so handy to bother China?...
It proves nothing! The PRC autrhorities withheld vital information.
I suppose you were there to see that happening... What we know are the conclusions by the WHO experts. But maybe, according to you, they were eager to be fooled by the Chinese....

neverfail
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Re: No Sertorio: not malice but incompetance.

Post by neverfail » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:17 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:45 pm

I suppose you were there to see that happening... What we know are the conclusions by the WHO experts. But maybe, according to you, they were eager to be fooled by the Chinese....
I know only that the non-PRC half of the scientific experts who made up the WHO team complained about that. Especially prominant and well publicised out here was the complaint of the Australian member once he returned from China.

One half of the WHO team was made up of PRC appointees who had their orders from the CCP high command. As for the non PRC international half: no these were not eager to be fooled anything like as much as the CCP bosses were eager to manipulate the course and result of their investigation.

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Sertorio
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Re: No Sertorio: not malice but incompetance.

Post by Sertorio » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:30 am

neverfail wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:17 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:45 pm

I suppose you were there to see that happening... What we know are the conclusions by the WHO experts. But maybe, according to you, they were eager to be fooled by the Chinese....
I know only that the non-PRC half of the scientific experts who made up the WHO team complained about that. Especially prominant and well publicised out here was the complaint of the Australian member once he returned from China.

One half of the WHO team was made up of PRC appointees who had their orders from the CCP high command. As for the non PRC international half: no these were not eager to be fooled anything like as much as the CCP bosses were eager to manipulate the course and result of their investigation.
That's typical. You insist on an international inspection on the origin of the Covid 19. When you get it you are only prepared to accept its conclusions if they are in agreement with your preconceived ideas. Otherwise you claim the international commission was "manipulated"... You can never lose, isn't it?...And you wonder why China is not willing to accommodate the West's illegitimate demands...

neverfail
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Re: China threatens Australia - again!

Post by neverfail » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:27 pm

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 57lia.html

China has threatened retaliation over the federal government’s decision to cancel Victoria’s Belt and Road agreement as the move secured support across the political and security spectrums in Australia.

But senior Australian officials who were not authorised to speak on the record said Australia was prepared to wear China’s response given how the nation had survived the past year of economic coercion.

In the first official comments from the Chinese government since Wednesday night’s decision, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin said the move would deepen tensions between Canberra and Beijing. Australia is the first country to have scrapped a signed BRI agreement.
It may not be the last!

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Sertorio
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Re: China threatens Australia - again!

Post by Sertorio » Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:38 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:27 pm
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 57lia.html

China has threatened retaliation over the federal government’s decision to cancel Victoria’s Belt and Road agreement as the move secured support across the political and security spectrums in Australia.

But senior Australian officials who were not authorised to speak on the record said Australia was prepared to wear China’s response given how the nation had survived the past year of economic coercion.

In the first official comments from the Chinese government since Wednesday night’s decision, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin said the move would deepen tensions between Canberra and Beijing. Australia is the first country to have scrapped a signed BRI agreement.
It may not be the last!
I suppose you are under the illusion that Australia (Victoria) will benefit from scrapping the BRI agreement. In which way, may I ask?...

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Doc
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Re: No Sertorio: not malice but incompetance.

Post by Doc » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:57 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:30 am
neverfail wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:17 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:45 pm

I suppose you were there to see that happening... What we know are the conclusions by the WHO experts. But maybe, according to you, they were eager to be fooled by the Chinese....
I know only that the non-PRC half of the scientific experts who made up the WHO team complained about that. Especially prominant and well publicised out here was the complaint of the Australian member once he returned from China.

One half of the WHO team was made up of PRC appointees who had their orders from the CCP high command. As for the non PRC international half: no these were not eager to be fooled anything like as much as the CCP bosses were eager to manipulate the course and result of their investigation.
That's typical. You insist on an international inspection on the origin of the Covid 19. When you get it you are only prepared to accept its conclusions if they are in agreement with your preconceived ideas. Otherwise you claim the international commission was "manipulated"... You can never lose, isn't it?...And you wonder why China is not willing to accommodate the West's illegitimate demands...
The non investigation of the CCP origins of the CCP virus ... Even the director of the WHO criticized the report.

Personally I have come to the conclusion that the CCP developed the CCP virus as a Bio-Weapon. Then lost control of it. But who knows? Mao used to talk about China with its over population being better off after a nuclear war then before it.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: China threatens Australia - again!

Post by neverfail » Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:39 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:38 am

I suppose you are under the illusion that Australia (Victoria) will benefit from scrapping the BRI agreement. In which way, may I ask?...
National security, Sertorio.

Step by step this country seems to be battening down the hatches in preparation for the coming war between the USA and the PRC over Taiwan.

We would rather the conflict to not happen but what can a comparatively small power like ours do? We have no control over what the big powers decide.
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In like manner in March 1941 the Australian government expelled the entire Japanese population of several thousand in Australia back to Japan. That turned out to be a very provident move; bearing in mind that in southeast Asia; wherever there were Japanese immigrant settlers established there were "plants" among them sent out by the Imperial Japanese government as spies and sabotuers. I have seen and heard testimony as to how effective these plants were in the subsequent Japanese invasion throughout this region and in the tightening of the Japanese grip on them.

Imperian Japan planned its war against The West years ahead.

In the case of Hawaii where there was a numerically large immigrant Japanese population: it took only one elderly spy in the service of the Japanese military to sound out and report the underwater depth contours of Pearl Harbour: crucial information in the planning of the subsequent airborne attack on the US naval base.

While most Japanese settlers may have been innocent of wrongdoing they still (inadvertently or otherwise) provided a smoke screen cover for the fewer who were up to no good.

That this expulsion of Japanese nationals might seem with hindsight now to have been a "scattergun" approach to solving the problem as were the mass arrests of Japanese immigrant settlers in both the USA and Canada after the Pearl Harbour raid: but considering the prevailing circumstances of the day with the entire world apparently going to hell and the future outcome of the War unclear, I consider these moves to have been well justified.

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