Australia and China

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Sertorio
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Re: Australia and China

Post by Sertorio » Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:07 am

China replaces Australian iron ore, coal imports with African alternatives
By Chu Daye - Feb 06, 2021

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202102/1215117.shtml

Just about one year after Scott Morrison's government decided to further sour China-Australia ties by calling for a weapons-inspector style investigation into COVID-19's origins while China was in the midst of containing the novel coronavirus, Chinese ports are beginning to receive hundreds of thousands of tons of coal and a full shipload of iron ore from Sierra Leone, a sign that does not bode well for Australia, as it shows how easy China could replace Australia with alternative import sources, even for iron ore and coal, a Chinese observer told the Global Times on Saturday.

The first batch of 160,000 tons of seaborne coal from South Africa, weighing 2,387 tons, was loaded onto trains heading for Nanning, the capital of South China's Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region on Thursday, a local media outlet reported.

The coal shipment, arriving after a voyage of over 20 days, is the first load of imports by China from South Africa in five years.

The news of the coal shipment follows a news release posted by the Chinese Embassy in Sierra Leone last week, which said a ship loaded with iron ores mined by the Kingho New Tonkolili Iron Ore Project in the West African country, the very first shipment for the new project, left the Port of Pepel and was heading toward China on January 29.

Chinese analysts closely following China-Australia relations said these two developments are clearly aimed at tackling China's overreliance on coal and iron ore resources from Australia, after a winter of shortage woes for thermal coal and recent runaway iron ore prices sent renewed alerts to Chinese policymakers.

Song Wei, an associate research fellow at the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation, said despite China's overreliance on Australian iron ore and coal, which has caused quite some hiccups in the past months, recent shipments of the important materials from alternative source countries showed that it is easy for China to replace Australia as its import source.

"China's cooperation with developing countries has been rapidly expanding in recent years, and many of these countries are rich in natural resources and are seeking to achieve economic development and growth themselves via trade," Song said.

Chinese experts told the Global Times that China needs three to five years to invest and develop in African iron ore mines, but some investment projects long started before China-Australian ties soured in 2020.

Despite it being easy for China to replace Australia with alternative trading partners, it will be difficult for Australia, on the other hand, to find alternative exports market to recoup its losses from the Chinese market, experts said.

Australia posted a trade and services surplus of A$72.7 billion ($55.47 billion), an increase of A$5.2 billion on the surplus of A$67.5 billion recorded in 2019 in its balance on goods and services for 2020, data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics showed on Thursday.

However, after a year of trade tensions with China, its largest trading partner, and with the Morrison government choosing to back the Trump administration's anti-China campaign, which ultimately only damaged its relations with China, some sectors are starting to feel the impact of strained bilateral ties.

Wine exports were effectively wiped out in December after China imposed a temporary tariff amid an ongoing anti-dumping investigation, the Wine Australia report showed.

Impacted by a deteriorating China-Australia relationship, China's imports from Australia saw an annual decline of 5.3 percent in US dollar terms, according to Chinese customs data from mid-January.

Australian farmers also warned that the country's trade dispute with China and supply chain disruptions linked to the pandemic will cost the industry $28 billion over the next decade, the Financial Times reported on Friday.

Equally at risk is Australia's services sector, which generates almost as much revenue as the minerals exports for Down Under, Song said.

China's Ministry of Education issued a fresh warning on Friday to students studying in Australia following recent attacks on Chinese in the country and common COVID-19 outbreaks, a move that experts believe could be a result of damaged and still deteriorating China-Australia relations.
This is a Global Times article, but it seems pretty factual. Is Australia sure that confrontation with China was a good idea?...

neverfail
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Re: Australia and China

Post by neverfail » Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:45 pm

:lol: Not according to the alternative info I have been able to Google up Sertorio:
https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/mark ... mine-halts

FEATURE: Sierra Leone iron ore exits global market as opaque policy sparks mine halts

Sierra Leone's iron ore mines remain at a standstill, with no early restart foreseen, after foreign miners' rights were confiscated, traders and producers said in the week started Nov. 15. Land tenure rights, for which no legal framework has been defined in the country's latest mining code, may be the central issue.
Dated November 2020.

Sierra Leone is in no fit state to export iron ore to China - so that (PRC) Global Times report is a piece of disinformation (i.e. lying propaganda)

Of course the report looks "authoritative" Sertorio. If it was not written to appear that way it would be ineffectual propaganda.

Meanwhile:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... om%20China.

The one export China CAN'T punish Australia over as iron ore sales soar to a record high of $11BILLION in just one month
Dated Feburary 7, 2021.

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Sertorio
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Re: Australia and China

Post by Sertorio » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:09 am

Australia is now paying the price economically for its hostility to China and slavish loyalty to the US
by Tom Fowdy [a British writer and analyst of politics and international relations with a primary focus on East Asia]
1 Mar, 2021 14:03
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/516874-austral ... ity-china/

The consequences of Canberra’s unconditional alignment with Washington in the cold war against Beijing are becoming clear. How long can Australia afford to be overtly hostile towards China, its biggest benefactor?

A recent study by the Australian National University found that Chinese investment in the country fell by more than 60 percent in 2020.

The report states that the drop goes beyond declining global investment – which was exacerbated by the Covid-19 pandemic – and followed a 47 percent slump in 2019.

These significant falls are attributable to rising political tensions between the countries, with Canberra having fanned hysteria about the scale of Chinese influence in the country, positioned itself as a loyalist to US foreign policy and taken moves to block multiple investments.

This enmity reached a boiling point last year, with Beijing placing tariffs and bans on a number of Australian exports including wine, coal, barley, and lobsters.

At the same time as the news of the drop in investment emerged, China announced that its official GDP enjoyed sustained growth throughout 2020, avoiding the problems caused by Covid-19 that beset other major economies around the world.

With China’s economy already 70 percent of the size of America’s, it is forecast to become the world’s largest in seven years’ time. It makes no secret of its ambition to power ahead, with the Communist Party having announced a mega infrastructure scheme intended to double its economy by 2035, by constructing hundreds of new airports and a high-speed rail network spanning 200,000km.

So, where does all this leave Australia? Although attached to a region of prolific growth that is undeniably much better off than Europe, Canberra has nonetheless made bad strategic choices under Prime Minister Scott Morrison and is paying the price for it.

It has staked everything on absolute alignment with the US and put itself on a collision course with the dominant economic power of the Asia-Pacific region, treating it as a de facto adversary. While Australia repeatedly depicts itself as a victim in its confrontations with Beijing, China now sees it as a hostile country with significant risk, and, subsequently, it is bleeding on all fronts – trade, investment and education.

To fully understand Australia’s position, it is important to recognise its place in the world. Although geographically it spans an entire continent, when it comes to population size, it is, in fact, a small country with fewer people than China’s largest city of Shanghai. Moreover, it is surrounded by countries with far, far larger populations, discounting China itself. Neighbouring Indonesia has around 270 million people – 10 times as many as Australia – for starters.

This makes Australia more strategically insecure than it actually appears, and, combined with an Anglophone identity and British legacy, has created a foreign policy outlook which places maximum strategic dependency on the US.

History has also contributed to this. In World War II, the British Empire was largely overrun in the Pacific by the Empire of Japan and, ultimately, only the US was capable of sustaining Australia’s independence, which subsequently saw America displace Britain as the Pacific power thereafter.

This security arrangement has seen Australia side with the US in every major conflict and foreign policy stance since, even more so than Britain itself (consider, for example, the Vietnam War). The rise of China presents a new challenge, because it cuts across Australia’s interests like never before.

Australia’s geography has allowed it to thrive immensely from China’s economic trajectory, especially in sectors such as mining, making it Canberra’s largest export market and a crucial source of foreign investment. However, China’s ascent has also fostered the belief that Beijing now serves to challenge the international order led by the US, on whose mast Australia has for decades long pinned its colours.

Irrespective of this, Canberra is not handling its position well. The Morrison government, the media and assorted think tanks have not sought balance and calibration between what might be described as Australia’s own strategic autonomy and economic prosperity.

Instead, they’ve opted for a full throttle anti-China policy and maximum loyalty to the US, which has undermined the foundations of the country’s prosperity. And Australia has happily played the victim when the consequences of these actions have rolled in one by one.

And what exactly are those consequences? Well, the trade embargos China has implemented across the board are extremely unhelpful. Pledges to find someone else to export to are almost always the counter-argument, but this glosses over the reality that no other country on earth has the spending power of a consumer market of 1.4 billion people.

The Australian wine company, Treasury Wine Estates, for example, has been forced to divest some aspects of its business in response to Chinese tariffs, with profits crashing 43 percent. The price of Australian lobsters has also dropped from $100 to $30 AUD per kilo, with China having accounted for 95 percent of exports. And farmers have warned the trade spat with China will cost them $37 billion.

But that’s not all. Rumours are now escalating that China is openly encouraging a boycott of Australian universities – a significant move, given it is estimated Chinese students contributed $10.5billion to the Australian economy between 2019 and 2020.

This reliance on international students is exacerbated by the country’s own small population. Now, however, Chinese authorities are citing racism and outright political hostility as reasons to stay away, and urging risk assessments. This is a ticking time bomb for academic institutions, especially as the Australian government has also implemented cuts in education spending in favour of investment in the military. And that little irony expresses the problem in a nutshell.

In conclusion, Australia is now suffering because it has made the decision to pivot itself towards being a strategic adversary of the regional hegemon, which also happens to represent its primary benefactor. China’s rise facilitated Australia’s own boom in the early 2000s which saw its average income increase more than threefold. But now, on the preference of loyalty to Washington, it finds itself increasingly isolated and estranged from an economy that will soon be the world’s largest.

Nobody denies Australia the right to hold its own strategically and negotiate from a position of strength. But to see so many sectors now placed on the brink and investment tanking because of excessive hostility towards Beijing? That isn’t strategy, nor is it prudence. That’s failure.
This could be dismissed as a bit of Russian propaganda, but the writer is British and this can be seen in his biography:

Education:

2017-2018: Oxford University, Chinese Studies Msc.

2015-2016: University of Hong Kong, Exchange Student (Social Sciences)

2013-2017: Durham University: Politics B.A Honours with Year Abroad (First Class)

Academic Focuses:

Chinese history, politics, law & foreign relations

Politics & foreign relations of North Korea

Which doesn't mean he cannot be wrong in his assessment...

neverfail
Posts: 6590
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Australia and China

Post by neverfail » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:31 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:09 am
Australia is now paying the price economically for its hostility to China and slavish loyalty to the US
by Tom Fowdy [a British writer and analyst of politics and international relations with a primary focus on East Asia]
1 Mar, 2021 14:03
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/516874-austral ... ity-china/

The consequences of Canberra’s unconditional alignment with Washington in the cold war against Beijing are becoming clear. How long can Australia afford to be overtly hostile towards China, its biggest benefactor?

A recent study by the Australian National University found that Chinese investment in the country fell by more than 60 percent in 2020.

The report states that the drop goes beyond declining global investment – which was exacerbated by the Covid-19 pandemic – and followed a 47 percent slump in 2019.

These significant falls are attributable to rising political tensions between the countries, with Canberra having fanned hysteria about the scale of Chinese influence in the country, positioned itself as a loyalist to US foreign policy and taken moves to block multiple investments.

This enmity reached a boiling point last year, with Beijing placing tariffs and bans on a number of Australian exports including wine, coal, barley, and lobsters.

At the same time as the news of the drop in investment emerged, China announced that its official GDP enjoyed sustained growth throughout 2020, avoiding the problems caused by Covid-19 that beset other major economies around the world.

With China’s economy already 70 percent of the size of America’s, it is forecast to become the world’s largest in seven years’ time. It makes no secret of its ambition to power ahead, with the Communist Party having announced a mega infrastructure scheme intended to double its economy by 2035, by constructing hundreds of new airports and a high-speed rail network spanning 200,000km.

So, where does all this leave Australia? Although attached to a region of prolific growth that is undeniably much better off than Europe, Canberra has nonetheless made bad strategic choices under Prime Minister Scott Morrison and is paying the price for it.

It has staked everything on absolute alignment with the US and put itself on a collision course with the dominant economic power of the Asia-Pacific region, treating it as a de facto adversary. While Australia repeatedly depicts itself as a victim in its confrontations with Beijing, China now sees it as a hostile country with significant risk, and, subsequently, it is bleeding on all fronts – trade, investment and education.

To fully understand Australia’s position, it is important to recognise its place in the world. Although geographically it spans an entire continent, when it comes to population size, it is, in fact, a small country with fewer people than China’s largest city of Shanghai. Moreover, it is surrounded by countries with far, far larger populations, discounting China itself. Neighbouring Indonesia has around 270 million people – 10 times as many as Australia – for starters.

This makes Australia more strategically insecure than it actually appears, and, combined with an Anglophone identity and British legacy, has created a foreign policy outlook which places maximum strategic dependency on the US.

History has also contributed to this. In World War II, the British Empire was largely overrun in the Pacific by the Empire of Japan and, ultimately, only the US was capable of sustaining Australia’s independence, which subsequently saw America displace Britain as the Pacific power thereafter.

This security arrangement has seen Australia side with the US in every major conflict and foreign policy stance since, even more so than Britain itself (consider, for example, the Vietnam War). The rise of China presents a new challenge, because it cuts across Australia’s interests like never before.

Australia’s geography has allowed it to thrive immensely from China’s economic trajectory, especially in sectors such as mining, making it Canberra’s largest export market and a crucial source of foreign investment. However, China’s ascent has also fostered the belief that Beijing now serves to challenge the international order led by the US, on whose mast Australia has for decades long pinned its colours.

Irrespective of this, Canberra is not handling its position well. The Morrison government, the media and assorted think tanks have not sought balance and calibration between what might be described as Australia’s own strategic autonomy and economic prosperity.

Instead, they’ve opted for a full throttle anti-China policy and maximum loyalty to the US, which has undermined the foundations of the country’s prosperity. And Australia has happily played the victim when the consequences of these actions have rolled in one by one.

And what exactly are those consequences? Well, the trade embargos China has implemented across the board are extremely unhelpful. Pledges to find someone else to export to are almost always the counter-argument, but this glosses over the reality that no other country on earth has the spending power of a consumer market of 1.4 billion people.

The Australian wine company, Treasury Wine Estates, for example, has been forced to divest some aspects of its business in response to Chinese tariffs, with profits crashing 43 percent. The price of Australian lobsters has also dropped from $100 to $30 AUD per kilo, with China having accounted for 95 percent of exports. And farmers have warned the trade spat with China will cost them $37 billion.

But that’s not all. Rumours are now escalating that China is openly encouraging a boycott of Australian universities – a significant move, given it is estimated Chinese students contributed $10.5billion to the Australian economy between 2019 and 2020.

This reliance on international students is exacerbated by the country’s own small population. Now, however, Chinese authorities are citing racism and outright political hostility as reasons to stay away, and urging risk assessments. This is a ticking time bomb for academic institutions, especially as the Australian government has also implemented cuts in education spending in favour of investment in the military. And that little irony expresses the problem in a nutshell.

In conclusion, Australia is now suffering because it has made the decision to pivot itself towards being a strategic adversary of the regional hegemon, which also happens to represent its primary benefactor. China’s rise facilitated Australia’s own boom in the early 2000s which saw its average income increase more than threefold. But now, on the preference of loyalty to Washington, it finds itself increasingly isolated and estranged from an economy that will soon be the world’s largest.

Nobody denies Australia the right to hold its own strategically and negotiate from a position of strength. But to see so many sectors now placed on the brink and investment tanking because of excessive hostility towards Beijing? That isn’t strategy, nor is it prudence. That’s failure.
This could be dismissed as a bit of Russian propaganda, but the writer is British and this can be seen in his biography:

Education:

2017-2018: Oxford University, Chinese Studies Msc.

2015-2016: University of Hong Kong, Exchange Student (Social Sciences)

2013-2017: Durham University: Politics B.A Honours with Year Abroad (First Class)

Academic Focuses:

Chinese history, politics, law & foreign relations

Politics & foreign relations of North Korea

Which doesn't mean he cannot be wrong in his assessment...
Yep!
https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/ex ... nd%20wheat.

Exports to China drive $9b goods trade surplus
Read all about it Sertorio.

neverfail
Posts: 6590
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Australia and China

Post by neverfail » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:51 am

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... l#comments

Australia paid a high price for unsatisfying report into global tragedy

Probably no country has paid as high a price as Australia did for the international inquiry into the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic. By becoming the first in the world publicly to call for an independent investigation, Australia made itself a target of the Chinese Communist Party.

We know the price we had to pay – punitive Chinese government sanctions on Australian trade worth over $20 billion a year.
(Despite this we still ran a healthy trade surplus with the PRC last year: but that is really beside the point.)

When our government first announced just over a year ago that it was pursuing this policy course, I recall at the time having a sickening feeling in my gut that this is going to end badly for Australia.

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Sertorio
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Re: Australia and China

Post by Sertorio » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:05 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:51 am
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... l#comments

Australia paid a high price for unsatisfying report into global tragedy

Probably no country has paid as high a price as Australia did for the international inquiry into the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic. By becoming the first in the world publicly to call for an independent investigation, Australia made itself a target of the Chinese Communist Party.

We know the price we had to pay – punitive Chinese government sanctions on Australian trade worth over $20 billion a year.
(Despite this we still ran a healthy trade surplus with the PRC last year: but that is really beside the point.)

When our government first announced just over a year ago that it was pursuing this policy course, I recall at the time having a sickening feeling in my gut that this is going to end badly for Australia.
If Australia had acted based on a sincere wish of finding out what had happened, and had done it in consultation with China and the WHO, I'm sure that China would have accepted it without any problems. But Australia was just being America's mouthpiece and wanted to impose on China a preconceived guilty verdict meant to embarrass China. That's what you get by being America's vassal...

neverfail
Posts: 6590
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Australia and China: the Australian government's costly miscalculation.

Post by neverfail » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:12 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:05 am
neverfail wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:51 am
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... l#comments

Australia paid a high price for unsatisfying report into global tragedy

Probably no country has paid as high a price as Australia did for the international inquiry into the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic. By becoming the first in the world publicly to call for an independent investigation, Australia made itself a target of the Chinese Communist Party.

We know the price we had to pay – punitive Chinese government sanctions on Australian trade worth over $20 billion a year.
(Despite this we still ran a healthy trade surplus with the PRC last year: but that is really beside the point.)

When our government first announced just over a year ago that it was pursuing this policy course, I recall at the time having a sickening feeling in my gut that this is going to end badly for Australia.
If Australia had acted based on a sincere wish of finding out what had happened, and had done it in consultation with China and the WHO, I'm sure that China would have accepted it without any problems. But Australia was just being America's mouthpiece and wanted to impose on China a preconceived guilty verdict meant to embarrass China. That's what you get by being America's vassal...
No matter how often and persistently you accuse this country of being "America's vassal" it will not make the accusation true.

This government gained great credibility by the way it led this country through the coronavirus emergency while still maintaining our national economy in a sufficiently robust shape that it is now poised for a speedy recovery. I consider the pursuit of the WTO enquiry by that government to have been a policy blunder that stands out as such because it occurred in the midst of so many policy successes.

There is no evidence to support your oft repeated, snide insinuation that Scott Morrison was obeying instructions from President Trump. However, I concede that at the back of P M Morrison's mind might have been the urge to ingratiate himself to Trump in anticipation of future favours that the big man in the White House could bestow. Since Scott Morrison has owned up to nothing I cannot prove it and neither can you. If it is true however then it has backfired on our government. Trump did not get re-elected as everyone anticipated at the beginning of 2020 so he is now in no position to do S M any favours. Meantime this country has to endure the inflicted economic loss from having the PRC government ranged against us.

(Could a political leader of our country be so petty minded as to temporarily set aside the national interest in pursuit of a transitory political gain like that? Indeed, could he be so naive as to be blind to a possible backlash from abroad? Yep, unfortunately they can! These guys in power are not in any way omnicient - they all have frailties and limitations.)

We have our national election coming up next year. The governnment could very well lose it because of that past wrong miscalculation as to how the PRC government might react. Gratitude, even for successfully steering us through a coronavirus crisis, does not last forever and a lot of the economic loss has been directed towards regions of Australia where the locals usually vote in government MP's to represent them in parliament. These constituents by now could not be very happy.

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Sertorio
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Re: Australia and China: the Australian government's costly miscalculation.

Post by Sertorio » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:39 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:12 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:05 am
neverfail wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:51 am
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... l#comments

Australia paid a high price for unsatisfying report into global tragedy

Probably no country has paid as high a price as Australia did for the international inquiry into the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic. By becoming the first in the world publicly to call for an independent investigation, Australia made itself a target of the Chinese Communist Party.

We know the price we had to pay – punitive Chinese government sanctions on Australian trade worth over $20 billion a year.
(Despite this we still ran a healthy trade surplus with the PRC last year: but that is really beside the point.)

When our government first announced just over a year ago that it was pursuing this policy course, I recall at the time having a sickening feeling in my gut that this is going to end badly for Australia.
If Australia had acted based on a sincere wish of finding out what had happened, and had done it in consultation with China and the WHO, I'm sure that China would have accepted it without any problems. But Australia was just being America's mouthpiece and wanted to impose on China a preconceived guilty verdict meant to embarrass China. That's what you get by being America's vassal...
No matter how often and persistently you accuse this country of being "America's vassal" it will not make the accusation true.

This government gained great credibility by the way it led this country through the coronavirus emergency while still maintaining our national economy in a sufficiently robust shape that it is now poised for a speedy recovery. I consider the pursuit of the WTO enquiry by that government to have been a policy blunder that stands out as such because it occurred in the midst of so many policy successes.

There is no evidence to support your oft repeated, snide insinuation that Scott Morrison was obeying instructions from President Trump. However, I concede that at the back of P M Morrison's mind might have been the urge to ingratiate himself to Trump in anticipation of future favours that the big man in the White House could bestow. Since Scott Morrison has owned up to nothing I cannot prove it and neither can you. If it is true however then it has backfired on our government. Trump did not get re-elected as everyone anticipated at the beginning of 2020 so he is now in no position to do S M any favours. Meantime this country has to endure the inflicted economic loss from having the PRC government ranged against us.

(Could a political leader of our country be so petty minded as to temporarily set aside the national interest in pursuit of a transitory political gain like that? Indeed, could he be so naive as to be blind to a possible backlash from abroad? Yep, unfortunately they can! These guys in power are not in any way omnicient - they all have frailties and limitations.)

We have our national election coming up next year. The governnment could very well lose it because of that past wrong miscalculation as to how the PRC government might react. Gratitude, even for successfully steering us through a coronavirus crisis, does not last forever and a lot of the economic loss has been directed towards regions of Australia where the locals usually vote in government MP's to represent them in parliament. These constituents by now could not be very happy.
"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."

The fact is that in respect to China Australia has consistently taken the side and arguments and accusations of the US, so if it isn't an American vassal it very much looks like one. And that was totally unnecessary. China is not a threat to Australia and it would normally be Australia's largest trade partner, very much contributing to Australia's prosperity. All Australia had to do was not following the US in its conflict with China. Had Australia shown to be its own master and China would not have curtailed Australian trade with China. But the anglosphere compulsion was irresistible, and now you are left out in the cold...

neverfail
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Location: Singapore

Re: Australia and China: the Australian government's costly miscalculation.

Post by neverfail » Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:59 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:39 am

The fact is that in respect to China Australia has consistently taken the side and arguments and accusations of the US, so if it isn't an American vassal it very much looks like one. And that was totally unnecessary. China is not a threat to Australia and it would normally be Australia's largest trade partner, very much contributing to Australia's prosperity. All Australia had to do was not following the US in its conflict with China. Had Australia shown to be its own master and China would not have curtailed Australian trade with China. But the anglosphere compulsion was irresistible, and now you are left out in the cold...
China is not (directly) a threat to Australia because we have the backup of the USA to deter it from becoming one - and that is non negotiable. Beijing would respect us far less if we did not have that special relationship.

In international diplomacy, you will get nothing out of any foreign country abroad unless your own is willing and able to do something for it in return. That is as true in dealing with the United States as with any other power.

Quite apart from and outside of our association with the USA China has shown bad faith by, over the last decade and a half, doing some rather unfriendly things to this country. We fromm our side have done things that Beijing finds irksome too - like passing legislation to prevent firms beholden to the CCP from buying up strategic sectors of our economy that, had the practice been allowed to continue would have seen this country reduced to being a PRC vassal by stealth.

China is STILL Australia's largest external trading partner and I have alrerady posted on this website the news that last year (2020) we enjoyed our biggest trade surplus with the PRC ever. (Did you not take note of that, Sertorio?). Loss of sales on items of trade like barley and wine has been more than made up for by increrased PRC purchases of other commodities not subject to their sanctions such as iron ore. We are presently anticipating another bumper year in 2021.

Yes, out here we want mutually benefical relations with the PRC but NOT if the price we have to pay for is submission to the dictates of Beijing. Fuck that!

The PRC sanctions has not structurally hurt our economy - only the fortunes of producers of these lesser exportable commodities caught up through no fault of theirs in the dispute crossfire.
................................................................................................................................
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-17/ ... 9/12256910

Coalition of 62 countries backs joint Australian, EU push for independent inquiry into coronavirus outbreak
Sunday 17 May 2020
By political reporter Stephen Dziedzic
The PRC has not applied discriminatory trade sanctions on a single one of the other 61 that supported the Australian bid. Had Australia been merely one among those 61 instead of the instigator our products would not be subject to those sanctions now. Beijing is making an examople of us to the world at large.

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Sertorio
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Re: Australia and China: the Australian government's costly miscalculation.

Post by Sertorio » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:01 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:59 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:39 am

The fact is that in respect to China Australia has consistently taken the side and arguments and accusations of the US, so if it isn't an American vassal it very much looks like one. And that was totally unnecessary. China is not a threat to Australia and it would normally be Australia's largest trade partner, very much contributing to Australia's prosperity. All Australia had to do was not following the US in its conflict with China. Had Australia shown to be its own master and China would not have curtailed Australian trade with China. But the anglosphere compulsion was irresistible, and now you are left out in the cold...
China is not (directly) a threat to Australia because we have the backup of the USA to deter it from becoming one - and that is non negotiable. Beijing would respect us far less if we did not have that special relationship.

In international diplomacy, you will get nothing out of any foreign country abroad unless your own is willing and able to do something for it in return. That is as true in dealing with the United States as with any other power.

Quite apart from and outside of our association with the USA China has shown bad faith by, over the last decade and a half, doing some rather unfriendly things to this country. We fromm our side have done things that Beijing finds irksome too - like passing legislation to prevent firms beholden to the CCP from buying up strategic sectors of our economy that, had the practice been allowed to continue would have seen this country reduced to being a PRC vassal by stealth.

China is STILL Australia's largest external trading partner and I have alrerady posted on this website the news that last year (2020) we enjoyed our biggest trade surplus with the PRC ever. (Did you not take note of that, Sertorio?). Loss of sales on items of trade like barley and wine has been more than made up for by increrased PRC purchases of other commodities not subject to their sanctions such as iron ore. We are presently anticipating another bumper year in 2021.

Yes, out here we want mutually benefical relations with the PRC but NOT if the price we have to pay for is submission to the dictates of Beijing. Fuck that!

The PRC sanctions has not structurally hurt our economy - only the fortunes of producers of these lesser exportable commodities caught up through no fault of theirs in the dispute crossfire.
China is no more a threat to Australia as it is to any other country in the region, and the US alliance tends only to make it bigger. Without that alliance, Australia could never be a threat to China, and China would treat it as a friendly trading partner. But Australia still lives the dream of an Anglo hegemony over the world, with the US replacing the older British empire. Australians know the US is a bully but they keep hoping it is THEIR bully. They should realize that the days of the Anglo empire are truly over, and that much of what is going to happen in the world will be influenced by China and Russia. The smart thing for Australia would be recognizing this, and seeing it as an opportunity. Sticking to the US alliance is suicidal. As you will soon realize.

As to trade:
Most Australian trade with China has plummeted 40 per cent amid tensions, DFAT reveals
By political reporter Matthew Doran
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-25/ ... /100029910

The value of Australian trade with China for almost all industries has plummeted by 40 per cent since a trade dispute ramped up between the two countries.

Key points:

Overall, trade between the two nations is down just 2 per cent in value but that figure is being propped up by the iron ore trade;

Wine, coal, barley are some of the export industries to be hit hardest;

Overall trade between the two nations is down just 2 per cent in value, with the situation propped up by strong demand for Australian iron ore.

But as soon as iron ore value is removed from the equation, the full and stark extent of retaliatory trade tariffs imposed by Beijing becomes crystal clear.

Officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade shared the bleak assessment in a Senate estimates hearing in Canberra, under questioning from Labor's Senate leader Penny Wong.

The figures reflect trade in the second half of the 2019 calendar year compared to the last six months of 2020.

Officials said the situation was still concerning, even taking into account the COVID-19 pandemic's effect on global trade.

Australian trade to the rest of the world only dropped by 22 per cent in value during the virus-fuelled economic downturn.

"We just get a sense of, well, this is much bigger than the overall impact of the global economy – is that a fair way to say it?" Senator Wong asked.

"That is a fair way to say it," DFAT's Jennifer Gordon replied.

Australia and China have been locked in a serious trade dispute, with Beijing slapping Australian wine and barley with severe tariffs, and blocking imports of products including lobsters and cotton.

DFAT confirmed there were around 40 ships carrying Australian coal stranded off the coast of China, following restrictions on thermal and metallurgical coal.

Thermal coal exports to China were down 70 per cent in the six months to January 2021, while metallurgical coal had dropped 60 per cent.

Coal exports dropped 83 per cent when comparing the figures from the December quarter of 2019 to the December quarter of 2020.

DFAT secretary Frances Adamson said some of the ships had been there for "several months".

"It's been a really long time," DFAT's Elly Lawson added.

Dr Gordon noted Australian coal exports were only down by 8 per cent, given an increase in demand from countries including India and Japan.

Barley exports to China were described as "negligible", but "bumper crops" had led to an increase in exports elsewhere.

Wine has also suffered considerably.

"Wine exports have fallen to less than a million dollars in January 2021," Dr Gordon told the hearing.

"We exported $164 million worth of wine to China in October [2020], which was higher than normal because there was warning of the trade sanctions being applied, so there was a bit of a stockpiling effect.

"But since then, unfortunately, we haven't been able to divert as much wine to the rest of the world, so there is a net cost to the wine industry — so it's not the success story of barley."

Officials confirmed new Trade Minister Dan Tehan's efforts to gain an audience with his Chinese counterpart are going just as well as those of his predecessor Simon Birmingham, with Wang Wentao not responding to a letter from Mr Tehan sent earlier this year.
Unless Australia can make amends to China, things will very probably get worse in the coming years. Is the alliance with the US worth it? And do you expect the US to be thankful to you?... :roll:

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