China and the US

Discussion of current events
neverfail
Posts: 6422
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: China and the US

Post by neverfail » Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:11 pm

cassowary wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:41 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 3:24 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:14 am
What I see is the truth, Neverfail.
Then why don't you publish it?
That’s what I did here.
What I read was a set of wild accusations against Sertorio that I thought were unjust.

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 4654
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: China and the US

Post by cassowary » Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:59 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:11 pm
cassowary wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:41 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 3:24 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:14 am
What I see is the truth, Neverfail.
Then why don't you publish it?
That’s what I did here.
What I read was a set of wild accusations against Sertorio that I thought were unjust.
I don’t think so. From his posts, I can Guess where he is coming from.
The Imp :D

neverfail
Posts: 6422
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: China and the US

Post by neverfail » Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:16 am

cassowary wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:59 am
I don’t think so. From his posts, I can Guess where he is coming from.
Well, apart from that.......

...... please read the link in my newly published discussion thread titled:

The Chinese Communist Party vs Western liberalism

https://davosman.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4883

May it cure you of your delusion that the Chinese people are going to rise up any time soon and replace one party rule by their Communist Party with Western style multi-party democracy.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4633
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: China and the US

Post by Sertorio » Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:27 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:33 pm

Xi Jinpeng did indeed stand tall at Davos in January 2017 and posture as the champion of international free trade. But beware of chinamen bearing enticing messages like that. When any representative of the CCP calls for free trade the unstated, duplicitious subscript seems to be you open up your markets to us but we do not feelo under the same obligation to do the same for you.
The Chinese have always been great traders, and present day China is no different. It is in China's interest to stimulate trade with all countries and therefore I do not see China closing the Chinese market to anyone, unless it is as a retaliation for sanctions or tariffs imposed on its products by countries such as the US.

neverfail
Posts: 6422
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: China and the US

Post by neverfail » Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:25 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:27 am

The Chinese have always been great traders, and present day China is no different. It is in China's interest to stimulate trade with all countries and therefore I do not see China closing the Chinese market to anyone, unless it is as a retaliation for sanctions or tariffs imposed on its products by countries such as the US.
:lol: On which planet have you been dwelling this past 70 years plus Sertorio?

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4633
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: China and the US

Post by Sertorio » Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:42 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:25 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:27 am

The Chinese have always been great traders, and present day China is no different. It is in China's interest to stimulate trade with all countries and therefore I do not see China closing the Chinese market to anyone, unless it is as a retaliation for sanctions or tariffs imposed on its products by countries such as the US.
:lol: On which planet have you been dwelling this past 70 years plus Sertorio?
Contrarily to you, I live very much at the center of the world and see what is really happening. You only see what the Australian media thinks you should be allowed to see...

neverfail
Posts: 6422
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: China and the US

Post by neverfail » Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:30 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:42 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:25 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:27 am

The Chinese have always been great traders, and present day China is no different. It is in China's interest to stimulate trade with all countries and therefore I do not see China closing the Chinese market to anyone, unless it is as a retaliation for sanctions or tariffs imposed on its products by countries such as the US.
:lol: On which planet have you been dwelling this past 70 years plus Sertorio?
Contrarily to you, I live very much at the center of the world and see what is really happening. You only see what the Australian media thinks you should be allowed to see...
Absolutely wrong! Australia has imposed no economic sanctions (apart from banning Huawei from participation from our %G rollout for national security reasons) yet they are now selectively closing their market to our products. Why are they doing that? Because the PRC leadership heasded by Xi Jinping has taken exception to our Prime Minister's diplomatic drive earlier this year for an independent World Health Organisation (WHO) investigation into the cause of the original COVID-19 eruption in Hubei province in China.

The strange thing is that the PRC government has since agreed to allow that investigation to go ahead but is now punishing Australia for having defied its wish.

Politics! The PRC is using economic sanctions purely to show us who is boss (and likley to make an example of us to deter other governments especially the ones around China's rim from defying the mighty PRC).

As such the PRC has become an unreliable trading partner because it views economics as a tool by which to extend and exercise power.

You say that you "do not see China closing the Chinese market to anyone" do you Sertorio? Well, time you removed those blinkers in order to observe what is happening in front of you.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4633
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: China and the US

Post by Sertorio » Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:59 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:30 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:42 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:25 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:27 am

The Chinese have always been great traders, and present day China is no different. It is in China's interest to stimulate trade with all countries and therefore I do not see China closing the Chinese market to anyone, unless it is as a retaliation for sanctions or tariffs imposed on its products by countries such as the US.
:lol: On which planet have you been dwelling this past 70 years plus Sertorio?
Contrarily to you, I live very much at the center of the world and see what is really happening. You only see what the Australian media thinks you should be allowed to see...
neverfail wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:30 pm
Absolutely wrong! Australia has imposed no economic sanctions (apart from banning Huawei from participation from our 5G rollout for national security reasons) yet they are now selectively closing their market to our products. Why are they doing that? Because the PRC leadership heasded by Xi Jinping has taken exception to our Prime Minister's diplomatic drive earlier this year for an independent World Health Organisation (WHO) investigation into the cause of the original COVID-19 eruption in Hubei province in China.

The strange thing is that the PRC government has since agreed to allow that investigation to go ahead but is now punishing Australia for having defied its wish.
Banning Huawei had nothing to do with national security, and it had everything to do with American arm twisting. Other countries - like Germany - have not banned Huawei, which shows there is no threat to national security. No wonder China was pissed.

It's not investigating the origin of the Covid 19 which bothered China, it was the Australian assumption that China was guilty of provoking the pandemic.

Both things were at the source of China's sanctions against Australia, not any wish of showing who is boss. Besides, both China and Russia have been the targets of sanctions by western countries, and I haven't seen you condemning them.
neverfail wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:30 pm
You say that you "do not see China closing the Chinese market to anyone" do you Sertorio? Well, time you removed those blinkers in order to observe what is happening in front of you.
Chinese economic restrictions on trade by foreign countries have always been applied as an answer to sanctions previously imposed on China by those countries. Never to unduly protect Chinese firms. Contrarily to what the US has frequently done.

neverfail
Posts: 6422
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: China and the US

Post by neverfail » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:17 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:59 pm

Banning Huawei had nothing to do with national security, and it had everything to do with American arm twisting.


To my understanding our government acted on advice received from the head of ASIO, our intelligence gathering and counter-espionage organisation: not from pressure from the White House..
It's not investigating the origin of the Covid 19 which bothered China, it was the Australian assumption that China was guilty of provoking the pandemic.
Nothing our PM or foreign Minister or any other accredited spokesperson for the Australian government said either then or since apportioned blame to China for the spread of the COVID-19 virus beyond its bounds.
Both things were at the source of China's sanctions against Australia, not any wish of showing who is boss. Besides, both China and Russia have been the targets of sanctions by western countries, and I haven't seen you condemning them.
Quite right I haven't Sertorio. Those sanctions were well deserved, fullsomely invited, by Russia and China whereas those currently being imposed by the PRC on us are entirely gratituous.
Chinese economic restrictions on trade by foreign countries have always been applied as an answer to sanctions previously imposed on China by those countries.
What sanctions have we imposed on PRC products to justify such retaliation? None at all! It reflects the pricklyness of the PRC leadership.

And it is now rebounding against China's best interests (I mean, other than demonstrating to the world that it is an untrustworthy place to do business with). This is an excerpt from Francisco Sisci in The Asia Times:
Then, there is the question of whether Beijing fully grasps the relationship between politics and the economy.

https://asiatimes.com/2020/12/the-cost- ... est-rates/

The FT reported: “In recent weeks, more than a dozen Chinese cities have imposed restrictions on electricity use as growing demand for energy owing to the country’s post-coronavirus economic recovery collides head-on with a shortage of thermal coal. The shortage underscores the dilemma Chinese authorities face in balancing their muscular approach to international diplomacy with the needs of the economy. Chinese energy and industrial groups have said the problem is partly due to an embargo on Australian coal imports, which many power plants in the country depend on, as tensions between Beijing and Canberra simmer.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4633
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: China and the US

Post by Sertorio » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:12 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:17 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:59 pm
Besides, both China and Russia have been the targets of sanctions by western countries, and I haven't seen you condemning them.
Quite right I haven't Sertorio. Those sanctions were well deserved, fullsomely invited, by Russia and China whereas those currently being imposed by the PRC on us are entirely gratituous.
Well deserved? You mean the double Novichok charade when Russia was supposed to want to poison some of its citizens, and then failed to do so? Is it sufficient for a couple of politicians to state that Russia's intent was "highly likely" for the use of Novichok by Russia to be considered proven? Or the legitimate exercise of the right of self-determination by the Crimean people (over 95% voted in favour of rejoining the Russian Federation)? Or the building of Nord-Stream 2 agreed upon by Germany and Russia? Or the accusation that China deliberately allowed the Covid 19 to infect the rest of the world?...

I'm waiting for you to condemn those sanctions as strongly as you accuse the sparse Chinese and Russian sanctions on third parties...

Post Reply