Now Lombardy!

Discussion of current events
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Sertorio
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Re: Now Lombardy!

Post by Sertorio » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:31 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:47 am

You may be dwelling on past glories if you imagine that southern Europe is likely to recover its historical leed soon.
I have no doubt whatsoever that the Southern/Mediterranean peoples will recover their preeminence. We will be at least as productive as Northerners and, on top of that, we will have a new cultural Renaissance based on our regained prosperity and on our greater harmony with the world around us. But, contrarily to Northerners, we will not fall again on the trap of Imperialism and of intolerance of those different from us. I will not see this happening, but it will happen...

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cassowary
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Re: Now Lombardy!

Post by cassowary » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:46 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:28 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:29 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:39 pm
In Calabria, the "toe" part of the italian boot they call themselves The 'Ndràngheta (the honourable society :lol: :cry: ) . This has an Australian offshoot that now dominates our illegal narcotics trade:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... trade.html
Just as a certain % of Muslim immigrants will be jihadists who want to kill infidels, there will be a certain % of Italian immigrants are Mafia who want to sell you drugs.
Overwhelmingly, the Italians have been a boon to this country. Just wish they had left this scum behind in darkest Calabria.

(P.S. thanks for your notes of appreciation cass.)
It's a pleasure to read what you write. You are a major reason why I come here. I learn a lot of interesting things from you.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Now Lombardy!

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:50 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:07 pm
I think as long as their population is small, assimilation is high.
And yet Canada has ten times as many Muslims per capita and no more problems with them than the U.S. does.

But what do I know? I've only worked with Muslims, taught Muslim students, had Muslim neighbours, and lived most of my life in the U.S. Obviously that means nothing when compared with a newspaper article from 2006. :roll:
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
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cassowary
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Re: Now Lombardy!

Post by cassowary » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:54 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:50 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:07 pm
I think as long as their population is small, assimilation is high.
And yet Canada has ten times as many Muslims per capita and no more problems with them than the U.S. does.
It is about 2% in the US and 3% in Canada. About the same. Wait till they get to 10% of the population.
But what do I know? I've only worked with Muslims, taught Muslim students, had Muslim neighbours, and lived most of my life in the U.S. Obviously that means nothing when compared with a newspaper article from 2006. :roll:
I have Muslims living in my house and they are OK. But that does not mean much. On a person to person level, they can be affable. But when it comes to group to group level, they will place demands on you. The larger the group, the greater the demands.

In Singapore, Muslims are 15% of the population. They have Sharia court applying a limited form of sharia. There are no Christian, Buddhist or Hindu courts. I have served in the army with them. They their own cookhouse because the food must be halal. They eat separately from the rest of us. So delicate are relations with the Muslim community that there is a minister in charge of Muslim affairs.

Needless to say, there are no ministers in charge for Christian, Buddhist, Hindu or Taoist affairs. Their faiths do not make relations with others in need for constant care. They will remain a distinct and seperate group.

I believe I have warm relations with the Muslims living in my home. They are from Indonesia, where they put a Christian Chinese politician in jail for blasphemy. Read about the Ah Hok case. Personal relation you enjoy with individual Muslim is not a good indicator of how they behave as a group.

When you are the only Muslim in class, peer pressure will force assimilation. They are only 2% of the US population now and so they appear to be assimilating. But this will grind to a halt after they get to 10% of the population.

neverfail
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Re: Now Lombardy!

Post by neverfail » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:49 am

cassowary wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:54 am

I have Muslims living in my house and they are OK. But that does not mean much. On a person to person level, they can be affable. But when it comes to group to group level, they will place demands on you. The larger the group, the greater the demands.

In Singapore, Muslims are 15% of the population. They have Sharia court applying a limited form of sharia. There are no Christian, Buddhist or Hindu courts. I have served in the army with them. They their own cookhouse because the food must be halal. They eat separately from the rest of us. So delicate are relations with the Muslim community that there is a minister in charge of Muslim affairs.
Cass, I have sometimes meant to ask you:

I have often noticed that your Singapore flag includes a crescent - normally the symbol of Islam. Is that there to help your domestic Muslims feel included or to convince your near neighbors, the Malaysians and Indonesians, that in Singapore you are really not such a bad bunch of kafirs after all? :lol:

neverfail
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Re: Now Lombardy!

Post by neverfail » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:53 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:31 am
neverfail wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:47 am

You may be dwelling on past glories if you imagine that southern Europe is likely to recover its historical leed soon.
I have no doubt whatsoever that the Southern/Mediterranean peoples will recover their preeminence. We will be at least as productive as Northerners and, on top of that, we will have a new cultural Renaissance based on our regained prosperity and on our greater harmony with the world around us. But, contrarily to Northerners, we will not fall again on the trap of Imperialism and of intolerance of those different from us. I will not see this happening, but it will happen...
Still reads like a sort of nationalistic "holier than thou" Sertorio. ;)

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Sertorio
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Re: Now Lombardy!

Post by Sertorio » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:10 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:53 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:31 am
neverfail wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:47 am

You may be dwelling on past glories if you imagine that southern Europe is likely to recover its historical leed soon.
I have no doubt whatsoever that the Southern/Mediterranean peoples will recover their preeminence. We will be at least as productive as Northerners and, on top of that, we will have a new cultural Renaissance based on our regained prosperity and on our greater harmony with the world around us. But, contrarily to Northerners, we will not fall again on the trap of Imperialism and of intolerance of those different from us. I will not see this happening, but it will happen...
Still reads like a sort of nationalistic "holier than thou" Sertorio. ;)
You see, northerns who come to the South to live and work end up being like us, because they live in the same environment. So, there is no sense of superiority on our side. We are not superior, we are just lucky we live in a much more pleasant environment, which fosters tolerance and stiffles any form of fundamentalism. And that has consequences...

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cassowary
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Re: Now Lombardy!

Post by cassowary » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:36 am

Sertorio, I don't understand why your environment fosters tolerance and no fundamentalism. What do you mean by fundamentalism anyway? Perhaps you mean extremism.

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cassowary
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Re: Now Lombardy!

Post by cassowary » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:37 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:49 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:54 am

I have Muslims living in my house and they are OK. But that does not mean much. On a person to person level, they can be affable. But when it comes to group to group level, they will place demands on you. The larger the group, the greater the demands.

In Singapore, Muslims are 15% of the population. They have Sharia court applying a limited form of sharia. There are no Christian, Buddhist or Hindu courts. I have served in the army with them. They their own cookhouse because the food must be halal. They eat separately from the rest of us. So delicate are relations with the Muslim community that there is a minister in charge of Muslim affairs.
Cass, I have sometimes meant to ask you:

I have often noticed that your Singapore flag includes a crescent - normally the symbol of Islam. Is that there to help your domestic Muslims feel included or to convince your near neighbors, the Malaysians and Indonesians, that in Singapore you are really not such a bad bunch of kafirs after all? :lol:




Yes.

neverfail
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Re: Now Lombardy!

Post by neverfail » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:51 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:36 am
Sertorio, I don't understand why your environment fosters tolerance and no fundamentalism. What do you mean by fundamentalism anyway? Perhaps you mean extremism.
Admittedly, there was a lot of power politics involved but a few centuries ago Iberia was a hotbed of official intolerance. Portugal expelled its Jews - (in the process transferring its diamond cutting and faceting knowhow to the low countries: which meant in turn that after Portuguese Brazil emerged as globally the biggest producer of raw gem quality diamonds; they had to be sent up to Amsterdam and Antwerp to be processed into gems instead of Portugal reaping the improved value of the gems being locally cut and polished and then exported :lol: ). You need not wonder why by the mid 19th century Portugal had become the poorest and most backward country in Europe west of Russia - a distinction it retained until after the end of the Salazar era in 1974. With ***kwits in charge of national development policies what could you expect?

Spain not only expelled its Jews but its Muslims also in their royalty's quest for national unity and the security of their realm. (Today, there are possibly Spaniards who wish that their long dead tyrant kings had expelled the Catalans while they were at it :lol: ).

But all of that is now water under the bridge. The fact that Iberia is today more tolerant is, I speculate, more likely local reflection of the fact that the Anglo-Saxon democracies are now the leading Global influence on the region :) . Iberia now has an image to maintain.

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