How Democratic Can Anglo Countries Ever Be?

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Sertorio
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How Democratic Can Anglo Countries Ever Be?

Post by Sertorio » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:26 am

PREGNANT Aussie woman handcuffed & charged with inciting anti-lockdown event on Facebook
2 Sep, 2020
https://www.rt.com/news/499668-australi ... -lockdown/

Australian law enforcers have arrested an expectant mother for allegedly planning a protest against the Covid-19 lockdown in the state of Victoria, drawing ire and accusations of thought policing online.
The Victoria Police descended on the woman’s house earlier in the day, presenting a search warrant and accusing her of “incitement” – ostensibly by making a Facebook post calling for a socially distanced rally against the quarantine measures across the state.

Videos of the 28-year-old – dressed in pajamas and visibly caught off-guard by the police intrusion – were widely shared on social media, showing her flanked and confronted by officers. One of them claims she broke the law “in relation to a Facebook post [and] in relation to the anti-lockdown protest,” while another puts the irons on her.

“In front of my children!” she counters, adding, “I’m happy to delete the post, this is ridiculous.” The woman also pleads with the officer to let her undergo a scheduled ultrasound scan, but those words appear to fall on deaf ears.

Those viewing and sharing the video seemed to be astonished at the reason for the 28-year-old’s arrest. Some enraged online commentators went as far as to call it “full-blown fascism in Australia,” while others referred to Orwellian narratives.

“Free speech is dead in Australia,” one proclaimed, calling officers a “thought police unit.”

As the day progressed, local media suggested the woman was organizing a “Freedom Day” protest rally on Facebook, scheduled to take place on Saturday. Now, she will have to stand trial at the Ballarat Magistrates’ Court in January next year.

Meanwhile, a controversial Liberal Party backbencher Craig Kelly, who staunchly opposes the lockdown, shared the video, saying it was “what you’d expect to see in Nazi Germany.”

The story comes as anti-lockdown sentiment, in response to the restrictions being heavy-handedly enforced across Melbourne and Victoria, is gaining traction. This weekend, a sizable cohort of protesters defied social distancing and mask-wearing rules. At one point, the gatherings descended into chaos and clashes with police, who made dozens of arrests.

Victoria’s lockdown measures involve a nighttime curfew, enforced by police. During the day, residents are only allowed to go outside for limited shopping, exercise, working, or seeing a doctor.

Australia’s coronavirus tally is approaching 26,000; at least 663 Covid-19 patients have succumbed to the disease as of Wednesday. The lingering coronavirus epidemic has taken a toll on the Australian economy and jobs, with officials previously admitting the country has now entered a recession.
New Zealand may be an exception, but when one sees what regularly happens in the US, UK and Australia, one cannot but wonder about how democratic Anglo countries really are...

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Milo
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Re: How Democratic Can Russia Ever Be?

Post by Milo » Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:32 am

Russian opposition leader Navalny poisoned with nerve agent similar to Novichok, Germany says

Loveday Morris
“Now it is evident: Navalny is a victim of a crime. He was supposed to be silenced,” German Chancellor Angela Merkel said at a news conference Wednesday, adding that she condemned the incident in the “strongest possible terms.”

“The world is expecting answers,” Merkel said. “The crime against Alexei Navalny is a crime against the basic values and basic rights that we stand for.”

What is Novichok, the nerve agent linked to the Navalny poisoning?

Navalny, the fiercest critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin, fell ill on a flight to Moscow from Tomsk in Siberia on Aug. 20, and aides said they were sure that he had been poisoned. He was rushed to a hospital in the Siberian city of Omsk after the plane was diverted.

Navalny was flown to Charité hospital in Berlin two days later, with his family and aides accusing Russian doctors of blocking his transfer for 48 hours. He remains at Charité in a medically induced coma.

German doctors announced Aug. 24 that he showed symptoms of poisoning with a cholinesterase inhibitor, a class of chemical agents that includes Novichok and other nerve agents. But Merkel said Wednesday that a German military hospital had found “unequivocal” evidence of a chemical nerve agent of the Novichok group.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... story.html

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Sertorio
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Re: How Democratic Can Russia Ever Be?

Post by Sertorio » Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:51 pm

Milo wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:32 am
Russian opposition leader Navalny poisoned with nerve agent similar to Novichok, Germany says

Loveday Morris
“Now it is evident: Navalny is a victim of a crime. He was supposed to be silenced,” German Chancellor Angela Merkel said at a news conference Wednesday, adding that she condemned the incident in the “strongest possible terms.”

“The world is expecting answers,” Merkel said. “The crime against Alexei Navalny is a crime against the basic values and basic rights that we stand for.”

What is Novichok, the nerve agent linked to the Navalny poisoning?

Navalny, the fiercest critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin, fell ill on a flight to Moscow from Tomsk in Siberia on Aug. 20, and aides said they were sure that he had been poisoned. He was rushed to a hospital in the Siberian city of Omsk after the plane was diverted.

Navalny was flown to Charité hospital in Berlin two days later, with his family and aides accusing Russian doctors of blocking his transfer for 48 hours. He remains at Charité in a medically induced coma.

German doctors announced Aug. 24 that he showed symptoms of poisoning with a cholinesterase inhibitor, a class of chemical agents that includes Novichok and other nerve agents. But Merkel said Wednesday that a German military hospital had found “unequivocal” evidence of a chemical nerve agent of the Novichok group.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... story.html
How truthful can Germans ever be?...

neverfail
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Re: How Democratic Can Russia Ever Be?

Post by neverfail » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:48 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:51 pm

How truthful can Germans ever be?...
In this case plenty truthful - unlike official spokesmen for Puitn's gangster state.

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Milo
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Re: How Democratic Can Anglo Countries Ever Be?

Post by Milo » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:55 pm

Sertorio is in good company!
The president of Belarus, Alexander Lukashenko, has claimed that his security forces intercepted German calls showing that the Kremlin foe Alexei Navalny’s poisoning was faked.

Lukashenko told the visiting Russian prime minister, Mikhail Mishustin, in Minsk that the call between Berlin and Warsaw showed that the incident was a “falsification”.

“There was no poisoning of Navalny,” Lukashenko told a poker-faced Mishustin during their televised meeting. “They did it – I quote – in order to discourage [Russian president Vladimir] Putin from sticking his nose into Belarus’s affairs.”

Lukashenko provided no further details but said he would hand over transcripts to Russia’s security services.

The authoritarian, longtime Belarusian leader is under huge pressure from opposition protesters demanding his resignation after a disputed presidential election on 9 August.

Tens of thousands of people have taken to the streets for weeks in unprecedented protests against Lukashenko’s 26-year rule.

The claim about Navalny could be aimed at currying favour with Moscow, which has voiced support for Lukashenko during the protests.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... t-evidence

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Sertorio
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Re: How Democratic Can Russia Ever Be?

Post by Sertorio » Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:43 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:48 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:51 pm

How truthful can Germans ever be?...
In this case plenty truthful - unlike official spokesmen for Puitn's gangster state.
Russians may be many things, but stupid is not one of them. If Russia had wanted to kill Navalny - which I very much doubt - the only method of killing they could never use is novichok, in view of past accusations. They could have pushed him under a bus, thrown him out of a plane, shot or strangled him, but NEVER poison him with novichok. If the Germans are saying they found novichok, either they are lying or they planted it themselves. One has to be a bit dumb to believe anything else.

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cassowary
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Re: How Democratic Can Anglo Countries Ever Be?

Post by cassowary » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:50 am

To answer your question, I think not much because the Anglo countries are not too left wing. The more Socialism, the more dictatorial it becomes.
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Re: How Democratic Can Russia Ever Be?

Post by neverfail » Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:21 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:43 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:48 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:51 pm

How truthful can Germans ever be?...
In this case plenty truthful - unlike official spokesmen for Puitn's gangster state.
Russians may be many things, but stupid is not one of them. If Russia had wanted to kill Navalny - which I very much doubt - the only method of killing they could never use is novichok, in view of past accusations. They could have pushed him under a bus, thrown him out of a plane, shot or strangled him, but NEVER poison him with novichok. If the Germans are saying they found novichok, either they are lying or they planted it themselves. One has to be a bit dumb to believe anything else.
I am surprised that Putin even allowed Navalny out of Russia for an independent, impartial assessment of his medical condition. It moves me to wonder whether this was a screw-up by the Russians (hubris leads to errors of judgeement?) or whether in was their intention to let him loose in The West so that as a consequence of the diagnosis other Russian opponents and critics of Putin will get the message 'this is what you can expect also if you continue to oppose Putin.'

You are right Sertorio, They are not stupid, just callous.

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Sertorio
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Re: How Democratic Can Russia Ever Be?

Post by Sertorio » Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:27 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:21 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:43 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:48 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:51 pm

How truthful can Germans ever be?...
In this case plenty truthful - unlike official spokesmen for Puitn's gangster state.
Russians may be many things, but stupid is not one of them. If Russia had wanted to kill Navalny - which I very much doubt - the only method of killing they could never use is novichok, in view of past accusations. They could have pushed him under a bus, thrown him out of a plane, shot or strangled him, but NEVER poison him with novichok. If the Germans are saying they found novichok, either they are lying or they planted it themselves. One has to be a bit dumb to believe anything else.
I am surprised that Putin even allowed Navalny out of Russia for an independent, impartial assessment of his medical condition. It moves me to wonder whether this was a screw-up by the Russians (hubris leads to errors of judgeement?) or whether in was their intention to let him loose in The West so that as a consequence of the diagnosis other Russian opponents and critics of Putin will get the message 'this is what you can expect also if you continue to oppose Putin.'

You are right Sertorio, They are not stupid, just callous.
Or innocent...Is presumption of innocence not part of your criminal code?...

neverfail
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Location: Singapore

Re: "democracy" does not mean disorder.

Post by neverfail » Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:09 am

Okay Sertorio! Now, to get away from this Russia crap for a time and return to the issue you inagurated at the start of this discussion:
PREGNANT Aussie woman handcuffed & charged with inciting anti-lockdown event on Facebook

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54007824

The arrest of a woman in Australia for promoting an anti-lockdown protest online has drawn criticism, after video of the incident went viral.
Footage shows officers handcuffing pregnant woman Zoe-Lee Buhler, 28, in her home in Victoria on Wednesday in front of her partner and children.
She starts crying during the arrest, telling police: "I didn't realise I was doing anything wrong."
Authorities have defended the officers, saying they acted appropriately.
Victoria has been in lockdown since July to curb a coronavirus outbreak that has fuelled Australia's second wave.
Authorities have imposed stay-at-home rules and a curfew in Melbourne, the state capital. The lockdown has closed many businesses and banned gatherings around the state.
If that lady was truthful in claiming "I didn't realise I was doing anything wrong" (she sounds naive so she probably was) then she must have been going around oblivious to the news of what was going on all around her.

The salient fact is that our state of Victoria (the second most popullous in Australia - state capital Melbourtne) is desperastely struggling to bring an out-of-control eruption of COVID-19 back into containment. It is the only state in Austeralia to have so far experienced a secondary epidemic like that - the consequence of incompetent quarintining of infected returnees from abroad in Melbourne. So the authorities down there have resorted to some drastic measures to bring this local but deadly epidemic under control.

I am certain those police officers making the arrest would have been doing so in compliance with the law - including the emergency legislation passed by the Victoria state parliament to empower police and other relevant authorities to better cope with the epidemic conditions. As for the woman's profession of ignorence well then, as a judge (father of a school classmate of mine at the time) informed me over half a century ago "ignorence of the law is no excuse for breaking it".

(That principle applies in every country in the world that uses English Common Law as the basis for its own legal system.)

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