The Indian view of the US-China rivalry

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cassowary
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The Indian view of the US-China rivalry

Post by cassowary » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:05 am

Donald Trump breaks the back of China by blacklisting the CCCC



"Breaking the Back" of China sounds like a hyperbole but this is TF Global, India's popular Social Media website and Indians love to exaggerate.

All I can say is that Xi is making enemies all over the world. Even the Russians have stopped selling S400 missiles to China.
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Re: The Indian view of the US-China rivalry

Post by neverfail » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:45 am

cassowary wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:05 am

All I can say is that Xi is making enemies all over the world. Even the Russians have stopped selling S400 missiles to China.
Yes, but they are selling a lot more oil and gas to China than they used to.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/R ... China.html

A train load of crude oil is a spot purchase but a pipeline is a long term committnent.

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Sertorio
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Re: The Indian view of the US-China rivalry

Post by Sertorio » Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:29 am

cassowary wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:05 am

All I can say is that Xi is making enemies all over the world.
China may be feared because it is strong and nationalistic. The US is feared because it is unreliable. In the end Asians will prefer a predictable strong power than an unpredictable decadent power...

neverfail
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Re: The Indian view of the US-China rivalry

Post by neverfail » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:24 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:29 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:05 am

All I can say is that Xi is making enemies all over the world.
China may be feared because it is strong and nationalistic. The US is feared because it is unreliable. In the end Asians will prefer a predictable strong power than an unpredictable decadent power...
The "unreliability" of the USa might be explained like tghis Sertorio:

There seems to be a tension between the numerically small collection of big wheels in Washingtom DC, who seem to get a thrill out of wieldihg global power; and the general populace who by and large cannot see how their country being a great power serves their own best interests.

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Sertorio
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Re: The Indian view of the US-China rivalry

Post by Sertorio » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:35 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:24 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:29 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:05 am

All I can say is that Xi is making enemies all over the world.
China may be feared because it is strong and nationalistic. The US is feared because it is unreliable. In the end Asians will prefer a predictable strong power than an unpredictable decadent power...
The "unreliability" of the USa might be explained like tghis Sertorio:

There seems to be a tension between the numerically small collection of big wheels in Washingtom DC, who seem to get a thrill out of wieldihg global power; and the general populace who by and large cannot see how their country being a great power serves their own best interests.
In my view the US is unreliable because its leaders are deeply unethical and are willing to harm all others in their pursuit of profit at any cost. When money and profit are your only concerns, that is bound to happen.

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cassowary
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Re: The Indian view of the US-China rivalry

Post by cassowary » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:49 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:29 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:05 am

All I can say is that Xi is making enemies all over the world.
China may be feared because it is strong and nationalistic. The US is feared because it is unreliable. In the end Asians will prefer a predictable strong power than an unpredictable decadent power...
You obviously don't know Asia. But then again, you don't know Europe either.

There is a de facto alliance between the US, Japan, Taiwan, India and Australia against China. Most Asians welcome the US presence.
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Re: The Indian view of the US-China rivalry

Post by neverfail » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:01 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:49 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:29 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:05 am

All I can say is that Xi is making enemies all over the world.
China may be feared because it is strong and nationalistic. The US is feared because it is unreliable. In the end Asians will prefer a predictable strong power than an unpredictable decadent power...
You obviously don't know Asia. But then again, you don't know Europe either.

There is a de facto alliance between the US, Japan, Taiwan, India and Australia against China. Most Asians welcome the US presence.
I agree with you on the existence of such an informal alliance. I Would however rather think of it as alliance to curb PRC ambition rather than anti-China.

Alas, I believe that in a contest of strength, especially if China is backed by Russia, this geographically discontinuous, diverse alliance of mutual convenience will fail.

The first weak link is Japan - which is loath to dispense with thwe pacifist clause in its national constitution to make its armed forces fit for war again. If Japan were to bite that bullet it would likely alarm the Koreans so much that South Korea would turn against it and who knows what North Korea might do? Possibly even use its nukes.

Second weak link is India: the only alliance member who shares a common terrestial border with the PRC. Just as bad it shares an even more exposed frontier with (also nuclear armed) Pakistan. That must absorb a lot of India's military/diplomatic energy limiting what it can do elsewhere.

Australia is normally most resolute as a US ally but unfortunately beholden to China as our biggest (and most energetic) external trading partner. Which is why we are now a country working at cross-purposes over China - and anything that could push this country into a more beligerant posture is likely to strain it's committment to breaking point. When I think back I realise that over the past century as firstly an ally of Britain and more latterly of the United States it was relatively easy for Australia to be supportive of these kindred but distant allies because there was little cost to us involved. We had -previously traded little with the powers we went to war against - regardless of whether the Central Powers of WW!; the Axis powers of WW2; Korea, Vietnam; Iraq or Afghanistan. But the PRC is different because our econonic wellbeing is so reliant on this country's purchases. So that restrains and dampens our enthusiasm for confronting the dragon.

The USA. Loopy domestic politics make the big power in the alliance hard to predict let alone manage (for we who are trying to talk sense to it). In addition the American public demonstrated their impatience back in the 1960's with governments that get them into long wars that involve sacrifice in distasnt parts; in defence of obscure countries of no obvious value in the defence of the USA itself. They did so with what amounted to a gigantic public mutuny against the Johnson administration and its Vietnam policy.

China's strength is gathered together in one spot (which gives it the perennial tactical advantage) while the alliance membership is diffuse and reactive.

Conclusion = the alliance is potentially a recipe for discord and disappointment.

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Re: The Indian view of the US-China rivalry

Post by Jim the Moron » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:16 pm

"Could Russia side with the US and India against China?"
https://scmp.com/week-asia/politics/art ... inst-china

An article well calculated to trigger heartburn among several of our posters . . .

Is it Vladivostok, or is it tongzhi dongfang, or is it Haishenwei? You pays your money . . .

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Sertorio
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Re: The Indian view of the US-China rivalry

Post by Sertorio » Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:44 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:16 pm
"Could Russia side with the US and India against China?"
https://scmp.com/week-asia/politics/art ... inst-china

An article well calculated to trigger heartburn among several of our posters . . .

Is it Vladivostok, or is it tongzhi dongfang, or is it Haishenwei? You pays your money . . .
I don't think that Russia will ever side with anyone against China. But if a lasting partnership could be established between Europe and Russia, it is possible that Russia might decide not to attach itself too closely to China. But for that Europe must first free itself from America and from the poisonous American alliance.

neverfail
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Re: The Indian view of the US-China rivalry

Post by neverfail » Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:32 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:16 pm
"Could Russia side with the US and India against China?"
https://scmp.com/week-asia/politics/art ... inst-china
Chinese feelings over Vladivostok, which once belonged to China, remain high. The modern-day territory of Primorsky Krai, of which Vladivostok is the administrative capital, was part of the Qing dynasty’s Manchurian territory before it was annexed by the Tsarist empire in 1860 after China’s defeat at the hands of Britain and France during the second opium war.
The Chinese sense of history is full of humbug. Primorsky Krai was MANCHU territory. It became annexed to China only because the Manchu invaded China and then moved their capital to Beijing. But the Chinese still pretend that the Manchu were reallyu Ch8inese just as (back reference to earlier hyistory) thyey pretend that Genghis Khan and Kublau Khan were really Chinese: to evade having to make the face losing acknowledgement that thei were done over (not for the last time either) by a nation of barbarian foreignors. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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