Syria and the Will of the People

Discussion of current events
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Sertorio
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Re: Syria and the Will of the People

Post by Sertorio » Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:12 pm

dagbay wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:11 pm
Sertorio,
I take issue with your position;
"What I have been driving at is that neither Israelis/Jews are angels, nor Arabs/Muslims are devils. There are great people and murderous fanatics on both sides." - in principle you can make a statement of this type for any two opposing groups of people BUT while Arabs elevate their numerous murderers to high honors and pay salaries to their families, teach their legacy to kindergarten kids and encourage followers, Jews condemne such rare offenders of human decency and incarcerate them. Drawing the equivalence as you did is offensive to the truth.
"Peace in the ME requires a level of tolerance that neither tribe seems to be able to muster." - No, Again the equivalence that you draw is false and offensive. Arabs were given ample opportunities to reach a settlement but refused each and every generous offer for they want it All. They will end with nothing.
"The path to that peace requires for Jews and Palestinians (West Bankers only) to live together in a non-exclusive Israel where the Jewish majority would welcome the Arab minority, and the Palestinian minority would learn to sincerely cooperate with the majority. I sincerely believe this is not only feasible but also not all that difficult to achieve. But Israel would have to become a secular state with freedom of worship for Jews, Muslims and Christians. Which would be guaranteed by the highly developed Jewish majority. Muslim and Jewish fundamentalists might try to prevent it happening, but I think the sane majority on both sides would prevail." - We've been through that already.... Most Israelis disagree and their position is born of the Arab violence and their practice of Taqquia. Given that the Arabs are very welcome in Euroba formally known as Europe and that the youth are migrating to that part of the world and to south America in large numbers even during the Wuhan virus lockdown I suggest that you must be dreaming.
I don't think that you really disagree with what I suggested, the problem with you and with most Israelis is that sharing is not part of your vocabulary. And demonizing Arabs beyond what would be reasonable is your way to justify your refusal to share. The majority of Arab Muslims are decent people, even if they let themselves be manipulated by the extremists, but you will never accept that. We have in Portugal a small number of Muslims - about 50,000 - and we have never had any acts of terrorism. They have freedom of religion, they have a large mosque in Lisbon, their imam is a most peaceful person, and they have easily integrated in our society. We treat them like we do any other community, and they seem to be satisfied with that.

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dagbay
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Re: Syria and the Will of the People

Post by dagbay » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:06 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:12 pm
dagbay wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:11 pm
Sertorio,
I take issue with your position;
"What I have been driving at is that neither Israelis/Jews are angels, nor Arabs/Muslims are devils. There are great people and murderous fanatics on both sides." - in principle you can make a statement of this type for any two opposing groups of people BUT while Arabs elevate their numerous murderers to high honors and pay salaries to their families, teach their legacy to kindergarten kids and encourage followers, Jews condemne such rare offenders of human decency and incarcerate them. Drawing the equivalence as you did is offensive to the truth.
"Peace in the ME requires a level of tolerance that neither tribe seems to be able to muster." - No, Again the equivalence that you draw is false and offensive. Arabs were given ample opportunities to reach a settlement but refused each and every generous offer for they want it All. They will end with nothing.
"The path to that peace requires for Jews and Palestinians (West Bankers only) to live together in a non-exclusive Israel where the Jewish majority would welcome the Arab minority, and the Palestinian minority would learn to sincerely cooperate with the majority. I sincerely believe this is not only feasible but also not all that difficult to achieve. But Israel would have to become a secular state with freedom of worship for Jews, Muslims and Christians. Which would be guaranteed by the highly developed Jewish majority. Muslim and Jewish fundamentalists might try to prevent it happening, but I think the sane majority on both sides would prevail." - We've been through that already.... Most Israelis disagree and their position is born of the Arab violence and their practice of Taqquia. Given that the Arabs are very welcome in Euroba formally known as Europe and that the youth are migrating to that part of the world and to south America in large numbers even during the Wuhan virus lockdown I suggest that you must be dreaming.
I don't think that you really disagree with what I suggested, the problem with you and with most Israelis is that sharing is not part of your vocabulary. And demonizing Arabs beyond what would be reasonable is your way to justify your refusal to share. The majority of Arab Muslims are decent people, even if they let themselves be manipulated by the extremists, but you will never accept that. We have in Portugal a small number of Muslims - about 50,000 - and we have never had any acts of terrorism. They have freedom of religion, they have a large mosque in Lisbon, their imam is a most peaceful person, and they have easily integrated in our society. We treat them like we do any other community, and they seem to be satisfied with that.
Muslims ate well behaved generally in all host countries until.....their numbers become about 2% of the country's population. When that point is reached you will "enjoy" Islam's "peaceful" nature. Above that critical mass things go downhill and fast just look around Europe (without colored glasses).
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Syria and the Will of the People

Post by Jim the Moron » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:38 pm

"Muslims are well behaved generally in all host countries until . . ." radical Muslim clergy win over young folks to violent actions against non-Muslims.

neverfail
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Location: Singapore

Re: Syria and the Will of the People

Post by neverfail » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:45 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:12 pm
We have in Portugal a small number of Muslims - about 50,000 - and we have never had any acts of terrorism. They have freedom of religion, they have a large mosque in Lisbon, their imam is a most peaceful person, and they have easily integrated in our society. We treat them like we do any other community, and they seem to be satisfied with that.
As Dagbay points out: as long as they are small in number they are normally good mannered towards the non-Muslims around them - probably mindful that their wellbeing depends upon the continuing goodwill of those non-muslims. With the growth in their numbers comes greater confidence and the quest for power then supercedes the earlier display of respect.

Might Portugal's Muslims remain numerically small so that your country is spared having to endure the gamut of Islamic power politics.

neverfail
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Location: Singapore

Re: Syria and the Will of the People

Post by neverfail » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:56 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:38 pm
"Muslims are well behaved generally in all host countries until . . ." radical Muslim clergy win over young folks to violent actions against non-Muslims.
...bearing in mind that there is not and has never been a religious extremist whose real motive (usually unstated and hidden) is a craving for POWER.

Forget the display of righteous indignation charactistic of this type - that is merely their archtypal tool of trade. A religious extremist is a political manipulator in disguise.

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Sertorio
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Re: Syria and the Will of the People

Post by Sertorio » Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:42 am

dagbay wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:06 pm

Muslims ate well behaved generally in all host countries until.....their numbers become about 2% of the country's population. When that point is reached you will "enjoy" Islam's "peaceful" nature. Above that critical mass things go downhill and fast just look around Europe (without colored glasses).
Having quickly looked at the situation in France, I have found that in 2017, 17,899 people in French prisons asked for a particular treatment during Ramadan, which may mean that such was the number of Muslims in prison. The most common figure given for Muslims in France is about 5 million, so that 0.38% of Muslims are, at any given time, in prison, for whatever reason. Of course about 18 thousand criminals are a lot of people and they can do a lot of harm. But the vast majority of Muslims in France is peaceful, so that there is no reason to think that the presence of Muslims in any society is, per se, a danger to that society. Also, many Muslims are not criminal because they are Muslim, but because they belong to the poorer segment of the population. Even so I would agree to special care being given to such presence and that all violent Muslims should be expelled from the country, once their jail term is over.

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dagbay
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Re: Syria and the Will of the People

Post by dagbay » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:01 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:42 am
dagbay wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:06 pm

Muslims ate well behaved generally in all host countries until.....their numbers become about 2% of the country's population. When that point is reached you will "enjoy" Islam's "peaceful" nature. Above that critical mass things go downhill and fast just look around Europe (without colored glasses).
Having quickly looked at the situation in France, I have found that in 2017, 17,899 people in French prisons asked for a particular treatment during Ramadan, which may mean that such was the number of Muslims in prison. The most common figure given for Muslims in France is about 5 million, so that 0.38% of Muslims are, at any given time, in prison, for whatever reason. Of course about 18 thousand criminals are a lot of people and they can do a lot of harm. But the vast majority of Muslims in France is peaceful, so that there is no reason to think that the presence of Muslims in any society is, per se, a danger to that society. Also, many Muslims are not criminal because they are Muslim, but because they belong to the poorer segment of the population. Even so I would agree to special care being given to such presence and that all violent Muslims should be expelled from the country, once their jail term is over.
They are by far model citizens Sertorio.you are welcome to them all.
I guess you are blind to the trouble they cause in those areas where they concentrate such as Nice,Paris....
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

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Sertorio
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Re: Syria and the Will of the People

Post by Sertorio » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:27 am

dagbay wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:01 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:42 am
dagbay wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:06 pm

Muslims ate well behaved generally in all host countries until.....their numbers become about 2% of the country's population. When that point is reached you will "enjoy" Islam's "peaceful" nature. Above that critical mass things go downhill and fast just look around Europe (without colored glasses).
Having quickly looked at the situation in France, I have found that in 2017, 17,899 people in French prisons asked for a particular treatment during Ramadan, which may mean that such was the number of Muslims in prison. The most common figure given for Muslims in France is about 5 million, so that 0.38% of Muslims are, at any given time, in prison, for whatever reason. Of course about 18 thousand criminals are a lot of people and they can do a lot of harm. But the vast majority of Muslims in France is peaceful, so that there is no reason to think that the presence of Muslims in any society is, per se, a danger to that society. Also, many Muslims are not criminal because they are Muslim, but because they belong to the poorer segment of the population. Even so I would agree to special care being given to such presence and that all violent Muslims should be expelled from the country, once their jail term is over.
They are by far model citizens Sertorio.you are welcome to them all.
I guess you are blind to the trouble they cause in those areas where they concentrate such as Nice,Paris....
Black people in the US cause more trouble than Muslims in France. Should Black people be expelled from the US?...

neverfail
Posts: 5828
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Syria and the Will of the People

Post by neverfail » Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:54 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:27 am


Black people in the US cause more trouble than Muslims in France. Should Black people be expelled from the US?...
Presently they seem to be being shot by police instead of expelled.

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