Why do Democrats defend disorder?

Discussion of current events
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dagbay
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Re: Why do Democrats defend disorder?

Post by dagbay » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:04 am

Milo wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:44 am
dagbay wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:01 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:40 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:45 am
I have a theory. The Left lives in cloud cuckoo land. They believe in Socialism, where everybody is taken cared of by the state. It does not work, never worked before and never will work.
Your first fallacy is to presume that the Democrats Party of the United States is "left wing" - as in left wing Marxist-Leninist. As far as I am concerned; as one half of the two party duopoly of political power over there there is absolutely no idealogocal difference between the Democrats and Republicans - only some occasional differences in policy.

I have made a Google enquiry on the topic: Have some city mayors in the United States ordered police to stand aside and permit rioting? . The responses I got make no mention of this but repeatedly note instances of police brutality.
Typical was this Wikipedia assessment:

The protests spread to over 2,000 cities and towns in all 50 states[4] and all 5 permanently-inhabited territories,[5][6][7][8][9] as well as in over 60 other countries, with demonstrators supporting those seeking justice for Floyd and the wider Black Lives Matter movement, and speaking out against police brutality. Many cities have seen continuous protests since Floyd's killing; New York City had seen 21 consecutive days of protests as of June 17, 2020.[10] The vast majority of demonstrations have been peaceful, but some large cities saw large scale rioting, looting, and burning of businesses and police cars.[11][12][13] There were also many instances of police brutality.[14] The wave of protests and unrest has been compared to the long, hot summer of 1967 and the King assassination riots, both of which saw riots in over a hundred cities across the United States.[15]

In black ghettos throughout the United States I believe that police are almost universally regarded as "the enemy" - not as upholders of justice. Consequently, police tactics, even their mere presence, can be counterproductive in that it inflames yet more fury among protestors. . As before the 1968 riots the rage has been building up in that quarter for decades and with the killing of George Floyd as trigger has finally boiled over.

Nothing to do with socialism at all.

If you are sincere about what you publish Cassowary then beware: because it is you who are living in cloud cuckoo land advocating a lie.
NF, beware of getting your information from Google and Wikipedia as well as many of their peer sources. It is obvious from here that they are actively pulling the progressive line. Blatantly shutting down any opposition to their narrative. These sources tell twisted truths in many cases and definitely take sides. A telatell sign is when you find no opposing view from any major source. It doesn't mean that everyone agrees on the issue - that is always an unlikely possibility in politics and history.
OK, so what SPECIFICALLY is "twisted" above?
In the age of the "cancel culture" opinion polls cannot be remotely accurate.
With blatantly biased and partisan MSM and big tech "truths" are often misrepresented or brazenly substituted for outright lies.
Party affiliates often misrepresent their positions to placate everyone.
Science is politicized such that research is channeled by fame and politics rather than facts and valid test protocols. (Selecting conditions that are certain to deliver the desired results even though not addressing the relevant questions).
Those should be enough to illustrate the point.
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

neverfail
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Re: Why do Democrats defend disorder?

Post by neverfail » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:25 pm

dagbay wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:04 am

In the age of the "cancel culture" opinion polls cannot be remotely accurate.
With blatantly biased and partisan MSM and big tech "truths" are often misrepresented or brazenly substituted for outright lies.
Party affiliates often misrepresent their positions to placate everyone.
Science is politicized such that research is channeled by fame and politics rather than facts and valid test protocols. (Selecting conditions that are certain to deliver the desired results even though not addressing the relevant questions).
Those should be enough to illustrate the point.
:roll: If you dislike the message then shoot the messenger?

The only point such aspersion casting illustrates, daggy, is your incapacity to say anything posative in reply. :)

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armchair_pundit
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Re: Why do Democrats defend disorder?

Post by armchair_pundit » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:18 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:25 pm
dagbay wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:04 am

In the age of the "cancel culture" opinion polls cannot be remotely accurate.
With blatantly biased and partisan MSM and big tech "truths" are often misrepresented or brazenly substituted for outright lies.
Party affiliates often misrepresent their positions to placate everyone.
Science is politicized such that research is channeled by fame and politics rather than facts and valid test protocols. (Selecting conditions that are certain to deliver the desired results even though not addressing the relevant questions).
Those should be enough to illustrate the point.
:roll: If you dislike the message then shoot the messenger?
He answered your questions quite succinctly and on target. Don't like the message?

Of course, again (and again and again and again) we Americans are so glad we have you to splain our country, culture, history and politics to us.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Why do Democrats defend disorder?

Post by Jim the Moron » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:55 pm

armchair_pundit wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:18 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:25 pm
dagbay wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:04 am

In the age of the "cancel culture" opinion polls cannot be remotely accurate.
With blatantly biased and partisan MSM and big tech "truths" are often misrepresented or brazenly substituted for outright lies.
Party affiliates often misrepresent their positions to placate everyone.
Science is politicized such that research is channeled by fame and politics rather than facts and valid test protocols. (Selecting conditions that are certain to deliver the desired results even though not addressing the relevant questions).
Those should be enough to illustrate the point.
:roll: If you dislike the message then shoot the messenger?
He answered your questions quite succinctly and on target. Don't like the message?

Of course, again (and again and again and again) we Americans are so glad we have you to splain our country, culture, history and politics to us.
What? Are you intimating that after all these years of accepting n'fail's opinions on matters American, I have been duped? Heck, I had even thrown away my old middle school civics text in response to n'fails presumed superior guidance.

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lzzrdgrrl
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Re: Why do Democrats defend disorder?

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:38 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:45 am
I have a theory. The Left lives in cloud cuckoo land. They believe in Socialism, where everybody is taken cared of by the state. It does not work, never worked before and never will work.
I have a darker vision. True that a quest for Utopia exists, but in a Freudian impulse similar to returning to the Womb. More imminent is resentment and mania driven by shame and humiliation....

Socialism took off in the 20 c. in societies that compared themselves to the success, potency and competence of the leaders in the West and found themselves wanting. Marxism and Gnostic nationalist tribalism provided escape to excessive self reckoning and blame by ascribing that success to deception, fraud and political matriculation......

Also humans don't want to survive without meaning and the collapse of religion is not good riddance. There is a monster down there given to primal impulses and it can be quite happy in dying if its fingers are around the throat of the focus of its rage........
I have a certain notoriety among the lesser gods........

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cassowary
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Re: Why do Democrats defend disorder?

Post by cassowary » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:32 pm

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:38 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:45 am
I have a theory. The Left lives in cloud cuckoo land. They believe in Socialism, where everybody is taken cared of by the state. It does not work, never worked before and never will work.
I have a darker vision. True that a quest for Utopia exists, but in a Freudian impulse similar to returning to the Womb. More imminent is resentment and mania driven by shame and humiliation....

Socialism took off in the 20 c. in societies that compared themselves to the success, potency and competence of the leaders in the West and found themselves wanting. Marxism and Gnostic nationalist tribalism provided escape to excessive self reckoning and blame by ascribing that success to deception, fraud and political matriculation......

Also humans don't want to survive without meaning and the collapse of religion is not good riddance. There is a monster down there given to primal impulses and it can be quite happy in dying if its fingers are around the throat of the focus of its rage........
Very true. This reminds me of a book I read Long ago. In one chapter, it described the behaviour of poor third world Farmers towards one who was successful.

The successful farmer was resourceful and diligent. He raised bountiful crops. The other villagers who did not succeed suspected him of witchcraft. They accused him of raising the dead to do the work at night. Then they killed him and stole his grain.

There was another story I read. It was in the Middle Ages and a time of the plague. There was a Jewish family who somehow survived without any death in the family unlike their Christian neighbours. According to the writer, it was Jewish custom to wash their hands before prayers.

Thus this family would wash their hands before saying grace for a meal. This simple practice saved them from the plague. But their neighbours were convinced that they practiced witchcraft.

Both instances among primitive people have its parallel in modern day America or in fact almost every country. You have successful people thriving in the capitalist system.

Instead of a primitive belief in witchcraft, those envious believe their failures think that capitalism has exploited them. This primitive phenomenon also involves race. The blacks in America are still behind the whites in income level.

So they believe that racism is the cause. The conjunction of race and socialism is the modern day equivalent of witchcraft believed by our ancestors. It fuels rage and destruction.

We moderns are not so different from our ancestors of from the remaining primitive people. The same dark side remains but updated with different clothes.
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: Why do Democrats defend disorder?

Post by Sertorio » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:46 am

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:38 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:45 am
I have a theory. The Left lives in cloud cuckoo land. They believe in Socialism, where everybody is taken cared of by the state. It does not work, never worked before and never will work.
I have a darker vision. True that a quest for Utopia exists, but in a Freudian impulse similar to returning to the Womb. More imminent is resentment and mania driven by shame and humiliation....

Socialism took off in the 20 c. in societies that compared themselves to the success, potency and competence of the leaders in the West and found themselves wanting. Marxism and Gnostic nationalist tribalism provided escape to excessive self reckoning and blame by ascribing that success to deception, fraud and political matriculation......

Also humans don't want to survive without meaning and the collapse of religion is not good riddance. There is a monster down there given to primal impulses and it can be quite happy in dying if its fingers are around the throat of the focus of its rage........
Do not confuse Socialism with Marxism. Socialism is all about human rights and social justice, not about pushing humanity into an imaginary perfect model of society. Just like in the 19th century many people couldn't realize that slavery was unethical and inhuman, nowadays there are still people who cannot understand the ethical justification of Socialism. Nothing to do with religion.

Humans may not want to live without meaning, but Socialism is not the answer. And if you come to think of it, neither is religion...

neverfail
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Re: I TREAT THEM ALL EQUALLY JIM.

Post by neverfail » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:17 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:55 pm
What? Are you intimating that after all these years of accepting n'fail's opinions on matters American, I have been duped? Heck, I had even thrown away my old middle school civics text in response to n'fails presumed superior guidance.
Oh Jim have you not noticed that it is not just the USA I have had in the crosshairs of my analytic criticism. I do it for just about all of them; sparing none what they have earned on merit.

Of course, my commentry on other countries might have escaped your attention: yours being almost God's own country inhabited by the almost chosen people and all that. :D

neverfail
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Re: Why do Democrats defend disorder?

Post by neverfail » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:24 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:46 am
Humans may not want to live without meaning, but Socialism is not the answer. And if you come to think of it, neither is religion...
Not wrong there! I believe that it was one of the great Russian writers of the 19th century (I forget whether Fyodor Dostoevsky or Leo Tolstoy) who observed that there is nothing as potent as conventional religion for standing between God and man.

Which is why I normally focus my attention on cultivating my relationship with God.

What about you?

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Sertorio
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Re: Why do Democrats defend disorder?

Post by Sertorio » Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:37 am

neverfail wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:24 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:46 am
Humans may not want to live without meaning, but Socialism is not the answer. And if you come to think of it, neither is religion...
Not wrong there! I believe that it was one of the great Russian writers of the 19th century (I forget whether Fyodor Dostoevsky or Leo Tolstoy) who observed that there is nothing as potent as conventional religion for standing between God and man.

Which is why I normally focus my attention on cultivating my relationship with God.

What about you?
Religious people, or believers, think that next to the material world there is a spiritual one, made up of spirits, without any connection with matter. They believe in angels, in demons, in god(s) and in souls as the spiritual side of everyone of us. This, to me, doesn't make any sense. There cannot be existence and life without a physical support. Most believers seem to think that our self-consciousness is a spiritual being, when in fact it is the product of our brain and mind. Kill the brain and that self-consciousness disappears - dies. Therefore I do not believe possible a relationship with God, a spiritual being. Our minds created such a being as an answer to the death of the self, a difficult thing for most of us to accept. Because we find it difficult to realize that there is a "self" attached to every conscious being, and that the death of a particular "self" only shifts the awareness to another "self", which has no relation to the first but has all the attributes. Each one of us is like a cell in our organism. When a particular cell dies, the organism does not die, and doesn't even realize that cell has died. Once we overcome our individualistic, personal vision of the universe we solve our relationship with death. Without any need for a God...

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