"Chinee man speak with forked tongue."

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cassowary
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Re: Hypocrisy over opposition to China's claims to those islands.

Post by cassowary » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:59 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:16 pm
cassowary wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:25 pm

Taiwan has implicitly not claimed the South China Sea. China has explicitly claimed the sea. That's another important difference. Now, what I would like to see is that Taiwan explicitly state that it does not claim the S China Sea.
What does that mean, "claim the sea"?... Does it mean preventing other nations from navigating through it? You know it doesn't...
Claim ownership. Thus anyone sailing through the sea must do so with China's permission.
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Location: Singapore

Re: Hypocrisy over opposition to China's claims to those islands.

Post by neverfail » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:33 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:16 pm
cassowary wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:25 pm

Taiwan has implicitly not claimed the South China Sea. China has explicitly claimed the sea. That's another important difference. Now, what I would like to see is that Taiwan explicitly state that it does not claim the S China Sea.
What does that mean, "claim the sea"?... Does it mean preventing other nations from navigating through it? You know it doesn't...
The Republic of China was historically the first to lay claim to ownership of the islets, reefs and shoals of the South China sea:
The Republic of China claimed owner- ship of all islands in the South China Sea, even though it only occupies two larger islands.

https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/c ... %20islands.
It did so as a move to pre-empt the French: who in early 1946 were then sending an armed expeditionary force to re-impose their colonial rule on Indochina. Before teh Second World War France had lain claim to the reefs, shoals and islets of the South China Sea as an extension to its indochina empire. Unlike the Americans in the Philippines (soverign independence granted in 1946) and the British in India (independence given 1947) the French, possibly as a consolation for the recent historical experience of having been overrun and occupied by Nazi Germany were determined to hang on to every corner of their empire - likely as a salve for bruised pride.

The only other continental European power in south east Asia, the Netherlands in Indonesia, attempted to do them same. It likewise had been overrun and occupied by the Third Reich.

:lol: The Anglo-Saxon powers were content to cede independence while the more irredentist continental European ones, probably as consolation for bruised pride, wanted their overseas empires back. :D

(The Anglos were content to move foreward while the continentals strove to set the clock back :lol: )

But I digress.
An exclusive economic zone extends from the baseline to a maximum of 200 nautical miles (370.4 km; 230.2 mi), thus it includes the contiguous zone. A coastal nation has control of all economic resources within its exclusive economic zone, including fishing, mining, oil exploration, and any pollution of those resources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters
Whoever can establish soverignty over the islets, shoals and reefs automatically owns the seabed and waters as well. Under the prevailing law of the sea there is no such thing as owning the islands but not the surrounding seas.

Cassowary, please take note!

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Sertorio
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Re: Hypocrisy over opposition to China's claims to those islands.

Post by Sertorio » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:46 am

cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:59 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:16 pm
cassowary wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:25 pm

Taiwan has implicitly not claimed the South China Sea. China has explicitly claimed the sea. That's another important difference. Now, what I would like to see is that Taiwan explicitly state that it does not claim the S China Sea.
What does that mean, "claim the sea"?... Does it mean preventing other nations from navigating through it? You know it doesn't...
Claim ownership. Thus anyone sailing through the sea must do so with China's permission.
Wrong. There are international conventions to deal with that issue...

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cassowary
Posts: 4118
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: Hypocrisy over opposition to China's claims to those islands.

Post by cassowary » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:32 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:46 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:59 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:16 pm
cassowary wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:25 pm

Taiwan has implicitly not claimed the South China Sea. China has explicitly claimed the sea. That's another important difference. Now, what I would like to see is that Taiwan explicitly state that it does not claim the S China Sea.
What does that mean, "claim the sea"?... Does it mean preventing other nations from navigating through it? You know it doesn't...
Claim ownership. Thus anyone sailing through the sea must do so with China's permission.
Wrong. There are international conventions to deal with that issue...
Sertorio, where have you been? Planet Mars? Can't you see that China does not care about international conventions?
The Imp :D

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Doc
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Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: Hypocrisy over opposition to China's claims to those islands.

Post by Doc » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:37 am

cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:32 am
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:46 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:59 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:16 pm
cassowary wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:25 pm

Taiwan has implicitly not claimed the South China Sea. China has explicitly claimed the sea. That's another important difference. Now, what I would like to see is that Taiwan explicitly state that it does not claim the S China Sea.
What does that mean, "claim the sea"?... Does it mean preventing other nations from navigating through it? You know it doesn't...
Claim ownership. Thus anyone sailing through the sea must do so with China's permission.
Wrong. There are international conventions to deal with that issue...
Sertorio, where have you been? Planet Mars? Can't you see that China does not care about international conventions?
Indeed

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
Posts: 5590
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Hypocrisy over opposition to China's claims to those islands.

Post by neverfail » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:49 pm

cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:32 am
Sertorio, where have you been? Planet Mars? Can't you see that China does not care about international conventions?
Just like the Third Reich "pushing the envelope" of international tolerance in the years before the outbreak of the Second World War?

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Sertorio
Posts: 3827
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Hypocrisy over opposition to China's claims to those islands.

Post by Sertorio » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:53 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:49 pm
cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:32 am
Sertorio, where have you been? Planet Mars? Can't you see that China does not care about international conventions?
Just like the Third Reich "pushing the envelope" of international tolerance in the years before the outbreak of the Second World War?
China is more respectful of international treaties than the US. And please do not ask me to give examples...

neverfail
Posts: 5590
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Hypocrisy over opposition to China's claims to those islands.

Post by neverfail » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:03 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:53 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:49 pm
cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:32 am
Sertorio, where have you been? Planet Mars? Can't you see that China does not care about international conventions?
Just like the Third Reich "pushing the envelope" of international tolerance in the years before the outbreak of the Second World War?
China is more respectful of international treaties than the US. And please do not ask me to give examples...
Why not?

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Sertorio
Posts: 3827
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Hypocrisy over opposition to China's claims to those islands.

Post by Sertorio » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:22 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:03 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:53 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:49 pm
cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:32 am
Sertorio, where have you been? Planet Mars? Can't you see that China does not care about international conventions?
Just like the Third Reich "pushing the envelope" of international tolerance in the years before the outbreak of the Second World War?
China is more respectful of international treaties than the US. And please do not ask me to give examples...
Why not?
Because you know them as well as I do.

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cassowary
Posts: 4118
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: Hypocrisy over opposition to China's claims to those islands.

Post by cassowary » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:41 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:49 pm
cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:32 am
Sertorio, where have you been? Planet Mars? Can't you see that China does not care about international conventions?
Just like the Third Reich "pushing the envelope" of international tolerance in the years before the outbreak of the Second World War?
Yes. A good comparison.
The Imp :D

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