The most arrogant people in Australia....

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neverfail
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The most arrogant people in Australia....

Post by neverfail » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:48 pm

The most arrogant people in Australia are business people and we're sick of them

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-most- ... yaxli.html

Bring on the higher taxes and stricter business regulations. It is high time that this crowd of pooh bahs learned that they are not as high in God's cosmic order as they like to imagine themselves. Double ditto globally!

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cassowary
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Re: The most arrogant people in Australia....

Post by cassowary » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:55 pm

The business people are the ones creating jobs. Tax them too much and they take their business and the jobs elsewhere.

neverfail
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Re: The most arrogant people in Australia....

Post by neverfail » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:38 pm

cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:55 pm
The business people are the ones creating jobs. Tax them too much and they take their business and the jobs elsewhere.
Tax and regulate them too little and they get frisky.

(quote) The developed world is still recovering from the carnage of the global financial crisis, caused by letting American banks do hugely risky things in the pursuit of higher profits and bonuses, confident in the knowledge that, should things come unstuck, the government would bail them out.

A great lot of jobs this bunch created! :twisted:

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cassowary
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Re: The most arrogant people in Australia....

Post by cassowary » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:47 pm

neverfail wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:38 pm
cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:55 pm
The business people are the ones creating jobs. Tax them too much and they take their business and the jobs elsewhere.
Tax and regulate them too little and they get frisky.

(quote) The developed world is still recovering from the carnage of the global financial crisis, caused by letting American banks do hugely risky things in the pursuit of higher profits and bonuses, confident in the knowledge that, should things come unstuck, the government would bail them out.

A great lot of jobs this bunch created! :twisted:
The global financial crisis was caused by the politicians who pushed banks to lend more money to their low income voters who could not handle the mortgages and should not be homeowners.

Why should the businessman hang around to be taxed heavily so that the politicians can use their hard earned money to buy the votes of welfare cheats? Or bludgers as you called them.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: The most arrogant people in Australia....

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:53 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:47 pm
The global financial crisis was caused by the politicians who pushed banks to lend more money to their low income voters who could not handle the mortgages and should not be homeowners.
It's true, Neverfail. No one would have offered the subprime borrowers mortgages in an actual free market, which the neither the U.S. housing market nor the U.S. lending market is by any stretch of the imagination, whether today or in 2007.

It's the same as people who are trying to blame Hurricane Harvey on climate change and its devastation on Houston's lack of zoning, when the number of hurricanes hitting the U.S. mainland has actually been trending down for years and Houston sits on a floodplain that no model of real estate development could withstand given the amount of rain that fell. Those sorts of explanations are great for preexisting narratives, and they make for pithy talking points, but they're not so good if one actually wants to know what really happened.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
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cassowary
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Re: The most arrogant people in Australia....

Post by cassowary » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:48 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:53 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:47 pm
The global financial crisis was caused by the politicians who pushed banks to lend more money to their low income voters who could not handle the mortgages and should not be homeowners.
It's true, Neverfail. No one would have offered the subprime borrowers mortgages in an actual free market, which the neither the U.S. housing market nor the U.S. lending market is by any stretch of the imagination, whether today or in 2007.

It's the same as people who are trying to blame Hurricane Harvey on climate change and its devastation on Houston's lack of zoning, when the number of hurricanes hitting the U.S. mainland has actually been trending down for years and Houston sits on a floodplain that no model of real estate development could withstand given the amount of rain that fell. Those sorts of explanations are great for preexisting narratives, and they make for pithy talking points, but they're not so good if one actually wants to know what really happened.
So you see Neverfail. The problem was again caused by the Left. I would like to add that Bush tried to reform the market but Senators oBUMa and Clinton stopped it. They claimed that Bush didn't care about the poor, didn't want to help them be homeowners, heartless etc. Republicans chickened out like they chickened out of repealing oBUMaCare.

neverfail
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Re: The most arrogant people in Australia....

Post by neverfail » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:44 pm

cassowary wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:48 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:53 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:47 pm
The global financial crisis was caused by the politicians who pushed banks to lend more money to their low income voters who could not handle the mortgages and should not be homeowners.
It's true, Neverfail. No one would have offered the subprime borrowers mortgages in an actual free market, which the neither the U.S. housing market nor the U.S. lending market is by any stretch of the imagination, whether today or in 2007.

It's the same as people who are trying to blame Hurricane Harvey on climate change and its devastation on Houston's lack of zoning, when the number of hurricanes hitting the U.S. mainland has actually been trending down for years and Houston sits on a floodplain that no model of real estate development could withstand given the amount of rain that fell. Those sorts of explanations are great for preexisting narratives, and they make for pithy talking points, but they're not so good if one actually wants to know what really happened.
So you see Neverfail. The problem was again caused by the Left. I would like to add that Bush tried to reform the market but Senators oBUMa and Clinton stopped it. They claimed that Bush didn't care about the poor, didn't want to help them be homeowners, heartless etc. Republicans chickened out like they chickened out of repealing oBUMaCare.
I have seriously considered the possibility that government policy might be to blame and in the end have rejected that explanation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governmen ... age_crisis

(quote) Government housing policies, over-regulation, failed regulation and deregulation have all been claimed as causes of the crisis, along with many others. While the modern financial system evolved, regulation did not keep pace and became mismatched with the risks building in the economy. The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission (FCIC) tasked with investigating the causes of the crisis reported in January 2011 that: "We had a 21st-century financial system with 19th-century safeguards."[1]

Increasing home ownership has been the goal of several presidents, including Roosevelt, Reagan, Clinton, and George W. Bush.[2] The FCIC wrote that U.S. government affordable housing policies and the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) were not primary causes of the crisis, as the events were primarily driven by the private sector, with the major investment banks at the core of the crisis not subject to depository banking regulations such as the CRA. In addition, housing bubbles appeared in several European countries at the same time, although U.S. housing policies did not apply there. Further, subprime lending roughly doubled (from below 10% of mortgage originations, to around 20% from 2004-2006), although there were no major changes to long-standing housing laws around that time. Only 1 of the 10 FCIC commissioners argued housing policies were a primary cause of the crisis, mainly in the context of steps Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac took to compete with aggressive private sector competition.[1]

Failure to regulate the non-depository banking system (also called the shadow banking system) has also been blamed.[1][3] The non-depository system grew to exceed the size of the regulated depository banking system,[4] but the investment banks, insurers, hedge funds, and money market funds were not subject to the same regulations. Many of these institutions suffered the equivalent of a bank run,[5] with the notable collapses of Lehman Brothers and AIG during September 2008 precipitating a financial crisis and subsequent recession.[6]
(unquote)
......................................................................................................................

Of course defenders of the private sector like Forbes magazine will try to deflect blame on to the shoulders of big government - knowing that out there in the wider community there is always a numerically large body of uninformed prejudice receptive to such as point of view.

It seems that the chief culprits were dodgy non-banking lending firms not constrained by the existing prudential regulation. Then top management of the big wholesale (merchant or business) banks, the likes of Lehman Bros. and Goldman and Sachs, also not constrained by legislation bought in by buying bundles of subprime mortgages (derivatives?) because the higher interest rates they attracted "looked good" on paper to shareholders and the boards of directors who represented shareholder interest. Just as long as the borrowers did not default on their loan obligations. Competition among the wholesale banking CEO's to maintain their reputations as good profit earners was as much to blame for the debacle as the quest for enhanced profits.

Even in the context that the USA, like all other countries, is not an entirely free market: all of that fierce competition , dear friends, is decidedly market capitalist stuff for which government policy cannot be held to account.
................................................................................................................

Getting back to our current Australian scenario: recently our biggest retail (savings) bank has been called to account after a whistle blower from within exposed this bank as having been culpable in such improprieties as helping to launder the proceeds of organized crime. Which shows that even my country's otherwise well regulated banking sector is not entirely immune from corruption at top management level.

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Milo
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Re: The most arrogant people in Australia....

Post by Milo » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:00 pm

And that the businesses aggressively lobbied for the regulation changes that created the crashes is left unmentioned above somehow.

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cassowary
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Re: The most arrogant people in Australia....

Post by cassowary » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:36 am

Never fail, the FCIC was wrong. The FCIC actually gave 3 versions of what caused the GFC - the (majority) Democrat version, the (minority) Republican version and Commissioner Peter Wallison's version.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/12/b ... lang=en-GB.

My views are close to his. Its mostly the government's fault.

neverfail
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Re: The most arrogant people in Australia....

Post by neverfail » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:52 am

cassowary wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:36 am
Never fail, the FCIC was wrong. The FCIC actually gave 3 versions of what caused the GFC - the (majority) Democrat version, the (minority) Republican version and Commissioner Peter Wallison's version.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/12/b ... lang=en-GB.

My views are close to his. Its mostly the government's fault.
Your virws would be cass! No surprise there :D .

(quote from your provided link:) " In summary, his argument is that the government housing policies, promulgated by both the executive and legislative branches from the early days of the Clinton administration to the present — with a brief respite at the height of the crisis — encouraged the private sector to make home mortgages of increasingly deteriorating credit quality to people who could not afford them. Officials then encouraged both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the large, quasi-government housing enterprises, to buy those mortgages, package them and sell them as securities to investors worldwide."

Rather than "the government" I would rather say government.

Government in the sense of the woeful malfunctioning system they have in the US where there are seemingly incredable disconnects between the different branches of government. Where policies pursued by one branch often contradicts those being promoted by others. That hits me in the eye from the above quote - a fact that, I confess, I frequently overlook whenever I contemplate the role of government in the US.

Where no one is obliged to co-operate to provide good government - a concept apparently alien to the American way of thinking.

Which creates a big hiatus in public administration inevitably filled by irresponsible capitalism.

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