America does not need another Revolution

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Sertorio
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Re: America does not need another Revolution

Post by Sertorio » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:12 am

cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:10 am
As what one of our Founding Fathers, Dr Goh Keng Swee advocated, you need to send in the missionaries to correct their character flaws that came from their culture. Put the fear of God into them. Convince them they will burn in hell if they mistreat their kids.
If you were a missionary and came to my village in that frame of mind, I would make sure I would stew you and feed you to my people... At least like that you would have been good for something... :D

neverfail
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Re: America does not need another Revolution

Post by neverfail » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:14 am

Apollonius wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:59 am

The school system was created for the purpose of removing children from the influence of their own culture and assimilating them into the dominant Canadian culture. Over the course of the system's more than hundred-year existence, about 30%, or roughly 150,000, of Indigenous children were placed in residential schools nationally. At least 6,000 of these students are estimated to have died while residents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... ool_system

No. The school system was created for the purpose of removing children from the abuse and neglect of parents who were slowly murdering their kids, the same reason that kids are removed from the care of families who cannot or will not properly take care of them today.
You know Apollonius, the more I read about this policy in Canada the more it looks like a similar one we had here in Australia over the same period of time. I have even read the testimony of former welfare officers who worked in our Northern Territory before WW2 and removed neglected part Aboriginal children to the care of foster homes. Had they not removed a lot of half-Aboriginal children from the blacks' camps most of them would have died from neglect. If a child had one white parent he/she was deemed to have not been born under any animal totem so therefore the tribe felt under no obligation to raise them up. (and in their traditional society children were brought up by the entire tribe rather than just by their immediate parents.)

I have no idea how much inspiration we borrowed from Canada or vice-versa for this policy. But with hindsight it looks to me now more like a broadly British Empire thingy rather than a policy position exclusive to either Dominion.

Assimilating them into the dominant Canadian culture? The trouble with institutionalised care anywhere is that it is usually coldly impersonal and none too caring. No mother's kiss and cuddle at bedtime for instance. All of the physical and educational needs may well be taken care of but the kids usually grow up immersed within a dearth of love. Kids who grow up like that often remain emotionally debilitated for their entire lives. I do not know whether you and/or other readers on this website can even begin to comprehend just how handicapped that can leave you.

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cassowary
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Re: America does not need another Revolution

Post by cassowary » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:33 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:12 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:10 am
As what one of our Founding Fathers, Dr Goh Keng Swee advocated, you need to send in the missionaries to correct their character flaws that came from their culture. Put the fear of God into them. Convince them they will burn in hell if they mistreat their kids.
If you were a missionary and came to my village in that frame of mind, I would make sure I would stew you and feed you to my people... At least like that you would have been good for something... :D
That did happen sometimes. But there were those who succeeded and brought the light of Christian civilisation to savages.
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: America does not need another Revolution

Post by Sertorio » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:08 am

cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:33 am
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:12 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:10 am
As what one of our Founding Fathers, Dr Goh Keng Swee advocated, you need to send in the missionaries to correct their character flaws that came from their culture. Put the fear of God into them. Convince them they will burn in hell if they mistreat their kids.
If you were a missionary and came to my village in that frame of mind, I would make sure I would stew you and feed you to my people... At least like that you would have been good for something... :D
That did happen sometimes. But there were those who succeeded and brought the light of Christian civilisation to savages.
As religions go, Christianity is better than most. But like all religions it tends to make people neurotic and is responsible for lots of unhappiness...

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Milo
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Re: America does not need another Revolution

Post by Milo » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:33 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:14 am
Apollonius wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:59 am

The school system was created for the purpose of removing children from the influence of their own culture and assimilating them into the dominant Canadian culture. Over the course of the system's more than hundred-year existence, about 30%, or roughly 150,000, of Indigenous children were placed in residential schools nationally. At least 6,000 of these students are estimated to have died while residents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... ool_system

No. The school system was created for the purpose of removing children from the abuse and neglect of parents who were slowly murdering their kids, the same reason that kids are removed from the care of families who cannot or will not properly take care of them today.
You know Apollonius, the more I read about this policy in Canada the more it looks like a similar one we had here in Australia over the same period of time. I have even read the testimony of former welfare officers who worked in our Northern Territory before WW2 and removed neglected part Aboriginal children to the care of foster homes. Had they not removed a lot of half-Aboriginal children from the blacks' camps most of them would have died from neglect. If a child had one white parent he/she was deemed to have not been born under any animal totem so therefore the tribe felt under no obligation to raise them up. (and in their traditional society children were brought up by the entire tribe rather than just by their immediate parents.)

I have no idea how much inspiration we borrowed from Canada or vice-versa for this policy. But with hindsight it looks to me now more like a broadly British Empire thingy rather than a policy position exclusive to either Dominion.

Assimilating them into the dominant Canadian culture? The trouble with institutionalised care anywhere is that it is usually coldly impersonal and none too caring. No mother's kiss and cuddle at bedtime for instance. All of the physical and educational needs may well be taken care of but the kids usually grow up immersed within a dearth of love. Kids who grow up like that often remain emotionally debilitated for their entire lives. I do not know whether you and/or other readers on this website can even begin to comprehend just how handicapped that can leave you.
They were dying of preventable diseases and living in ignorance, filth and poverty on the reservations. They still are.

Residential School was the best thing that ever happened to them. Now we can't even do them that favour.

neverfail
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Re: America does not need another Revolution

Post by neverfail » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:48 pm

Milo wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:33 pm

They were dying of preventable diseases and living in ignorance, filth and poverty on the reservations. They still are.

Residential School was the best thing that ever happened to them. Now we can't even do them that favour.
Born losers?

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Milo
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Re: America does not need another Revolution

Post by Milo » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:00 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:48 pm
Milo wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:33 pm

They were dying of preventable diseases and living in ignorance, filth and poverty on the reservations. They still are.

Residential School was the best thing that ever happened to them. Now we can't even do them that favour.
Born losers?
If you make people live in the middle of nowhere and prevent them learning anything practical, the results are quite predictable.

It is all the 'settlers' fault, just not at all in the way the popular wisdom would have it.

neverfail
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Re: America does not need another Revolution

Post by neverfail » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:29 pm

Milo wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:00 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:48 pm
Milo wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:33 pm

They were dying of preventable diseases and living in ignorance, filth and poverty on the reservations. They still are.

Residential School was the best thing that ever happened to them. Now we can't even do them that favour.
Born losers?
If you make people live in the middle of nowhere and prevent them learning anything practical, the results are quite predictable.

It is all the 'settlers' fault, just not at all in the way the popular wisdom would have it.
1) were they "made" to live in the middle of nowhere or was that their choice?

2) are you suggesting that they were never taught anything practical at those residental schools?

Please clarify for me Milo. You seem to be going against what your compatriot Apollonius put forth.

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cassowary
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Re: America does not need another Revolution

Post by cassowary » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:22 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:08 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:33 am
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:12 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:10 am
As what one of our Founding Fathers, Dr Goh Keng Swee advocated, you need to send in the missionaries to correct their character flaws that came from their culture. Put the fear of God into them. Convince them they will burn in hell if they mistreat their kids.
If you were a missionary and came to my village in that frame of mind, I would make sure I would stew you and feed you to my people... At least like that you would have been good for something... :D
That did happen sometimes. But there were those who succeeded and brought the light of Christian civilisation to savages.
As religions go, Christianity is better than most. But like all religions it tends to make people neurotic and is responsible for lots of unhappiness...
Not Christianity. I don't know about the others.

Regular churchgoers are happier, study finds.
According to a study published today (Dec. 7) in the journal American Sociological Review, religious people gain life satisfaction thanks to social networks they build by attending religious services. The results apply to Catholics and mainline and evangelical Protestants. The number of Jews, Mormons, Muslims and people of other religions interviewed was too small to draw conclusions about those populations, according to study researcher Chaeyoon Lim, a sociologist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
In the case of Muslims, I suspect that regular mosque attendance tends to get you blown up. Maybe they are happy with that just before they die.

I also think that it has more to do than just social networks. A social network of Socialists, I suspect will make one angry, depressed and unhappy. The Christian faith encourages its believers to have a positive outlook in life. I know of a woman from my church suffering from cancer. Despite the chemo, which appears to be not working, she is so very cheerful.

It has been statistically proved that regular church attendance leads to greater wealth.

Wealth from Worship
Jonathan Gruber, an economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, claims that regular religious participation leads to better education, higher income and a lower chance of divorce. His results* (based on data covering non-Hispanic white Americans of several Christian denominations, other faiths and none) imply that doubling church attendance raises someone's income by almost 10%.

The idea that religion can bring material advantages has a distinguished history. A century ago Max Weber argued that the Protestant work ethic lay behind Europe's prosperity.
I like to think it was due to Divine Blessings. But since you are an atheist, I offer you alternate explanations . The Christian faith steers you away from destructive vices - drugs, alcohol, gambling, promiscuity/divorce etc which could wreck your life. It also encourages diligence, honesty, frugality and a positive way of thinking. We are always taught to thank God for our blessings.

Compare that with the negative thinking that the left encourages - you will forever be poor because you are black living in a racist society. You will always be poor because of capitalism. Leftist ideology makes you feel angry all the time with the world. You are made to think you are wronged. When wronged, the Christian teaching is forgiveness. This is liberating. It frees you to think of the future and not be bitter of the past.

I know you Socialists want to destroy religion, especially Christianity. So that is why you are toying with the idea of bringing back stoic philosophy. It does have good ethics. But beyond a small group of intellectuals, do you expect the ideas a bunch of long dead pagan philosopher can influence people to change destructive behaviors and make altruistic sacrifices. As we have seen, people like Seneca are hypocrites. Can he inspire another Mother Theresa?

No, such altruistic behavior can only be inspired by the belief in a all powerful God who can mete out divine rewards and punishments now and the hereafter. Whether He exists or not is besides the point. (I believe He does.)
The Imp :D

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Apollonius
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Re: America does not need another Revolution

Post by Apollonius » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:59 am

Milo wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:33 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:14 am
Apollonius wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:59 am

The school system was created for the purpose of removing children from the influence of their own culture and assimilating them into the dominant Canadian culture. Over the course of the system's more than hundred-year existence, about 30%, or roughly 150,000, of Indigenous children were placed in residential schools nationally. At least 6,000 of these students are estimated to have died while residents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... ool_system

No. The school system was created for the purpose of removing children from the abuse and neglect of parents who were slowly murdering their kids, the same reason that kids are removed from the care of families who cannot or will not properly take care of them today.
You know Apollonius, the more I read about this policy in Canada the more it looks like a similar one we had here in Australia over the same period of time. I have even read the testimony of former welfare officers who worked in our Northern Territory before WW2 and removed neglected part Aboriginal children to the care of foster homes. Had they not removed a lot of half-Aboriginal children from the blacks' camps most of them would have died from neglect. If a child had one white parent he/she was deemed to have not been born under any animal totem so therefore the tribe felt under no obligation to raise them up. (and in their traditional society children were brought up by the entire tribe rather than just by their immediate parents.)

I have no idea how much inspiration we borrowed from Canada or vice-versa for this policy. But with hindsight it looks to me now more like a broadly British Empire thingy rather than a policy position exclusive to either Dominion.

Assimilating them into the dominant Canadian culture? The trouble with institutionalised care anywhere is that it is usually coldly impersonal and none too caring. No mother's kiss and cuddle at bedtime for instance. All of the physical and educational needs may well be taken care of but the kids usually grow up immersed within a dearth of love. Kids who grow up like that often remain emotionally debilitated for their entire lives. I do not know whether you and/or other readers on this website can even begin to comprehend just how handicapped that can leave you.
They were dying of preventable diseases and living in ignorance, filth and poverty on the reservations. They still are.

Residential School was the best thing that ever happened to them. Now we can't even do them that favour.


That's why Neverfail's comment about a mother's kiss and cuddle at bedtime (very often lacking with a good beating substituted or the kid just left crying when hungry because the mother was too drunk to notice) and obvious problems with institutionalized care, the residential schools were a Very Good Thing.


And I'm sorry. I must return to my assertion that this narrative being promoted and enforced by the educational system, our media, and our politicians is nasty, stupid, and false. Again, I resent being blamed for giving children the only chance they had in life while Native leaders, their contractor friends, their lawyer friends, and bureaucrats in over two dozen federal government agencies use their lies and dissimulations to line their pockets, deflect from their gross incompetence, and call everyone who tries to object to it a racist.

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