The US is tearing itself apart.....

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neverfail
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Re: The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by neverfail » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:28 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:25 am

(Deleted to save space).


Who in their right mind, in command of their senses, or with even half the proverbial brain, would go back to live in the Failed States of America? Because that’s what America is – a failed state.

(...)

https://asiatimes.com/2020/06/point-of- ... f-america/
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:25 am
An American wrote this, not me. And not RT either...
I read it in full just before you published Sertorio. The author is a one-off. Mass migration to South Korea is not an option for American blacks. The Korean authorities would never allow it.

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Doc
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Re: The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by Doc » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:43 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:42 am
The systemic collapse of the US society has begun

(...)

Conclusion 3: this is an insurrection which has initiated the systemic collapse of the US society
I call what is happening today an insurrection: a violent revolt or rebellion against the authorities as such. When you burn a police precinct you do not “protest” against the actions of a few cops, no, what you are doing is expelling the cops from your neighborhood (I know that personally. In Argentina I lived in a suburb of Buenos-Aires in which the police station was attacked so often that it closed and was never rebuilt). And since in a civilized society the state should have the monopoly on the (legal) use of force, you are basically rejecting the authority and legitimacy of the state which operates the police force. This insurrection is most unlikely to remove Trump from office (hence it is not a coup or a revolution), but the anti-Trump faction of the ruling elites have now clearly adopted the strategy of “worse is better” simply because they realize that these riots are probably their last chance to blame it all on Trump (and Russia, why not?!) and maybe, just maybe, defeat him in November.

Right now all we see can only be called a mob-rule (technically referred to as an “ochlocracy“). But mobs, no matter how violent, rarely succeed in achieving tangible political results as they act ‘against something’ and not ‘for something’. This is why the real (behind-the-scenes) ruling classes need to instrumentalize this mob-induced insurrection to their political advantage. So far, I would say that neither the Demolicans nor the Republicrats have succeeded in this. But there is a very long and potentially extremely dangerous summer ahead and this might well change.

Irrespective of whether either faction will succeed in instrumentalizing the riots, what we are seeing today is a systemic collapse of the US society. That is not to say that the USA will disappear, not at all. But just like it took the Soviet Union a decade or more to fully collapse (roughly from 1983-1993), it will take the US many years to fully crash. And just like a New Russia eventually began taking form in 1999, there will be a New USA coming out of the current collapse. Total and final collapses are very rare, mostly they just initiate a lengthy and potentially very dangerous transformation process, the outcome of which is almost impossible to predict.

However, just as the Russian people had to stop kidding themselves with silly dreams about “democracy” and had to tackle the real problems of Russia, so will the people of the USA have to find the courage to deal with their real problems, frontally and deliberately. If they fail to do that, the country will most likely simple further disintegrate into numerous and mutually hostile entities.

Time will tell.

http://thesaker.is/the-systemic-collaps ... has-begun/
I would advise reading the whole thing...
No the US is about to see a new birth of freedom.

Viva le révolution !!! (Translation: A revolution is a terrible thing to waste)

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blog ... -violence/
Justification and violence

"“[W]hen classic justification, based on the propitiatory work of Christ, is absent, human beings will grasp for substitutes, often grotesque ones. . . . We have here [in the French Revolution], among much else, a case of secular atonement. One of the central rituals within the drama of the French Revolution was meant to achieve expiation. It was important to be cleansed from the past, while at the same time holding up revolutionary ideals. . . . Thus, the guillotine was a counterfeit for Calvary.”
Image

“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

sur gardes !!!
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Milo
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Re: The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by Milo » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:24 pm

Doc wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:43 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:42 am
The systemic collapse of the US society has begun

(...)

Conclusion 3: this is an insurrection which has initiated the systemic collapse of the US society
I call what is happening today an insurrection: a violent revolt or rebellion against the authorities as such. When you burn a police precinct you do not “protest” against the actions of a few cops, no, what you are doing is expelling the cops from your neighborhood (I know that personally. In Argentina I lived in a suburb of Buenos-Aires in which the police station was attacked so often that it closed and was never rebuilt). And since in a civilized society the state should have the monopoly on the (legal) use of force, you are basically rejecting the authority and legitimacy of the state which operates the police force. This insurrection is most unlikely to remove Trump from office (hence it is not a coup or a revolution), but the anti-Trump faction of the ruling elites have now clearly adopted the strategy of “worse is better” simply because they realize that these riots are probably their last chance to blame it all on Trump (and Russia, why not?!) and maybe, just maybe, defeat him in November.

Right now all we see can only be called a mob-rule (technically referred to as an “ochlocracy“). But mobs, no matter how violent, rarely succeed in achieving tangible political results as they act ‘against something’ and not ‘for something’. This is why the real (behind-the-scenes) ruling classes need to instrumentalize this mob-induced insurrection to their political advantage. So far, I would say that neither the Demolicans nor the Republicrats have succeeded in this. But there is a very long and potentially extremely dangerous summer ahead and this might well change.

Irrespective of whether either faction will succeed in instrumentalizing the riots, what we are seeing today is a systemic collapse of the US society. That is not to say that the USA will disappear, not at all. But just like it took the Soviet Union a decade or more to fully collapse (roughly from 1983-1993), it will take the US many years to fully crash. And just like a New Russia eventually began taking form in 1999, there will be a New USA coming out of the current collapse. Total and final collapses are very rare, mostly they just initiate a lengthy and potentially very dangerous transformation process, the outcome of which is almost impossible to predict.

However, just as the Russian people had to stop kidding themselves with silly dreams about “democracy” and had to tackle the real problems of Russia, so will the people of the USA have to find the courage to deal with their real problems, frontally and deliberately. If they fail to do that, the country will most likely simple further disintegrate into numerous and mutually hostile entities.

Time will tell.

http://thesaker.is/the-systemic-collaps ... has-begun/
I would advise reading the whole thing...
No the US is about to see a new birth of freedom.

Viva le révolution !!! (Translation: A revolution is a terrible thing to waste)

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blog ... -violence/
Justification and violence

"“[W]hen classic justification, based on the propitiatory work of Christ, is absent, human beings will grasp for substitutes, often grotesque ones. . . . We have here [in the French Revolution], among much else, a case of secular atonement. One of the central rituals within the drama of the French Revolution was meant to achieve expiation. It was important to be cleansed from the past, while at the same time holding up revolutionary ideals. . . . Thus, the guillotine was a counterfeit for Calvary.”
Image

“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

sur gardes !!!
I agree Doc.

neverfail
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Re: The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by neverfail » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:49 pm

Doc wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:43 pm

No the US is about to see a new birth of freedom.
What moves you to believe that Doc?

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Sertorio
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Re: The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by Sertorio » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:02 am

This may give you an idea of some of the ways the US is tearing itself apart:

Image

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/failed-state-walking

But some people still think that Trump deserves being reelected because of the marvelous things he has done with the economy...

neverfail
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Re: "lift your game!"

Post by neverfail » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:02 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:02 am
This may give you an idea of some of the ways the US is tearing itself apart:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/failed-state-walking
Excerpt from link/disclaimer from author:

Authored by Chris Hamilton via Econimica blog,

I love America. It's the land of my birth, my education (Go Beav's), my children's births, and where I live and will eventually die. I did spend about five years living in Europe and Asia and loved it...but my home is and will be the vast expanse of the Western US.

So, when I'm critical of the US, it's not because I want it to fail or fall into chaos...quite the opposite. I believe that a patriot and citizens role is to critically analyze and constructively push forward. And this means critiquing the direction of its politics, economy, society, and the state of its soul.
I am not an American myself and some have accused me of "trolling" because my posts seem so unrelentingly critical of the USA and in particular of its politics. No! I get no delight out of witnessing the low, apparently degenerate, state into which this country has sunk. My posts reflect my fury that a key ally of my country could allow itself to sink so low combined with an exaspperrated cry to the effect "for god's sake America, lift your game!"

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Sertorio
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Re: "lift your game!"

Post by Sertorio » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:25 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:02 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:02 am
This may give you an idea of some of the ways the US is tearing itself apart:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/failed-state-walking
Excerpt from link/disclaimer from author:

Authored by Chris Hamilton via Econimica blog,

I love America. It's the land of my birth, my education (Go Beav's), my children's births, and where I live and will eventually die. I did spend about five years living in Europe and Asia and loved it...but my home is and will be the vast expanse of the Western US.

So, when I'm critical of the US, it's not because I want it to fail or fall into chaos...quite the opposite. I believe that a patriot and citizens role is to critically analyze and constructively push forward. And this means critiquing the direction of its politics, economy, society, and the state of its soul.
I am not an American myself and some have accused me of "trolling" because my posts seem so unrelentingly critical of the USA and in particular of its politics. No! I get no delight out of witnessing the low, apparently degenerate, state into which this country has sunk. My posts reflect my fury that a key ally of my country could allow itself to sink so low combined with an exaspperrated cry to the effect "for god's sake America, lift your game!"
Neverfail,
While the US has a large number of very intelligent, very knowledgeable, very decent people, the fact is that they are but a small minority of the 350 million people living in the US. The vast majority is truly underdeveloped and poorly educated, prone to be violent both at home and abroad, and that's why one should not accept the US as an ally. If there are threats in the world then the answer is for the countries at risk to build regional alliances capable of handling those threats without having to rely on the US. And leave the US alone until a majority of their people are capable of having civilized intercourse with the rest of us.

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Doc
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Re: "lift your game!"

Post by Doc » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:29 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:25 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:02 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:02 am
This may give you an idea of some of the ways the US is tearing itself apart:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/failed-state-walking
Excerpt from link/disclaimer from author:

Authored by Chris Hamilton via Econimica blog,

I love America. It's the land of my birth, my education (Go Beav's), my children's births, and where I live and will eventually die. I did spend about five years living in Europe and Asia and loved it...but my home is and will be the vast expanse of the Western US.

So, when I'm critical of the US, it's not because I want it to fail or fall into chaos...quite the opposite. I believe that a patriot and citizens role is to critically analyze and constructively push forward. And this means critiquing the direction of its politics, economy, society, and the state of its soul.
I am not an American myself and some have accused me of "trolling" because my posts seem so unrelentingly critical of the USA and in particular of its politics. No! I get no delight out of witnessing the low, apparently degenerate, state into which this country has sunk. My posts reflect my fury that a key ally of my country could allow itself to sink so low combined with an exaspperrated cry to the effect "for god's sake America, lift your game!"
Neverfail,
While the US has a large number of very intelligent, very knowledgeable, very decent people, the fact is that they are but a small minority of the 350 million people living in the US. The vast majority is truly underdeveloped and poorly educated, prone to be violent both at home and abroad, and that's why one should not accept the US as an ally. If there are threats in the world then the answer is for the countries at risk to build regional alliances capable of handling those threats without having to rely on the US. And leave the US alone until a majority of their people are capable of having civilized intercourse with the rest of us.
Some say the EU is mostly made up of PIIGS
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Location: Singapore

Re: "lift your game!"

Post by neverfail » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:20 pm

Doc wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:29 pm


Neverfail,
While the US has a large number of very intelligent, very knowledgeable, very decent people, the fact is that they are but a small minority of the 350 million people living in the US. The vast majority is truly underdeveloped and poorly educated, prone to be violent both at home and abroad, and that's why one should not accept the US as an ally. If there are threats in the world then the answer is for the countries at risk to build regional alliances capable of handling those threats without having to rely on the US. And leave the US alone until a majority of their people are capable of having civilized intercourse with the rest of us.
Sertorio,

Yes, I agree that the US has enbarked on some reprehensibly brutal adventures against some foreign countries but has NEVER even once done so against MY country - and that is what counts. The contrary, our alliance relationship with the USA has so far paid for itself.

When contemplating the balance of power in the Asia-pacific region where my country is (for better or worse) domiciled I find that I need to ignore the (pie-in-the-sky) ideal in order to concentrate on the workable and practical. The conclusion I underingly reach is that only the United States can balance the growing power of the PRC.

At present the PRC is testing my country by probing for weaknesses (not an unusual ploy in PRC foreign policy). While still buying our iron ore and other raw materials important for the viability of their own industries in unprecedented volumes; the PRC government is imposing selective sanctions on politically sensitive sectors of our Australian economy including higher education and mass tourism. You can see that their game plan is to build up a coalition of disaffected sectional interests within Australia to put pressure on our government to give Beijing what it wants.

What does Beijing want? Well, to drop our push for an impartial investigation of the origins and spread of Coronavirus within and beyond China. Followed (later on no doubt) by our dropping our objection to Huawei participating in our 5G network rollout and also our opposition of their attempt to annex the waters of the South China Sea.

If our government were to buckle to the (underhand) pressure being exerted by the PRC government they would then know how to get at us and would come back again and again to demand and get more out of us - to the point where we would become nought but a Chinese vassal.

Would you enjoy (figuratively speaking) The Chinese coming along and pissing all over your country, Sertorio? Because it is unlikely to happen soon does not mean that it cannot happen.

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Sertorio
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Re: "lift your game!"

Post by Sertorio » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:06 am

Doc wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:29 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:25 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:02 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:02 am
This may give you an idea of some of the ways the US is tearing itself apart:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/failed-state-walking
Excerpt from link/disclaimer from author:

Authored by Chris Hamilton via Econimica blog,

I love America. It's the land of my birth, my education (Go Beav's), my children's births, and where I live and will eventually die. I did spend about five years living in Europe and Asia and loved it...but my home is and will be the vast expanse of the Western US.

So, when I'm critical of the US, it's not because I want it to fail or fall into chaos...quite the opposite. I believe that a patriot and citizens role is to critically analyze and constructively push forward. And this means critiquing the direction of its politics, economy, society, and the state of its soul.
I am not an American myself and some have accused me of "trolling" because my posts seem so unrelentingly critical of the USA and in particular of its politics. No! I get no delight out of witnessing the low, apparently degenerate, state into which this country has sunk. My posts reflect my fury that a key ally of my country could allow itself to sink so low combined with an exaspperrated cry to the effect "for god's sake America, lift your game!"
Neverfail,
While the US has a large number of very intelligent, very knowledgeable, very decent people, the fact is that they are but a small minority of the 350 million people living in the US. The vast majority is truly underdeveloped and poorly educated, prone to be violent both at home and abroad, and that's why one should not accept the US as an ally. If there are threats in the world then the answer is for the countries at risk to build regional alliances capable of handling those threats without having to rely on the US. And leave the US alone until a majority of their people are capable of having civilized intercourse with the rest of us.
Some say the EU is mostly made up of PIIGS
"Underdeveloped and poorly educated"... You have just proven my point, thanks... :twisted:

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