The US is tearing itself apart.....

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neverfail
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The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by neverfail » Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:04 pm

This appears to be stating the obvious:

The US is tearing itself apart because its political system has failed

https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-us- ... 54y6a.html
The US is tearing itself apart. The strap on Australia's Sky News on Monday morning summarised it as "Fire and fury". That was Donald Trump's threat against North Korea three years ago. Yet today Kim Jong-un continues to build his weapons and it is the US suffering fire and fury. Entirely self-inflicted.

China's Communist Party need not say a word. But it can't help itself. America is drinking "a glass of bitter wine brewed by the US itself", China Central TV called it. Another state propaganda organ, The Global Times, headlined: "US double standards on domestic riots and Hong Kong turmoil mocked on Chinese internet."
Of course. The news coming out of the USA speaks for itself. The CCP would be better off were it to remain silent and allow the World to take note of the debacle unfolding in the land of the free.
Of course, failures of US governance are not an indictment of liberal democracy itself as a form of governance. Other liberal democratic countries continue to be highly successful. Whether it's Germany, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea or Taiwan, these are all liberal democracies that continue to deliver the highest living standards and greatest liberties available to humanity today.

America's problems are not intrinsic to liberal democracy. They are American failures. Above and beyond any single US problem is the system that is supposed to fix problems – its political system.
When a country's political system fails, its problem-solving mechanism fails. The US today is in such a poor state because its biggest problems never get solved – they just accumulate.
The keep on kicking the can down the road syndrome?
............................................................................................................

Cassowary: as reflected in your posts over the years on this website, I get the strong impression that you believe that just because the USA is the world's wealthiest; most militarily and diplomatically powerful democracy that this must automatically make it the world's best democracy. Allow me to reassure you that in terms of the way it functions the USA is arguably among the very worst of them. I hope that you will soon remove the horse blinkers from over your eyes and finally see this for yourself.

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Milo
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Re: The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by Milo » Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:31 pm

I am not so sure about there being a political solution here.

Why are America police often so brutal? Because so many Americans are walking around with guns, due to the cultural imperative that virtually unregulated gun ownership has in American society.

It is not, as often touted, a legal problem, because the 2nd Amendment is misinterpreted by the courts and not enforced by the government. Due to the cultural imperative that gun ownership has in American society.

Until American society can change enough to wean itself off of this rather fetishized obsession with virtually unregulated gun ownership, this sort of thing will recur. Until then, we will have both major parties, and their appointees, extolling the vile practice of virtually unregulated gun ownership, because practically no Americans will vote against it.

Until then, we will have the police on a hair trigger, particularly when race is a factor.

Due to this, police will both kill and be killed in such a way that both sides will be outraged and the only thing that will almost never come up as a factor is... virtually unregulated gun ownership.

neverfail
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Re: The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by neverfail » Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:44 pm

Milo wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:31 pm
I am not so sure about there being a political solution here.

Why are America police often so brutal? Because so many Americans are walking around with guns, due to the cultural imperative that virtually unregulated gun ownership has in American society.

It is not, as often touted, a legal problem, because the 2nd Amendment is misinterpreted by the courts and not enforced by the government. Due to the cultural imperative that gun ownership has in American society.

Until American society can change enough to wean itself off of this rather fetishized obsession with virtually unregulated gun ownership, this sort of thing will recur. Until then, we will have both major parties, and their appointees, extolling the vile practice of virtually unregulated gun ownership, because practically no Americans will vote against it.

Until then, we will have the police on a hair trigger, particularly when race is a factor.

Due to this, police will both kill and be killed in such a way that both sides will be outraged and the only thing that will almost never come up as a factor is... virtually unregulated gun ownership.
That makes sense Milo and thanks.

You are of course only attempting to explain why: not condone or excuse police brutality?

The way in which Donald Trump keeps on making indedenary instead of concilitary public comments he is likely to end up driving the US into a state of civil war. Americans have not brought out their guns yet but sooner or later the temptation will become too great to resist.

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Sertorio
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Re: The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by Sertorio » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:38 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:44 pm
Milo wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:31 pm
I am not so sure about there being a political solution here.

Why are America police often so brutal? Because so many Americans are walking around with guns, due to the cultural imperative that virtually unregulated gun ownership has in American society.

It is not, as often touted, a legal problem, because the 2nd Amendment is misinterpreted by the courts and not enforced by the government. Due to the cultural imperative that gun ownership has in American society.

Until American society can change enough to wean itself off of this rather fetishized obsession with virtually unregulated gun ownership, this sort of thing will recur. Until then, we will have both major parties, and their appointees, extolling the vile practice of virtually unregulated gun ownership, because practically no Americans will vote against it.

Until then, we will have the police on a hair trigger, particularly when race is a factor.

Due to this, police will both kill and be killed in such a way that both sides will be outraged and the only thing that will almost never come up as a factor is... virtually unregulated gun ownership.
That makes sense Milo and thanks.

You are of course only attempting to explain why: not condone or excuse police brutality?

The way in which Donald Trump keeps on making indedenary instead of concilitary public comments he is likely to end up driving the US into a state of civil war. Americans have not brought out their guns yet but sooner or later the temptation will become too great to resist.
Neverfail, I share your feelings on this. I would just add that other peoples around the world could help bringing Americans to their senses by moving away from the alliances with the US, which tend to give Americans the feeling that they are superior and exceptional. Strong condemnation - and not just with words - of the US is necessary to force Americans to look at themselves in a more objective way.

neverfail
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Re: The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by neverfail » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:59 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:38 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:44 pm
Milo wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:31 pm
I am not so sure about there being a political solution here.

Why are America police often so brutal? Because so many Americans are walking around with guns, due to the cultural imperative that virtually unregulated gun ownership has in American society.

It is not, as often touted, a legal problem, because the 2nd Amendment is misinterpreted by the courts and not enforced by the government. Due to the cultural imperative that gun ownership has in American society.

Until American society can change enough to wean itself off of this rather fetishized obsession with virtually unregulated gun ownership, this sort of thing will recur. Until then, we will have both major parties, and their appointees, extolling the vile practice of virtually unregulated gun ownership, because practically no Americans will vote against it.

Until then, we will have the police on a hair trigger, particularly when race is a factor.

Due to this, police will both kill and be killed in such a way that both sides will be outraged and the only thing that will almost never come up as a factor is... virtually unregulated gun ownership.
That makes sense Milo and thanks.

You are of course only attempting to explain why: not condone or excuse police brutality?

The way in which Donald Trump keeps on making indedenary instead of concilitary public comments he is likely to end up driving the US into a state of civil war. Americans have not brought out their guns yet but sooner or later the temptation will become too great to resist.
Neverfail, I share your feelings on this. I would just add that other peoples around the world could help bringing Americans to their senses by moving away from the alliances with the US, which tend to give Americans the feeling that they are superior and exceptional. Strong condemnation - and not just with words - of the US is necessary to force Americans to look at themselves in a more objective way.
Thanks for your sympathetic words Sertorio. I am of the opinion that on average Americans do not care less about those alliances abroad.

It would likely take a major domestic convulion to move this surprisingly insular nation to change its ways. Even that is not a guaranteed result. They had such a convulsion back in the late 1960's and while that one saw the end of segretation in the Deep South; the similtaneous election of Richard (tricky Dick) Nixon as president meant the loss of impetus for further needed reform and the entrenchment of a dreary "buasiness as ususl" routine in Washington DC.

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Milo
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Re: The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by Milo » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:57 pm

It's like all of the ugly American stereotypes in one serving.
During his speech, Trump said he is an ally of legitimate protesters. Yet as he did so, authorities fired into peaceful crowds across the street from the White House and advanced on horseback, so that Trump could later walk with a phalanx of Secret Service agents to St. John’s Episcopal Church. He held up a Bible for the cameras and posed with Atty. Gen. William Barr and Defense Secretary Mark Esper, among others, in front of the boarded-up building, where a fire had been set the previous night. That drew outrage from the church’s bishop and from Democratic officials.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/ne ... newsletter

neverfail
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Re: The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by neverfail » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:43 pm

Milo wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:57 pm
It's like all of the ugly American stereotypes in one serving.
During his speech, Trump said he is an ally of legitimate protesters. Yet as he did so, authorities fired into peaceful crowds across the street from the White House and advanced on horseback, so that Trump could later walk with a phalanx of Secret Service agents to St. John’s Episcopal Church. He held up a Bible for the cameras and posed with Atty. Gen. William Barr and Defense Secretary Mark Esper, among others, in front of the boarded-up building, where a fire had been set the previous night. That drew outrage from the church’s bishop and from Democratic officials.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/ne ... newsletter
Attacking peaceful protestors in Lafayette Park Washington in order to clear a path for Trump to walk over to Saint John's church for a photo op seems to have been Trump's ego-tripping way of sending protestors the message "I can wlk roughshod over you bunch of losers anytime i want to".

Trump claims to be an ally of legitimate protesters? :lol: Trump is a blatant liar!

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Milo
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Re: The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by Milo » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:37 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:43 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:57 pm
It's like all of the ugly American stereotypes in one serving.
During his speech, Trump said he is an ally of legitimate protesters. Yet as he did so, authorities fired into peaceful crowds across the street from the White House and advanced on horseback, so that Trump could later walk with a phalanx of Secret Service agents to St. John’s Episcopal Church. He held up a Bible for the cameras and posed with Atty. Gen. William Barr and Defense Secretary Mark Esper, among others, in front of the boarded-up building, where a fire had been set the previous night. That drew outrage from the church’s bishop and from Democratic officials.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/ne ... newsletter
Attacking peaceful protestors in Lafayette Park Washington in order to clear a path for Trump to walk over to Saint John's church for a photo op seems to have been Trump's ego-tripping way of sending protestors the message "I can wlk roughshod over you bunch of losers anytime i want to".

Trump claims to be an ally of legitimate protesters? :lol: Trump is a blatant liar!
In case you didn't know, he did not enter the church, meet with church leaders, or pray. He posed with his handpicked men and held up a Bible. It's Republican Christianity at its best!

neverfail
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Re: The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by neverfail » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:11 am

Milo wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:37 pm
In case you didn't know, he did not enter the church, meet with church leaders, or pray. He posed with his handpicked men and held up a Bible. It's Republican Christianity at its best!
:lol: :)

Have you noticed that Joe Biden has been keeping a low profile since nominated as Democrats candidate for President?

True, he made a public comment condemning Trump's recent photo op stunt (what else could you have expected him to do?) but only after a long period of being missing from the campaign trail.

I can speculate why. Recalling his run in with that black TV host last month in which he made the absurd contention that blacks who vote for Trump are not really black (an inept foray into identity politics?) :( : I would not be surprised if behind the scene Biden's campaign manager advised him to keep his mouth shut (unless reading from a scripted announcment) and allow Trump the maximum glare of publicity so he can literally talk and tweet himself into losing the coming election.

Biden publically making fool of himself only distracts public attention away from Trump's unfitness for high office. So let Biden appear as the statesman in waiting by keeping his well known inadequacies hidden?

What do you think Milo?

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Milo
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Re: The US is tearing itself apart.....

Post by Milo » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:07 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:11 am
Milo wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:37 pm
In case you didn't know, he did not enter the church, meet with church leaders, or pray. He posed with his handpicked men and held up a Bible. It's Republican Christianity at its best!
:lol: :)

Have you noticed that Joe Biden has been keeping a low profile since nominated as Democrats candidate for President?

True, he made a public comment condemning Trump's recent photo op stunt (what else could you have expected him to do?) but only after a long period of being missing from the campaign trail.

I can speculate why. Recalling his run in with that black TV host last month in which he made the absurd contention that blacks who vote for Trump are not really black (an inept foray into identity politics?) :( : I would not be surprised if behind the scene Biden's campaign manager advised him to keep his mouth shut (unless reading from a scripted announcment) and allow Trump the maximum glare of publicity so he can literally talk and tweet himself into losing the coming election.

Biden publically making fool of himself only distracts public attention away from Trump's unfitness for high office. So let Biden appear as the statesman in waiting by keeping his well known inadequacies hidden?

What do you think Milo?
I think that's exactly right.

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