War with China?

Discussion of current events
User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 3720
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

War with China?

Post by Sertorio » Mon May 25, 2020 4:09 am

https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/trumps-ne ... na-at-bay/

(...) Congressman Mike Rogers (Albama, Republican), House Homeland Security Committee ranking member, went a step further in describing China as an existential threat to the US that should be dealt with accordingly.

“Their [China] totalitarian rule crushes human rights, undermines democratic institutions, and threatens our way of life,” he said, evoking old Cold War rhetoric but with a new sense of urgency and ire.(...)
I wonder how many Americans realize that they are about to start a war they cannot win. Once the shooting is over the US will be out of the western Pacific and of Southeast Asia. For good.

neverfail
Posts: 5453
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: War with China?

Post by neverfail » Mon May 25, 2020 2:52 pm

All you have based this discussion on is the opinion voiced by one blathering congressman representing a traditionally segregationist state in the deep South. His words do not define policy any more than Trump's tweets do.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 3720
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: War with China?

Post by Sertorio » Mon May 25, 2020 3:45 pm

neverfail wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 2:52 pm
All you have based this discussion on is the opinion voiced by one blathering congressman representing a traditionally segregationist state in the deep South. His words do not define policy any more than Trump's tweets do.
Maybe one example of US warmongering may be too little, but I didn't feel like going through Trump's trash just to reinforce what we all know to be true.

User avatar
Milo
Posts: 2659
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: War with China?

Post by Milo » Tue May 26, 2020 6:34 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 3:45 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 2:52 pm
All you have based this discussion on is the opinion voiced by one blathering congressman representing a traditionally segregationist state in the deep South. His words do not define policy any more than Trump's tweets do.
Maybe one example of US warmongering may be too little, but I didn't feel like going through Trump's trash just to reinforce what we all know to be true.
I don't know that to be true.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 3720
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: War with China?

Post by Sertorio » Tue May 26, 2020 6:46 am

Milo wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:34 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 3:45 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 2:52 pm
All you have based this discussion on is the opinion voiced by one blathering congressman representing a traditionally segregationist state in the deep South. His words do not define policy any more than Trump's tweets do.
Maybe one example of US warmongering may be too little, but I didn't feel like going through Trump's trash just to reinforce what we all know to be true.
I don't know that to be true.
No? Better fasten your seat belt...

neverfail
Posts: 5453
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: War with China?

Post by neverfail » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:16 pm

Xi Jinpeng forgets Issac Newton: for everty action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... 552pk.html

As Xi pushes harder and harder for global dominance, he is provoking a growing pushback. Not just from the US. A growing number of people, countries and organisations are realising that Xi's China is not the China they thought they knew.
...

.....knew and formerly loved!

One of multiple response taking place worldwide:
https://asiatimes.com/2020/06/australia ... r-hotspot/

Earlier this month, the Australia leader held a virtual summit with his Indian counterpart, Prime Minister Narendra Modi, where the two leaders signed a new defense agreement, which he said will serve as a “first step in deepening of the defense relationship” between the two sides in the Indian and Pacific oceans.

The Australia-India Mutual Logistics Support Arrangement and the Defense Science and Technology Implementing Arrangement will pave the way for expanded joint exercises, defense technology transfers, and strategic coordination across vital sea lines of communications.

Morrison and Modi announced their “share[d] vision of a free, open, inclusive and rules-based Indo-Pacific region to support the freedom of navigation, over-flight and peaceful and cooperative use of the seas” in the virtual summit.

India is particularly relevant to Australia, given their shared interests in the region.

In recent years, New Delhi has expanded maritime security cooperation not only with Australian allies like the US and Japan but also Southeast Asian partners such as Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines.

Last year, India’s naval forces joined their counterparts from US, Japan and the Philippines in naval exercises in the South China Sea.
This for Australia is quite outside the box. While India and Australia might be both member-states of the Commonwealth of nations this is the first time that the two have (to my knowledge) entered into a defence pact agreement with one another.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 3720
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: War with China?

Post by Sertorio » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:50 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:16 pm
Xi Jinpeng forgets Issac Newton: for everty action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... 552pk.html

As Xi pushes harder and harder for global dominance, he is provoking a growing pushback. Not just from the US. A growing number of people, countries and organisations are realising that Xi's China is not the China they thought they knew.
...

.....knew and formerly loved!

One of multiple response taking place worldwide:
https://asiatimes.com/2020/06/australia ... r-hotspot/

Earlier this month, the Australia leader held a virtual summit with his Indian counterpart, Prime Minister Narendra Modi, where the two leaders signed a new defense agreement, which he said will serve as a “first step in deepening of the defense relationship” between the two sides in the Indian and Pacific oceans.

The Australia-India Mutual Logistics Support Arrangement and the Defense Science and Technology Implementing Arrangement will pave the way for expanded joint exercises, defense technology transfers, and strategic coordination across vital sea lines of communications.

Morrison and Modi announced their “share[d] vision of a free, open, inclusive and rules-based Indo-Pacific region to support the freedom of navigation, over-flight and peaceful and cooperative use of the seas” in the virtual summit.

India is particularly relevant to Australia, given their shared interests in the region.

In recent years, New Delhi has expanded maritime security cooperation not only with Australian allies like the US and Japan but also Southeast Asian partners such as Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines.

Last year, India’s naval forces joined their counterparts from US, Japan and the Philippines in naval exercises in the South China Sea.
This for Australia is quite outside the box. While India and Australia might be both member-states of the Commonwealth of nations this is the first time that the two have (to my knowledge) entered into a defence pact agreement with one another.
If countries in Asia/Pacific feel that China is/may become a threat to them, then they should set up a regional defence alliance to cope with the problem. But without the US which is not an honest power broker.

neverfail
Posts: 5453
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: War with China?

Post by neverfail » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:42 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:50 am

If countries in Asia/Pacific feel that China is/may become a threat to them, then they should set up a regional defence alliance to cope with the problem. But without the US which is not an honest power broker.
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... 552pk.html

But it's not just Washington. The major powers of western Europe have grown alarmed about Beijing's intentions too. Germany has toughened its laws to protect companies against Chinese takeover, for instance.

And Britain is rethinking its embrace of China's cyber champion, Huawei. Government MPs have been angered by Beijing's behaviour over the pandemic and forced Prime Minister Boris Johnson to review whether the company will be allowed any part in its 5G network.
It is not just us Sertorio - though we of course are the most directly exposed. As you can see from the above quote from out of Peter Hartcher's piece even a major European power like Germany is now rattled by PRC machanations.

A regional defence alliance like the one you mentioned above is basically what has been forming - principly because the presently ill-led United States with its erratic president is wary of such foreign entanglements. :( If only we lived in an ideal world Sertorio. For who is fit to provide leadership for such a grouping?

India is the only one that is nuclear armed yet its own arsonal along with its medium range missiles cannot match those of the PRC. Japan has the industrial might but not much else going for it. As for Australia; well, perish the thought. We have the blessing of diplomatic agility due to our geography being a little more remote from China than that of the other members but lack the weight needed to lead.

To lead such a grouping we need the US - but a committed USA that has finally come to its senses with credible political leadership.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 3720
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: War with China?

Post by Sertorio » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:14 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:42 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:50 am

If countries in Asia/Pacific feel that China is/may become a threat to them, then they should set up a regional defence alliance to cope with the problem. But without the US which is not an honest power broker.
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... 552pk.html

But it's not just Washington. The major powers of western Europe have grown alarmed about Beijing's intentions too. Germany has toughened its laws to protect companies against Chinese takeover, for instance.

And Britain is rethinking its embrace of China's cyber champion, Huawei. Government MPs have been angered by Beijing's behaviour over the pandemic and forced Prime Minister Boris Johnson to review whether the company will be allowed any part in its 5G network.
It is not just us Sertorio - though we of course are the most directly exposed. As you can see from the above quote from out of Peter Hartcher's piece even a major European power like Germany is now rattled by PRC machanations.

A regional defence alliance like the one you mentioned above is basically what has been forming - principly because the presently ill-led United States with its erratic president is wary of such foreign entanglements. :( If only we lived in an ideal world Sertorio. For who is fit to provide leadership for such a grouping?

India is the only one that is nuclear armed yet its own arsonal along with its medium range missiles cannot match those of the PRC. Japan has the industrial might but not much else going for it. As for Australia; well, perish the thought. We have the blessing of diplomatic agility due to our geography being a little more remote from China than that of the other members but lack the weight needed to lead.

To lead such a grouping we need the US - but a committed USA that has finally come to its senses with credible political leadership.
I agree fully with you, except for the last paragraph. Any alliance with the US will be hostage to American interests to the detriment of everybody else's.

With care maybe Japan could become the backbone of a regional alliance for protection against any future designs of China in the region.

User avatar
Milo
Posts: 2659
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: War with China?

Post by Milo » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:26 pm

The difference between the US and China is Trump has five more years max, China has its leader "for life".

As a Canadian I know all too well being a long suffering US ally. Consider what would happen though if we shared a border with China!
"There was a major rebellion against Chinese rule in Tibet in March 1959, which was put down with the cost of much bloodshed and lasting bitterness on the part of the Tibetans."[
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1959_Tibetan_uprising

Post Reply