China gets nasty with Australia.

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Sertorio
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Re: China gets nasty with Australia.

Post by Sertorio » Sun May 24, 2020 9:16 am

Milo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 8:54 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:56 am
Milo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:32 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 3:48 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:31 pm
No less than 62 different countries supportered the Australian govt. initiave. In the end even the Trump White House belatedly followed the Australian script (not vice-versa)in support of the resulotion - and the PRC government has agreed to cooperate in the enquiry. I believe that in Beijing they are still muttering about imposing tariffs on Australian goods; but whether they do or not remains to be seen. In Beijing they do not like impertenent little countries like mine who get the better of them in international diplomacy - that causes loss of face. Having said all that, the PRC owes an explanation.
This is the official Chinese reaction:
Threats to sue China for its alleged role in the coronavirus pandemic are misguided, the country’s foreign minister has stated, adding that Beijing would co-operate with an even-handed inquiry into the global health crisis.

Lawsuits being threatened against Beijing are “frivolous” and have no precedent under international law, Wang Yi said on Sunday. He warned that using such tactics in an attempt to undermine China’s sovereignty would backfire.

If anybody thought they could use some ludicrous lawsuits to undermine China’s sovereignty and dignity, or to deprive the Chinese people of their hard-won gains, they’d be daydreaming and bring disgrace to themselves.

https://www.rt.com/news/489611-china-da ... ronavirus/
So China has not agreed to cooperate in the inquiry. It has agreed to co-operate with an even-handed inquiry into the global health crisis. If Australia and the other countries want to have China's cooperation, they know what to do... And that's not trying to embarrass China...
Yes, let's have an inquiry, as long as it won't find us at fault!
An inquiry is meant to find out what happened. Not to fake proof for what you want to convince people about what happened...
Ah, so China is in charge of what proof is fake?
Accusations of Chinese laboratories experimenting with coronavirus, without any evidence - real evidence, mind you! - is a form of fake proof, and therefore is no proof at all.

neverfail
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Re: China gets nasty with Australia.

Post by neverfail » Sun May 24, 2020 4:09 pm

An "even handed" enquiry is the one that the Australian government wants Sertorio. All of that background noise about lawsuits is nothing other than American politics being played out. Take no notice.

neverfail
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Re: China gets nasty with Australia.

Post by neverfail » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:17 am

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-08/ ... w/12332016

Trade and Tourism Minister Simon Birmingham has labelled China's warning against its citizens visiting Australia "unhelpful", as Chinese state media said the warning was issued in response to Australia's "anti-China" policies.

Key points:
There have been a number of high-profile racist incidents in Australia targeting Asians during the coronavirus pandemic
Nevertheless, analysts say that China's travel warning is the latest attempt to pressure Australia into cooperation
Incidents of xenophobia and harassment of foreigners have also been recorded in China during COVID-19

Senator Birmingham told RN this morning that he accepted Asian-Australians had faced incidents of racism since the COVID-19 pandemic began, but rejected the idea that Australia was unsafe for foreign tourists.
It's all shadow boxing , you know?

With scheduled flights to and from Australia suspended indefinitely, there is simply no way that Chinese tourists (or those of all other nationalities) can get to this country even if they wanted to. :lol:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... l-ban.html

So, what is the PRC government bullshitting on about?

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Re: China gets NOT SO nasty with Australia.

Post by neverfail » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:36 am

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-aust ... %20billion.

Australia trade surplus surges to record on gold rush, improving China demand

The PRC government may well be selectively targeting some Australian products with increased tariffs abd restrictive quotas but that is not stopping Australia from running its biggest current account surplus ever with the PRC (indeed, with the world in general).

The PTC private sector is contradicting their official party line.

In particular China's iron and steel producers have increased purchases of Australian iron ore as though there were to be no tomorrow.

Yet this good news on the international trade front will not be enough to save our economy from sunking into severe (coronaviruus recession. Indeed, our domestic economy and international trade seem to have moved in opposite directions in recent months.

The collapse of demand for imported goods within Australia is reflecting job losses, business bankrutcvies and shrinking household budgets , sadly, part of the reason for the record trade surplus. :(

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Sertorio
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Re: China gets NOT SO nasty with Australia.

Post by Sertorio » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:47 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:36 am
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-aust ... %20billion.

Australia trade surplus surges to record on gold rush, improving China demand

The PRC government may well be selectively targeting some Australian products with increased tariffs abd restrictive quotas but that is not stopping Australia from running its biggest current account surplus ever with the PRC (indeed, with the world in general).

The PTC private sector is contradicting their official party line.

In particular China's iron and steel producers have increased purchases of Australian iron ore as though there were to be no tomorrow.

Yet this good news on the international trade front will not be enough to save our economy from sunking into severe (coronaviruus recession. Indeed, our domestic economy and international trade seem to have moved in opposite directions in recent months.

The collapse of demand for imported goods within Australia is reflecting job losses, business bankrutcvies and shrinking household budgets , sadly, part of the reason for the record trade surplus. :(
Maybe this should encourage Australia dealing with China based only on its interest, and forget about following the US on all sorts of aggressive policies towards China.

neverfail
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Re: China gets NOT SO nasty with Australia.

Post by neverfail » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:53 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:47 am
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:36 am
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-aust ... %20billion.

Australia trade surplus surges to record on gold rush, improving China demand

The PRC government may well be selectively targeting some Australian products with increased tariffs abd restrictive quotas but that is not stopping Australia from running its biggest current account surplus ever with the PRC (indeed, with the world in general).

The PTC private sector is contradicting their official party line.

In particular China's iron and steel producers have increased purchases of Australian iron ore as though there were to be no tomorrow.

Yet this good news on the international trade front will not be enough to save our economy from sunking into severe (coronaviruus recession. Indeed, our domestic economy and international trade seem to have moved in opposite directions in recent months.

The collapse of demand for imported goods within Australia is reflecting job losses, business bankrutcvies and shrinking household budgets , sadly, part of the reason for the record trade surplus. :(
Maybe this should encourage Australia dealing with China based only on its interest, and forget about following the US on all sorts of aggressive policies towards China.
Trade is one thing but OPPOSING aggressive PRC expansionism and VOICING our DISAPPROVAL of their human rights abuses (NOT following the US on all sorts of aggressive policies towards China as you allege) is on another plaine altogether, Sertorio.

It is not just a matter of calling up our old ally the US in helping the country's around China's rim in their own opposition to PRC's sinister ambitions; inimical to themselves ( so far US policy in this part of the World has been entirely defensive and arguably not aggressive enough to act as an effective deterrent). We are proactively doing some things of our own to help strengthen their own capacity to oppose.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/06/ ... 20Thursday.

India and Australia sign deal to use each other's military bases

Deal being seen as part of security cooperation to balance China's growing economic and military weight in the region.

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Bu ... 74%2F24690

Agreement between the Government of Australia and the Government of Japan concerning Reciprocal Provision of Supplies and Services between the Australian Defence Force and the Self-Defense Forces of Japan

That agreement has since been upgraded by an additional one signed earlier this year.

Australia also has military defence ties with Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam - seperate from our alliance with the US.

All of our abovementioned Asian defence security partners are filled with anxiety over PRC attempts to strongarm their countries.
........................................................................................................................

As for our commercial trading ties with thr PRC: they do not do it as a favour to us but because the trade is as much to their advantage as to ours.

Let us take the biggest, most valuable single item that China imports from us in bulk; iron ore. LIke most other people you might be unaware that China is itself the World's biggest iron ore mining country. So why are they importing it from us?

The reason is simple. Chinese iron ore is low grade crap. Poor in metal content and high in impurities like silica that makes it expensive to process for the metal content. The Chinese iron and steel mills have apparently found that if they mix local ore with higher grade (haematite) ores imported from Australia or Brazil in a given proportion the resultant mix considerably upgrades the metal yield and significently lowers production costs.

In other words; the PRC trades with us because it is as much in their interests to do so as it is in ours.

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Sertorio
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Re: China gets NOT SO nasty with Australia.

Post by Sertorio » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:36 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:53 am

Trade is one thing but OPPOSING aggressive PRC expansionism and VOICING our DISAPPROVAL of their human rights abuses (NOT following the US on all sorts of aggressive policies towards China as you allege) is on another plaine altogether, Sertorio.
Except in extreme cases, the less we interfere on other countries affairs, the better it will be. And when we do, we must do it in a more even handed manner. For instance, has Australia criticized Saudi Arabia as frequently and as strongly as it does China? And has Australia criticized human rights abuses in the US as visibly as it does in respect of China? Has Australia criticized US/coalition bombings of civilian targets in Mossul and Raqqa?...

neverfail
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Re: China gets NOT SO nasty with Australia.

Post by neverfail » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:45 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:36 am
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:53 am

Trade is one thing but OPPOSING aggressive PRC expansionism and VOICING our DISAPPROVAL of their human rights abuses (NOT following the US on all sorts of aggressive policies towards China as you allege) is on another plaine altogether, Sertorio.
Except in extreme cases, the less we interfere on other countries affairs, the better it will be.
Quite apart from the fact that the PRC has no aversion to intefering in other country's affairs whenever it judges it expedient to do so, I would consider our conduct so far to have been within the bounds of normal diplomacy.

If you do not stand and speak up for your national interest, other powers will look upon it as weakness and further take advantage of you.

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Sertorio
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Re: China gets NOT SO nasty with Australia.

Post by Sertorio » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:44 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:45 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:36 am
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:53 am

Trade is one thing but OPPOSING aggressive PRC expansionism and VOICING our DISAPPROVAL of their human rights abuses (NOT following the US on all sorts of aggressive policies towards China as you allege) is on another plaine altogether, Sertorio.
Except in extreme cases, the less we interfere on other countries affairs, the better it will be.
Quite apart from the fact that the PRC has no aversion to intefering in other country's affairs whenever it judges it expedient to do so, I would consider our conduct so far to have been within the bounds of normal diplomacy.

If you do not stand and speak up for your national interest, other powers will look upon it as weakness and further take advantage of you.
In my view you are wrong. But I suppose our problem, as a species, is that we are far too young to have learned to control our aggressiveness. We are not just predators, we are stupid predators. No other species kills its own members, except occasionally when fighting for a mate. A quarter of a million years is apparently not enough to have taught us some basic survival lessons, so we do not waste a second in our stupid wars against our own kind. And we think we are civilized...

neverfail
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Re: China gets NOT SO nasty with Australia.

Post by neverfail » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:41 am

Quite apart from the fact that the PRC has no aversion to intefering in other country's affairs whenever it judges it expedient to do so, I would consider our conduct so far to have been within the bounds of normal diplomacy.

If you do not stand and speak up for your national interest, other powers will look upon it as weakness and further take advantage of you.
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:44 am
In my view you are wrong. But I suppose our problem, as a species, is that we are far too young to have learned to control our aggressiveness. We are not just predators, we are stupid predators. No other species kills its own members, except occasionally when fighting for a mate. A quarter of a million years is apparently not enough to have taught us some basic survival lessons, so we do not waste a second in our stupid wars against our own kind. And we think we are civilized...
When a pushy stranger tries to take your patch of turf away from you of course you defend it.

That is a bi-product of our instinct for survival - which every species of fauna including ours is equipped with.

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