China gets nasty with Australia.

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Milo
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Re: "Death by a thousand cuts" for Australia?

Post by Milo » Fri May 15, 2020 10:28 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:16 am
Milo wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 4:04 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 3:08 am
Milo wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 5:28 pm

Someday, a PRC oligarch may be arrested and imprisoned on your soil according to your law and Australia will be boycotted by China, and possibly other countries by then, to try to force you to abandon your rule of law. What will you do then?
Funny you give such an example, as that's exactly what the US has been doing for decades. They reject submitting themselves to any international court, they impose the extraterritoriality of their legal system, so that foreigners must submit to US law even when abroad and in respect of deeds outside US territory. They sanction people, firms and countries not submitting to US laws and legislation. If the US can do it, why not China? Of course, in my opinion, it is wrong to do it, whether we are talking of China or the US, but to you, only China's actions are objectionable, never similar US actions. Why is that, I wonder...
I am not aware of the US boycotting a country for following its law and international law. Let's have an example.
I wonder what your interpretation is of the US forcing under threat a pipe laying Swiss firm to drop the Nord Stream 2 contract before finishing it, although the Swiss firm was not violating any Swiss or international law... Or trying to prevent Iranian oil reaching Syria, although there is no UN sanctioned boycott against Syria, on what concerns oil imports...
As you provide no specific examples, my interpretation is that neither happened.

neverfail
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Re: China can't bully us into submission: the PM has Australians' backing

Post by neverfail » Fri May 15, 2020 3:42 pm

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 54thb.html
"Our policies are not for sale."

What policy? At issue is the Australian proposal for an independent, international review of the origins of the coronavirus, and the responses to it. When Foreign Affairs Minister Marise Payne announced the proposal, Australia was alone. It's now supported by almost all of the Western world.

Australia and the European Union are due to co-sponsor a resolution to create this inquiry at a ministerial meeting of the World Health Assembly on Monday and Tuesday. Beijing is noisily opposed.

"If they crack us, once cracked, no future government will stand up to them. Before long we'd be giving them trade concessions on iron ore and there'd be Confucius Institutes on every corner."
That's the point: if we crack on this one Beijing will in future walk all over us.
The New Zealand Sinologist Anne-Marie Brady says that this is precisely the correct approach for countries like Australia and NZ. "I call it the sound of one person arguing," Brady says. "In fact, it's a family secret in my home – you let the person let rip, but you don't respond."

Governments need to remain calm and resolute in the face of Chinese bluster, she says. Brady makes the point that China isn't actually angry at Australia. "It's putting on a show of anger," for effect. To respond in any way other than calm resolution is simply to allow Beijing to achieve the effect it seeks.
But what about the chorus of complaints about the government's position? Some business leaders and state governments have demanded that Australia solve the problem through diplomacy, use some "pragmatism", to protect the trading relationship.

"That stuff just emboldens Morrison," says a key participant. "He's in the trenches on this."

And, of course, when a business person calls for "pragmatism", the word used this week by Elders chief executive Mark Allison, he is calling for the abandonment of principle.
"Business people" are only answerable to their shareholders. Our elected government is answerable to an infinitely bigger group of "shareholders": the Australian public - whose fortunes rise and fall with that of their/our country. The best interests of the country take clear precedent over the short-term pecunary interests of corporate interests.

May God bless and strengthen our government in pursuit of this laudable goal.

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Sertorio
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Re: China can't bully us into submission: the PM has Australians' backing

Post by Sertorio » Fri May 15, 2020 3:56 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:42 pm

And, of course, when a business person calls for "pragmatism", the word used this week by Elders chief executive Mark Allison, he is calling for the abandonment of principle.
What "principle"?... Chances are that we will never find out what happened to trigger the coronavirus pandemic, and if mistakes were made they most probably were not done on purpose. The only "principle" that should be respected is getting everybody to cooperate to find a cure, a treatment or a vaccine for the disease. And that means cooperating with China, not antagonizing it to the point of China no longer wanting to cooperate with those accusing it.

neverfail
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Re: China can't bully us into submission: the PM has Australians' backing

Post by neverfail » Sat May 16, 2020 3:57 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:56 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:42 pm

And, of course, when a business person calls for "pragmatism", the word used this week by Elders chief executive Mark Allison, he is calling for the abandonment of principle.
What "principle"?... Chances are that we will never find out what happened to trigger the coronavirus pandemic, and if mistakes were made they most probably were not done on purpose. The only "principle" that should be respected is getting everybody to cooperate to find a cure, a treatment or a vaccine for the disease. And that means cooperating with China, not antagonizing it to the point of China no longer wanting to cooperate with those accusing it.
The journalist Peter Hartcher was referring to the government selling out on policy for the sake of serving business interests here that profit through commerce and trade with the People's Republic.

As a socialist I thought you would be delighted at the knowledge of a government overriding the urgings of powerful capitalist corporations like that. According to your conventional wisdom the state is there to serve the best interests of the capitalists - right? Well, our government is not even a social democrat one but a right-of-centre coalition that you could normally expect to have the best interests of those corporations at heart. Yet they are still going aganist what interested corporations urge them to do

But apparently, you make an exception for capitalists who support the policy position of a power you favour like the PRC? Very inconsistent of you to do so Sertorio. :)

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armchair_pundit
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Re: China can't bully us into submission: the PM has Australians' backing

Post by armchair_pundit » Sat May 16, 2020 5:50 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:57 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:56 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:42 pm

And, of course, when a business person calls for "pragmatism", the word used this week by Elders chief executive Mark Allison, he is calling for the abandonment of principle.
What "principle"?... Chances are that we will never find out what happened to trigger the coronavirus pandemic, and if mistakes were made they most probably were not done on purpose. The only "principle" that should be respected is getting everybody to cooperate to find a cure, a treatment or a vaccine for the disease. And that means cooperating with China, not antagonizing it to the point of China no longer wanting to cooperate with those accusing it.
The journalist Peter Hartcher was referring to the government selling out on policy for the sake of serving business interests here that profit through commerce and trade with the People's Republic.

As a socialist I thought you would be delighted at the knowledge of a government overriding the urgings of powerful capitalist corporations like that. According to your conventional wisdom the state is there to serve the best interests of the capitalists - right? Well, our government is not even a social democrat one but a right-of-centre coalition that you could normally expect to have the best interests of those corporations at heart. Yet they are still going aganist what interested corporations urge them to do

But apparently, you make an exception for capitalists who support the policy position of a power you favour like the PRC? Very inconsistent of you to do so Sertorio. :)
Of course Australia is China's bitch. They may complain about it, but there you are... Oz will fold, but "feel good about itself" becuase they gave the CCP a "real dressing down'

Sell out your standards and feel good about it!

Argue about the price and the morality of it all while selling your soul and children's future to the CCP.

And then tell us how superior you are to the ugly USA... or beg us to bail you out when you lose the game...

Image

neverfail
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Re: China can't bully us into submission: the PM has Australians' backing

Post by neverfail » Sat May 16, 2020 10:05 pm

armchair_pundit wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:50 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:57 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:56 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:42 pm

And, of course, when a business person calls for "pragmatism", the word used this week by Elders chief executive Mark Allison, he is calling for the abandonment of principle.
What "principle"?... Chances are that we will never find out what happened to trigger the coronavirus pandemic, and if mistakes were made they most probably were not done on purpose. The only "principle" that should be respected is getting everybody to cooperate to find a cure, a treatment or a vaccine for the disease. And that means cooperating with China, not antagonizing it to the point of China no longer wanting to cooperate with those accusing it.
The journalist Peter Hartcher was referring to the government selling out on policy for the sake of serving business interests here that profit through commerce and trade with the People's Republic.

As a socialist I thought you would be delighted at the knowledge of a government overriding the urgings of powerful capitalist corporations like that. According to your conventional wisdom the state is there to serve the best interests of the capitalists - right? Well, our government is not even a social democrat one but a right-of-centre coalition that you could normally expect to have the best interests of those corporations at heart. Yet they are still going aganist what interested corporations urge them to do

But apparently, you make an exception for capitalists who support the policy position of a power you favour like the PRC? Very inconsistent of you to do so Sertorio. :)
Of course Australia is China's bitch. They may complain about it, but there you are... Oz will fold, but "feel good about itself" becuase they gave the CCP a "real dressing down'

Sell out your standards and feel good about it!

Argue about the price and the morality of it all while selling your soul and children's future to the CCP.

And then tell us how superior you are to the ugly USA... or beg us to bail you out when you lose the game...

Image
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice cartoon strip.

neverfail
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Location: Singapore

Re: It seems we are not the only one.

Post by neverfail » Sun May 17, 2020 1:30 am

Coalition of 62 countries backs joint Australian, EU push for independent inquiry into coronavirus outbreak

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-17/ ... 9/12256910

A coalition of 62 countries has backed a joint Australian and European Union push for an independent inquiry into the coronavirus outbreak ahead of a crucial World Health Assembly (WHA) meeting tomorrow in Geneva.

Australia was the first nation to call for an independent inquiry into how the coronavirus started.

That drew furious condemnation from Beijing, which accused Australia of launching a political attack on China. But international support for the idea has been steadily growing.

As of Sunday evening, Canberra time, 62 nations — including Indonesia, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Russia, South Africa and the United Kingdom — had backed the motion.

The motion does not specifically mention China or the city of Wuhan where the outbreak is believed to have begun.
(Significently, the US has not yet officially backed the enquiry and I would like to know why not?)

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Sertorio
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Re: It seems we are not the only one.

Post by Sertorio » Sun May 17, 2020 3:56 am

neverfail wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 1:30 am
Coalition of 62 countries backs joint Australian, EU push for independent inquiry into coronavirus outbreak

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-17/ ... 9/12256910

A coalition of 62 countries has backed a joint Australian and European Union push for an independent inquiry into the coronavirus outbreak ahead of a crucial World Health Assembly (WHA) meeting tomorrow in Geneva.

Australia was the first nation to call for an independent inquiry into how the coronavirus started.

That drew furious condemnation from Beijing, which accused Australia of launching a political attack on China. But international support for the idea has been steadily growing.

As of Sunday evening, Canberra time, 62 nations — including Indonesia, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Russia, South Africa and the United Kingdom — had backed the motion.

The motion does not specifically mention China or the city of Wuhan where the outbreak is believed to have begun.
(Significently, the US has not yet officially backed the enquiry and I would like to know why not?)
I do not dispute the need to know how the coronavirus started. If nothing else, to make sure it doesn't happen again. It is the timing of this campaign which bothers me. The priority is fighting and defeating the virus. Finding out how it all started is not urgent and so it may wait a bit longer. Particularly when everybody sees that this is just an excuse to embarrass China... But hypocrisy has many disguises...

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Doc
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Re: It seems we are not the only one.

Post by Doc » Sun May 17, 2020 4:11 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 3:56 am
neverfail wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 1:30 am
Coalition of 62 countries backs joint Australian, EU push for independent inquiry into coronavirus outbreak

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-17/ ... 9/12256910

A coalition of 62 countries has backed a joint Australian and European Union push for an independent inquiry into the coronavirus outbreak ahead of a crucial World Health Assembly (WHA) meeting tomorrow in Geneva.

Australia was the first nation to call for an independent inquiry into how the coronavirus started.

That drew furious condemnation from Beijing, which accused Australia of launching a political attack on China. But international support for the idea has been steadily growing.

As of Sunday evening, Canberra time, 62 nations — including Indonesia, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Russia, South Africa and the United Kingdom — had backed the motion.

The motion does not specifically mention China or the city of Wuhan where the outbreak is believed to have begun.
(Significently, the US has not yet officially backed the enquiry and I would like to know why not?)
I do not dispute the need to know how the coronavirus started. If nothing else, to make sure it doesn't happen again. It is the timing of this campaign which bothers me. The priority is fighting and defeating the virus. Finding out how it all started is not urgent and so it may wait a bit longer. Particularly when everybody sees that this is just an excuse to embarrass China... But hypocrisy has many disguises...
If not now then never.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Milo
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Re: It seems we are not the only one.

Post by Milo » Sun May 17, 2020 11:47 pm

Doc wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 4:11 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 3:56 am
neverfail wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 1:30 am
Coalition of 62 countries backs joint Australian, EU push for independent inquiry into coronavirus outbreak

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-17/ ... 9/12256910

A coalition of 62 countries has backed a joint Australian and European Union push for an independent inquiry into the coronavirus outbreak ahead of a crucial World Health Assembly (WHA) meeting tomorrow in Geneva.

Australia was the first nation to call for an independent inquiry into how the coronavirus started.

That drew furious condemnation from Beijing, which accused Australia of launching a political attack on China. But international support for the idea has been steadily growing.

As of Sunday evening, Canberra time, 62 nations — including Indonesia, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Russia, South Africa and the United Kingdom — had backed the motion.

The motion does not specifically mention China or the city of Wuhan where the outbreak is believed to have begun.
(Significently, the US has not yet officially backed the enquiry and I would like to know why not?)
I do not dispute the need to know how the coronavirus started. If nothing else, to make sure it doesn't happen again. It is the timing of this campaign which bothers me. The priority is fighting and defeating the virus. Finding out how it all started is not urgent and so it may wait a bit longer. Particularly when everybody sees that this is just an excuse to embarrass China... But hypocrisy has many disguises...
If not now then never.
Our PM is trying to avoid committing to this, he will have to at some point.

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