Italy, Coronovirus and immigrants from Africa?

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neverfail
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Italy, Coronovirus and immigrants from Africa?

Post by neverfail » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:40 am

For years we have witnessed television news video footage of groups of African refugees and immigrants attem-pting to cross the Mediterranean to Italy often crowded into inflatable rubber boats. Yet you never seem to see them featured now.

Would anyone know whether this is because news of the pandemic in italy now deters these from attempting the crossing or are they still trying to do it but news of the pandemic's spread has so absorded the attention of the international media trhat they consider the arrival of new boatloads of Africans to be not worth reporting?

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Doc
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Re: Italy, Coronovirus and immigrants from Africa?

Post by Doc » Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:57 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:40 am
For years we have witnessed television news video footage of groups of African refugees and immigrants attem-pting to cross the Mediterranean to Italy often crowded into inflatable rubber boats. Yet you never seem to see them featured now.

Would anyone know whether this is because news of the pandemic in italy now deters these from attempting the crossing or are they still trying to do it but news of the pandemic's spread has so absorded the attention of the international media trhat they consider the arrival of new boatloads of Africans to be not worth reporting?
IT is pretty well known that Italy initially was going to deny entry to anyone coming from China because of CCPOS-19 The CCP objected saying it was racist. Italy then stopped doing all checks of passengers arriving from China. A few weeks later the CCPOS banned entry into China of Italians.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: Italy, Coronovirus and immigrants from Africa?

Post by neverfail » Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:08 pm

Doc wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:57 am

IT is pretty well known that Italy initially was going to deny entry to anyone coming from China because of CCPOS-19 The CCP objected saying it was racist. Italy then stopped doing all checks of passengers arriving from China. A few weeks later the CCPOS banned entry into China of Italians.
Hi Doc.

It is not just the CCP that tries that ruse when they don't get their own way. I recall how some 20 years ago a group of long settled Chinese businessmen here wanted to build a clubhouse in our inner-city and the City Council rejected their plan because it violated the City planning code. So they alleged "racism" to see whether they could sway the city council into letting them do what they wanted. The city council refused to budge on the issue so the businessman just quietly accepted the ruling.

Thats the poinht Doc - they do that to test your resolve. It is turns out that you are strong in resolve they respect you for it.

I have long seen the Italians as very big on personality but not nearly so strong in character.

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Sertorio
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Re: Italy, Coronovirus and immigrants from Africa?

Post by Sertorio » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:18 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:08 pm
Doc wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:57 am

IT is pretty well known that Italy initially was going to deny entry to anyone coming from China because of CCPOS-19 The CCP objected saying it was racist. Italy then stopped doing all checks of passengers arriving from China. A few weeks later the CCPOS banned entry into China of Italians.
Hi Doc.

It is not just the CCP that tries that ruse when they don't get their own way. I recall how some 20 years ago a group of long settled Chinese businessmen here wanted to build a clubhouse in our inner-city and the City Council rejected their plan because it violated the City planning code. So they alleged "racism" to see whether they could sway the city council into letting them do what they wanted. The city council refused to budge on the issue so the businessman just quietly accepted the ruling.

Thats the poinht Doc - they do that to test your resolve. It is turns out that you are strong in resolve they respect you for it.

I have long seen the Italians as very big on personality but not nearly so strong in character.
Sometimes I feel that Italians do not see themselves as a community, in the way ancient Romans did. Their allegiance is to their region, not to Italy. It would be possible to combine both - as most of us in Europe do (there are exceptions, in Belgium, Spain and the UK) - but Italians never seem to act as a nation. In a crisis such as the present one, that has consequences.

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cassowary
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Re: Italy, Coronovirus and immigrants from Africa?

Post by cassowary » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:57 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:18 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:08 pm
Doc wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:57 am

IT is pretty well known that Italy initially was going to deny entry to anyone coming from China because of CCPOS-19 The CCP objected saying it was racist. Italy then stopped doing all checks of passengers arriving from China. A few weeks later the CCPOS banned entry into China of Italians.
Hi Doc.

It is not just the CCP that tries that ruse when they don't get their own way. I recall how some 20 years ago a group of long settled Chinese businessmen here wanted to build a clubhouse in our inner-city and the City Council rejected their plan because it violated the City planning code. So they alleged "racism" to see whether they could sway the city council into letting them do what they wanted. The city council refused to budge on the issue so the businessman just quietly accepted the ruling.

Thats the poinht Doc - they do that to test your resolve. It is turns out that you are strong in resolve they respect you for it.

I have long seen the Italians as very big on personality but not nearly so strong in character.
Sometimes I feel that Italians do not see themselves as a community, in the way ancient Romans did. Their allegiance is to their region, not to Italy. It would be possible to combine both - as most of us in Europe do (there are exceptions, in Belgium, Spain and the UK) - but Italians never seem to act as a nation. In a crisis such as the present one, that has consequences.
The Northern Italians are more like Northern Europeans. They are rich. The South Italians are more like Northern Africans. Bums. Even the food is different. Lombardy is named after a Germanic tribe, the Lombards who conquered the region.

South Italy and Sicily were conquered by the Arabs. Hmm.
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Sertorio
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Re: Italy, Coronovirus and immigrants from Africa?

Post by Sertorio » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:33 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:57 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:18 am

Sometimes I feel that Italians do not see themselves as a community, in the way ancient Romans did. Their allegiance is to their region, not to Italy. It would be possible to combine both - as most of us in Europe do (there are exceptions, in Belgium, Spain and the UK) - but Italians never seem to act as a nation. In a crisis such as the present one, that has consequences.
The Northern Italians are more like Northern Europeans. They are rich. The South Italians are more like Northern Africans. Bums. Even the food is different. Lombardy is named after a Germanic tribe, the Lombards who conquered the region.

South Italy and Sicily were conquered by the Arabs. Hmm.
Arabs did conquer Sicily, but their hold on the island lasted little more than 100 years. And Southern Italy was never under Arab rule:
The history of Islam in Sicily and Southern Italy began with the first Arab settlement in Sicily, at Mazara, which was captured in 827.The subsequent rule of Sicily and Malta started in the 10th century. Islamic rule over all Sicily began in 902, and the Emirate of Sicily lasted from 831 until 1061. Though Sicily was the primary Muslim stronghold in Italy, some temporary footholds, the most substantial of which was the port city of Bari (occupied from 847 until 871), were established on the mainland peninsula, especially in mainland Southern Italy, though Muslim raids, mainly those of Muhammad I Abu 'l-Abbas, reached as far north as Naples, Rome and the northern region of Piedmont. The Muslim raids were part of a larger struggle for power in Italy and Europe, with Christian Byzantine, Frankish, Norman and local Italian forces also competing for control. Muslims were sometimes sought as allies by various Christian factions against other factions.

The first permanent Arab settlement on Sicily occurred in 827, but it was not until Taormina fell in 902 that the entire island fell under their sway, though Rometta held out until 965. In that year the Kalbids established the independence of their emirate from the Fatimid Caliphate. In 1061 the first Norman liberators took Messina, and by 1071 Palermo and its citadel (1072) were captured. In 1091 Noto fell to the Normans, and the conquest was complete. Malta fell later that year, though the Arab administration was kept in place, marking the final chapter of this period. The conquests of the Normans established Roman Catholicism firmly in the region, where Eastern Christianity had been prominent during the time of Byzantine rule and even remained significant during Islamic period. Widespread conversion ensued, leading to the disappearance of Islam in Sicily by the 1280s. In 1245, Muslim Sicilians were deported to the settlement of Lucera, by order of Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II. In 1300, Giovanni Pipino da Barletta, count of Altamura, seized Lucera and exiled or sold into slavery its population, bringing an end to the medieval Muslim presence in Italy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... hern_Italy

neverfail
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Re: Italy, Coronovirus and immigrants from Africa?

Post by neverfail » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:13 pm

The Normans were invading Sicily before they invaded England in 1066. Ambitious empire builders.

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cassowary
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Re: Italy, Coronovirus and immigrants from Africa?

Post by cassowary » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:18 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:33 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:57 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:18 am

Sometimes I feel that Italians do not see themselves as a community, in the way ancient Romans did. Their allegiance is to their region, not to Italy. It would be possible to combine both - as most of us in Europe do (there are exceptions, in Belgium, Spain and the UK) - but Italians never seem to act as a nation. In a crisis such as the present one, that has consequences.
The Northern Italians are more like Northern Europeans. They are rich. The South Italians are more like Northern Africans. Bums. Even the food is different. Lombardy is named after a Germanic tribe, the Lombards who conquered the region.

South Italy and Sicily were conquered by the Arabs. Hmm.
Arabs did conquer Sicily, but their hold on the island lasted little more than 100 years. And Southern Italy was never under Arab rule:
The history of Islam in Sicily and Southern Italy began with the first Arab settlement in Sicily, at Mazara, which was captured in 827.The subsequent rule of Sicily and Malta started in the 10th century. Islamic rule over all Sicily began in 902, and the Emirate of Sicily lasted from 831 until 1061. Though Sicily was the primary Muslim stronghold in Italy, some temporary footholds, the most substantial of which was the port city of Bari (occupied from 847 until 871), were established on the mainland peninsula, especially in mainland Southern Italy, though Muslim raids, mainly those of Muhammad I Abu 'l-Abbas, reached as far north as Naples, Rome and the northern region of Piedmont. The Muslim raids were part of a larger struggle for power in Italy and Europe, with Christian Byzantine, Frankish, Norman and local Italian forces also competing for control. Muslims were sometimes sought as allies by various Christian factions against other factions.

The first permanent Arab settlement on Sicily occurred in 827, but it was not until Taormina fell in 902 that the entire island fell under their sway, though Rometta held out until 965. In that year the Kalbids established the independence of their emirate from the Fatimid Caliphate. In 1061 the first Norman liberators took Messina, and by 1071 Palermo and its citadel (1072) were captured. In 1091 Noto fell to the Normans, and the conquest was complete. Malta fell later that year, though the Arab administration was kept in place, marking the final chapter of this period. The conquests of the Normans established Roman Catholicism firmly in the region, where Eastern Christianity had been prominent during the time of Byzantine rule and even remained significant during Islamic period. Widespread conversion ensued, leading to the disappearance of Islam in Sicily by the 1280s. In 1245, Muslim Sicilians were deported to the settlement of Lucera, by order of Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II. In 1300, Giovanni Pipino da Barletta, count of Altamura, seized Lucera and exiled or sold into slavery its population, bringing an end to the medieval Muslim presence in Italy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... hern_Italy
South Italy under Islam
The history of Islam in Sicily and Southern Italy began with the first Arab settlement in Sicily, at Mazara, which was captured in 827.[1] The subsequent rule of Sicily and Malta started in the 10th century.[2] Islamic rule over all Sicily began in 902, and the Emirate of Sicily lasted from 831 until 1061. Though Sicily was the primary Muslim stronghold in Italy, some temporary footholds, the most substantial of which was the port city of Bari (occupied from 847 until 871), were established on the mainland peninsula, especially in mainland Southern Italy, though Muslim raids, mainly those of Muhammad I Abu 'l-Abbas, reached as far north as Naples, Rome and the northern region of Piedmont.
The Emirate of Sicily lasted for more than 200 years. They established themselves at Bari on the mainland Southern Italy for a few decades and raided as far north as Rome and Naples.
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cassowary
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Re: Italy, Coronovirus and immigrants from Africa?

Post by cassowary » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:13 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:13 pm
The Normans were invading Sicily before they invaded England in 1066. Ambitious empire builders.
Yes, I did read about that. Normans were the toughest people in the middle ages. They were kind of like the Israelis today. Originally from Scandinavia, they settled in Normandy. Then conquered South Italy, Sicily, Antioch. Of course their greatest conquest was England.
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Re: Italy, Coronovirus and immigrants from Africa?

Post by neverfail » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:32 am

cassowary wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:13 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:13 pm
The Normans were invading Sicily before they invaded England in 1066. Ambitious empire builders.
Yes, I did read about that. Normans were the toughest people in the middle ages. They were kind of like the Israelis today. Originally from Scandinavia, they settled in Normandy. Then conquered South Italy, Sicily, Antioch. Of course their greatest conquest was England.
Why the Normans invaded and overran Sicily has a lot to do with chaotic conditions on the peninsula at the time. They were only able to do it within an environment of shifting alliances

In the case of England it was more straightforward. The Anglo Saxon king, Edward the Confessor, prominised the throne to Duke William and later got cold feet. He went on to favour his retainer Harold Godwin. After Edward's death the Witan (council of nobles) met and confirmed Godwin as King Harold. Of course Duke William felt that his trust had been betrayed and was outraged. No warlord ruler could be made to look like a fool in front of his subjects so William began to organise his planned invasion.

Now Cass, all of this might be incendentaslly interesting but still does not answer the question I asked at the start of this thread. In light of the pestelence in Italy are refugees and immigrants from Africa still attempting to cross from North Africa into the country?

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