People dragged into quarantine in China

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cassowary
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Re: People dragged into quarantine in China

Post by cassowary » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:27 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:36 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:47 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:14 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:56 pm
History often repeats itself....
..."first as tragedy and then as farce". (Karl Marx).

The trouble with American politics are that they seem to be nothing but farce.

So you see, you have nothing to worry about if Bernie gets elected.

:lol: (the dialectic reassures you so.) :D
There are too many checks and balances for Bernie to become a dictator. Also the tradition of democracy is so strong in the US. Even if Bernie does not become a dictator, he will ruin the economy with his Socialist policies. That's bad enough.
How do you know? Your usual "guilt by association" argument?

:lol: Don't take it so seriously Cass!
Just look at his proposals. They will bankrupt the country.
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Re: People dragged into quarantine in China

Post by neverfail » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:50 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:27 pm

Just look at his proposals. They will bankrupt the country.
Every President since and including Ronald Reagan have so done a very good job in jointly presiding over the buildup of America's national debt and so far the country has not gone bankrupt.

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cassowary
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Re: People dragged into quarantine in China

Post by cassowary » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:53 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:50 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:27 pm

Just look at his proposals. They will bankrupt the country.
Every President since and including Ronald Reagan have so done a very good job in jointly presiding over the buildup of America's national debt and so far the country has not gone bankrupt.
With Bernie's plans, It will.
Over the next decade, budget deficits will total $9.4 trillion, with interest costs alone totaling $5.8 trillion. Imagine what would happen if Bernie Sanders, with his $28 trillion health plan, were elected.

That’s the additional federal spending necessary to finance Sanders’ “Medicare for All” plan, but only if his plan saves $6.3 trillion over the next decade. All this is spelled out in a memorandum written by Gerald Friedman, a professor at the University of Massachusetts.
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Re: One Sanders policy likely to be good for America.

Post by neverfail » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:13 am

cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:53 pm


That’s the additional federal spending necessary to finance Sanders’ “Medicare for All” plan, but only if his plan saves $6.3 trillion over the next decade. All this is spelled out in a memorandum written by Gerald Friedman, a professor at the University of Massachusetts.

We have had "Medicare for all" here in Australia since 1984 - that's already for over 35 years. Of course it costs us money - billions of dollars of it. But the benefits are well worth it.

Apart from providing basic health and hospital cover for all it saves the community an enormous amount of money in the form of the doctoring and hospital fees they do not have to pay. In the USA where they do not yet have this blessing the annual cost of health care is almost double what it is in Australia.

(Think about it cass. More money spent by the public on health care in the US means that Americans have less money to spend on all other things - so the rest of their national economy suffers from shaorfalls in spending. Even you with your idiotic aversion for the prospect of anyone (possibly other than yourself) getting "free stuff' can surely see that simple fact for yourself by now?)

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/22/the-rea ... he-us.html

It has not sent this country broke as our public debt as a % of GDP is only a fraction that of the USA.

If a Sanders administration (as long as Congress and the powerful vested and sectional interests opposed to his plan will allow him to implement it as it should be) funds Medicare for all the way we do it here in Australia (with a small levy on all incomes) it will not send anybody broke - least of all the country.

As long as President Bernie Sanders is allowed to keep that particular promise (no guarantee that he will - the USA is a very different country to mine) then I can see nothing but good coming to the USA from it.

Doc2
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Re: One Sanders policy likely to be good for America.

Post by Doc2 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:23 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:13 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:53 pm


That’s the additional federal spending necessary to finance Sanders’ “Medicare for All” plan, but only if his plan saves $6.3 trillion over the next decade. All this is spelled out in a memorandum written by Gerald Friedman, a professor at the University of Massachusetts.

We have had "Medicare for all" here in Australia since 1984 - that's already for over 35 years. Of course it costs us money - billions of dollars of it. But the benefits are well worth it.

Apart from providing basic health and hospital cover for all it saves the community an enormous amount of money in the form of the doctoring and hospital fees they do not have to pay. In the USA where they do not yet have this blessing the annual cost of health care is almost double what it is in Australia.

(Think about it cass. More money spent by the public on health care in the US means that Americans have less money to spend on all other things - so the rest of their national economy suffers from shaorfalls in spending. Even you with your idiotic aversion for the prospect of anyone (possibly other than yourself) getting "free stuff' can surely see that simple fact for yourself by now?)

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/22/the-rea ... he-us.html

It has not sent this country broke as our public debt as a % of GDP is only a fraction that of the USA.

If a Sanders administration (as long as Congress and the powerful vested and sectional interests opposed to his plan will allow him to implement it as it should be) funds Medicare for all the way we do it here in Australia (with a small levy on all incomes) it will not send anybody broke - least of all the country.

As long as President Bernie Sanders is allowed to keep that particular promise (no guarantee that he will - the USA is a very different country to mine) then I can see nothing but good coming to the USA from it.
Make no mistake NF. The US has Medicaid which largely is medicare for most. The problem with health care cost in the US is they are high as a direct result of the federal government getting into health care. Starting in 1964 when Medicare was founded. Previous to that the price of health care was quite low in the US THE MAIN PURPOSE OF MEDICARE WAS TO RAISE PRICES. This was done so doctors would get paid more and therefore there would be more doctors in case there was a nuclear war.

To make more positions for doctors specializations were made and Medicare DIRECTLY PAID for procedures so they would have a reason to practice medicine and more importantly get paid for it. Previous to that there was little need for health insurance.

Doc2
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Re: People dragged into quarantine in China

Post by Doc2 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:55 am

Doc wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:57 am
cassowary wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:49 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:21 am

I don't believe the numbers coming out of China. Given the forced quarantine of Chinese citizens it seems to me that they are hoping to end this crisis by ending the lockdown and arresting anyone that might be infected, as a means of containing the outbreak.

They are doing this to save their economy from losing to much growth from the shut down of it.

Someone mentioned when all this began that they were fearful that the CCP would nuke Wuhan to destroy the virus. The CCP is in this to protect itself first not the people of China.
This forced quarantine will backfire. People will now be afraid to report sick. This will spread the disease even more.
apparently security forces are going door to door checking temperatures and arresting any one with a temperature or a cough, irregardless of whether they have coronavirus or not. Then they are taking them to quarantine facilities where people won't be quarantined from each other.

Whoever in the CCP came up with this idiotic policy should be facing execution for mass murder.
I would add to this that the oligarchs that came of with the idea of moving American production to China, so they could make billions, should be facing the same fate

https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2020/02/ ... -supplies/

Coronavirus Outbreak Exposes China’s Monopoly on U.S. Drug, Medical Supplies

China is a source of not only finished goods, but also of input parts and raw materials. A substantial number of the materials needed for defense and electronic systems come from China, and that nation is “the single or sole supplier for a number of specialty chemicals,” according to a recent Defense Department report. Rare earth minerals, which are critical to electronics, are largely mined in China. As a result, Chinese disruptions don’t just hit Chinese manufacturing, they hit everyone’s. Automakers have already had to slow or shut down factories globally due to supply shortages.

Perhaps the biggest concern is over medical supplies. China produces and exports a large amount of pharmaceuticals to the U.S., including 97 percent of all antibiotics and 80 percent of the active ingredients used to make drugs here. Penicillin, ibuprofen, and aspirin largely come from China. Last month, the medical supply firm Cardinal Health recalled 2.9 million surgical gowns “cross contaminated” at a plant in China; the blood pressure drug valsartan also saw shortages recently, thanks to tainted active ingredients at one Chinese plant. The combination of supply chain disruptions and increased demand at hospitals if coronavirus spreads to the U.S. could prove devastating.

In a dark irony, most of the world’s face masks—now ubiquitous in China as a precaution—are made in China and Taiwan, and even for those made elsewhere, some component parts are Chinese-sourced. Shortages have led China to declare the masks a “strategic resource,” reserving them for medical workers. U.S. hospitals are “critically low” on respiratory masks, according to medical-supply middlemen. Lack of protective gear could increase vulnerability to the virus, and the one place on earth suffering from production shutdowns is the one place where most of the protective gear originates [emphasis added].
So as Greta Thunberg likes to say "Put them up against a wall."

neverfail
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Re: One Sanders policy likely to be good for America.

Post by neverfail » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:57 pm

Doc2 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:23 am
neverfail wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:13 am

As long as President Bernie Sanders is allowed to keep that particular promise (no guarantee that he will - the USA is a very different country to mine) then I can see nothing but good coming to the USA from it.
Make no mistake NF. The US has Medicaid which largely is medicare for most. The problem with health care cost in the US is they are high as a direct result of the federal government getting into health care. Starting in 1964 when Medicare was founded. Previous to that the price of health care was quite low in the US THE MAIN PURPOSE OF MEDICARE WAS TO RAISE PRICES. This was done so doctors would get paid more and therefore there would be more doctors in case there was a nuclear war.

To make more positions for doctors specializations were made and Medicare DIRECTLY PAID for procedures so they would have a reason to practice medicine and more importantly get paid for it. Previous to that there was little need for health insurance.
Doc, that is an interesting viewpoint and I am not even suggesting that you are wrong. But a quick glance at Google's offerings on the topic does seems not to back you up on that impression:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)

No mention in either link of either of them serving to raise overall medical costs in the USA.

Perhaps it is time to scrap both as ineffectual in favour of universal coverage as suggested by Bernie Sanders as a key component of his electioneering platform?

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Doc
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Re: One Sanders policy likely to be good for America.

Post by Doc » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:14 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:57 pm
Doc2 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:23 am
neverfail wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:13 am

As long as President Bernie Sanders is allowed to keep that particular promise (no guarantee that he will - the USA is a very different country to mine) then I can see nothing but good coming to the USA from it.
Make no mistake NF. The US has Medicaid which largely is medicare for most. The problem with health care cost in the US is they are high as a direct result of the federal government getting into health care. Starting in 1964 when Medicare was founded. Previous to that the price of health care was quite low in the US THE MAIN PURPOSE OF MEDICARE WAS TO RAISE PRICES. This was done so doctors would get paid more and therefore there would be more doctors in case there was a nuclear war.

To make more positions for doctors specializations were made and Medicare DIRECTLY PAID for procedures so they would have a reason to practice medicine and more importantly get paid for it. Previous to that there was little need for health insurance.
Doc, that is an interesting viewpoint and I am not even suggesting that you are wrong. But a quick glance at Google's offerings on the topic does seems not to back you up on that impression:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)

No mention in either link of either of them serving to raise overall medical costs in the USA.

Perhaps it is time to scrap both as ineffectual in favour of universal coverage as suggested by Bernie Sanders as a key component of his electioneering platform?
You have to read a little deeper than that NF. I did a lot of reading about it when Obamacare first came up. Medicare was setup so there would be many more doctors. In truth I think some of the country's leading doctors were looking for big pay increases for themselves.

My father actually save the bill from when I was born. It was for $109 pre medicare. Today the cost of a normal child birth is around $25,000 That far far exceeds the rate of inflation since then.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: One Sanders policy likely to be good for America.

Post by neverfail » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:38 pm

Doc wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:14 pm

You have to read a little deeper than that NF. I did a lot of reading about it when Obamacare first came up. Medicare was setup so there would be many more doctors. In truth I think some of the country's leading doctors were looking for big pay increases for themselves.

My father actually save the bill from when I was born. It was for $109 pre medicare. Today the cost of a normal child birth is around $25,000 That far far exceeds the rate of inflation since then.
Good points Doc!

I defer to your insight in this.

neverfail
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Re: Out of control?

Post by neverfail » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:08 am

Coronavirus COVID-19 prompts China to lock down its megacities as the death toll climbs

Around 500 million people in China are currently affected by policies put in place restricting movement, to contain COVID-19.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-15/ ... e/11968114

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