Britain leaves the EU!

Discussion of current events
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cassowary
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Re: Britain leaves the EU!

Post by cassowary » Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:44 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:13 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:53 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:40 am

The US, of course. Sweden (which, by the way, has dropped its charges against Assange) and the UK just follow orders...
...as though the UK did not have an independent judiciary.

Show trials are for the likes of the Soviet Union.
Independent of what? Judges in the UK are part of the oligarchy. In political issues they do not follow the rules of law, they follow the oligarchy's interests.
That comes from commie brainwashing which is not true. You really are a Cold War relic Sertorio.
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: Britain leaves the EU!

Post by Sertorio » Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:21 am

cassowary wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:44 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:13 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:53 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:40 am

The US, of course. Sweden (which, by the way, has dropped its charges against Assange) and the UK just follow orders...
...as though the UK did not have an independent judiciary.

Show trials are for the likes of the Soviet Union.
Independent of what? Judges in the UK are part of the oligarchy. In political issues they do not follow the rules of law, they follow the oligarchy's interests.
That comes from commie brainwashing which is not true. You really are a Cold War relic Sertorio.
"I" am a cold war relic???!!!... Who keeps punching at Putin as if Russia was the Soviet Union???...

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cassowary
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Re: Britain leaves the EU!

Post by cassowary » Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:41 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:21 am
cassowary wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:44 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:13 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:53 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:40 am

The US, of course. Sweden (which, by the way, has dropped its charges against Assange) and the UK just follow orders...
...as though the UK did not have an independent judiciary.

Show trials are for the likes of the Soviet Union.
Independent of what? Judges in the UK are part of the oligarchy. In political issues they do not follow the rules of law, they follow the oligarchy's interests.
That comes from commie brainwashing which is not true. You really are a Cold War relic Sertorio.
"I" am a cold war relic???!!!... Who keeps punching at Putin as if Russia was the Soviet Union???...
Putin is not a commie. But he deserves criticism because of his bad behavior.
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Location: Singapore

Re: Britain leaves the EU!

Post by neverfail » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:54 am

cassowary wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:41 am

Putin is not a commie. But he deserves criticism because of his bad behavior.
Putin began his career in the KGB. You would in those days not have been allowed to enlist in their KGB unless the powers-that-be were certain of your loyalty - and that meant membership in the Communist (which in the USSR you joined by invitation - not because you privately had the urge to do so).

However, by the time Putin joined as a young apparatchik the Communist Party had become nothing more than a ladder of privilege through which ambitious careerists could climb their way into positions of power. Putin was a member of that generation who were careerist rather than Marxist in orientation.

Whatever guise the Russian State manifests in it seems almost incumbent on the shoulders of their political leadership that they have to pursue policies that people in The West neither understand nor approve of.

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Sertorio
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Re: Britain leaves the EU!

Post by Sertorio » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:59 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:54 am

Whatever guise the Russian State manifests in it seems almost incumbent on the shoulders of their political leadership that they have to pursue policies that people in The West neither understand nor approve of.
I do understand it, but it isn't my business to approve or disapprove of it. That's exclusively the Russian people's business. What I know is that Russia is a peaceful society with a growing level of prosperity, with a high level of education and science, and good health care. Presumably that's good enough for most Russians.

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Sertorio
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Re: Britain leaves the EU!

Post by Sertorio » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:41 am

Milo wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:37 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:56 pm
Milo wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:11 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:48 pm
Milo wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:24 am
Oft overlooked in this discussion is the EU penchant for the more overbearing system of civil law, as opposed to the common law of the UK. I feel the UK will have more individual liberty out from under the EU's attempts to impose their inquisitional system.
I wonder whether Julian Assange would think so...
He'd have to stop thinking about himself first and that's not likely.
Why should he stop thinking about himself first, when he is the victim of a system whose purpose is to destroy him?...
Which one is that, the Swedish, the UK or the US?
Maybe this will answer you:
Sputnik: The Council of Europe finally released a declaration calling for Assange's release and denouncing extradition requests to the United States. What kind of pressure do you think this will place on the UK government? Why is it so significant?

Kristinn Hrafnsson: Mr Tariq Ali spoke about the breakdown in international norms. International norms are just politics if people decide not to abide by them, and they lose their meaning.

We've been seeing a breakdown in international law through outrageous actions such as the Jamal Khashoggi killings and the targeted assassination of a high-level official in Iran, Qasem Soleimani, via a drone attack. These were executions.

So we're starting to see things get worse and we've seen before, in Assange's case, that the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detention (UN-WGAD), a really important human rights body in Geneva, concluded that Julian had been arbitrarily detained and ordered the UK and Sweden to change his situation whilst he was in the Ecuadorian embassy in Knightsbridge, but he was totally ignored.

It astonishes me, because what does it imply? It means that the next time the UN-WGAD, as before, focuses on a political prisoner in a third-world or developing country, where the rule of law is deemed to be lesser than our 'perfect' world, of course, no one is going to listen. They will say, "why should we abide by international norms when the UK and Sweden refuse to do so"?

The same applies to the findings of [UN Special Rapporteur on Torture] Nils Melzer, who said that international law was shunned, didn't register, and didn't have any meaning in the UK courts, where a judge said that when [Assange] was sentenced to a ridiculously harsh sentence for breaching bail conditions, which is normally settled with a fine or conditional sentencing.

So, we're seeing a breakdown in international law, and I'm unsure what kind of pressure the Council of Europe can impose, but every bit counts, and it was really heartening to see the Council pass this resolution on press freedom and directly address Julian's situation to recognise how important it was.

It's a good thing, and it all adds up. It's the dripping water that hollows the stone. The more support we get, the more people we get on the streets, the more resolutions will be passed from international bodies and organisations.

It all counts, and shows that people will protest it, recognising that the overreach has gone too far. Let's hope that that increases in the weeks up to the hearing, and let's hope it leads to the freeing of Julian Assange.

https://sputniknews.com/interviews/2020 ... hrafnsson/
Do you keep thinking that the British legal system is superior to the European one?

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Milo
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Re: Britain leaves the EU!

Post by Milo » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:08 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:41 am
Milo wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:37 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:56 pm
Milo wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:11 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:48 pm
Milo wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:24 am
Oft overlooked in this discussion is the EU penchant for the more overbearing system of civil law, as opposed to the common law of the UK. I feel the UK will have more individual liberty out from under the EU's attempts to impose their inquisitional system.
I wonder whether Julian Assange would think so...
He'd have to stop thinking about himself first and that's not likely.
Why should he stop thinking about himself first, when he is the victim of a system whose purpose is to destroy him?...
Which one is that, the Swedish, the UK or the US?
Maybe this will answer you:
Sputnik: The Council of Europe finally released a declaration calling for Assange's release and denouncing extradition requests to the United States. What kind of pressure do you think this will place on the UK government? Why is it so significant?

Kristinn Hrafnsson: Mr Tariq Ali spoke about the breakdown in international norms. International norms are just politics if people decide not to abide by them, and they lose their meaning.

We've been seeing a breakdown in international law through outrageous actions such as the Jamal Khashoggi killings and the targeted assassination of a high-level official in Iran, Qasem Soleimani, via a drone attack. These were executions.

So we're starting to see things get worse and we've seen before, in Assange's case, that the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detention (UN-WGAD), a really important human rights body in Geneva, concluded that Julian had been arbitrarily detained and ordered the UK and Sweden to change his situation whilst he was in the Ecuadorian embassy in Knightsbridge, but he was totally ignored.

It astonishes me, because what does it imply? It means that the next time the UN-WGAD, as before, focuses on a political prisoner in a third-world or developing country, where the rule of law is deemed to be lesser than our 'perfect' world, of course, no one is going to listen. They will say, "why should we abide by international norms when the UK and Sweden refuse to do so"?

The same applies to the findings of [UN Special Rapporteur on Torture] Nils Melzer, who said that international law was shunned, didn't register, and didn't have any meaning in the UK courts, where a judge said that when [Assange] was sentenced to a ridiculously harsh sentence for breaching bail conditions, which is normally settled with a fine or conditional sentencing.

So, we're seeing a breakdown in international law, and I'm unsure what kind of pressure the Council of Europe can impose, but every bit counts, and it was really heartening to see the Council pass this resolution on press freedom and directly address Julian's situation to recognise how important it was.

It's a good thing, and it all adds up. It's the dripping water that hollows the stone. The more support we get, the more people we get on the streets, the more resolutions will be passed from international bodies and organisations.

It all counts, and shows that people will protest it, recognising that the overreach has gone too far. Let's hope that that increases in the weeks up to the hearing, and let's hope it leads to the freeing of Julian Assange.

https://sputniknews.com/interviews/2020 ... hrafnsson/
Do you keep thinking that the British legal system is superior to the European one?
How is The Council of Europe, "Not to be confused with European Council or Council of the European Union. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe", not taking legal action anything to do with any legal system?

neverfail
Posts: 4781
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Location: Singapore

Re: Britain leaves the EU!

Post by neverfail » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:59 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:59 am
neverfail wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:54 am

Whatever guise the Russian State manifests in it seems almost incumbent on the shoulders of their political leadership that they have to pursue policies that people in The West neither understand nor approve of.
I do understand it, but it isn't my business to approve or disapprove of it. That's exclusively the Russian people's business.
No Sertorio, not "exclusively". It is also I would suggest the business of people in neighboring countries such as Ukraine that Russian policies do harm to.

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Milo
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Re: Britain leaves the EU!

Post by Milo » Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:56 am

Hmmm, supposedly the UK has turned up its nose at all this vast trade!
BRUSSELS — Where will the money come from? This is the contentious question that the EU needs to answer every seven years — and this time around, the issue is even more complicated.

The U.K., which has been one of the EU’s key contributors, left the bloc on January 31. Over the last few years its net contribution to the EU has been around £7.8 billion per year and, as such, the U.K.’s departure could leave the group with a shortfall of around £55 billion ($71.3 billion) over the next seven years.

The remaining 27 EU countries are now scratching their heads and trying to find ways to make up the difference. In an emergency meeting Thursday, the bloc’s leaders will seek to agree on its next budget, but there are expected to be long and arduous fights between those paying the highest amounts to the EU and those receiving the most money from it.
https://stocksnewsfeed.com/cnbc/the-eus ... -get-real/

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Sertorio
Posts: 3266
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Re: Britain leaves the EU!

Post by Sertorio » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:01 am

Milo wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:56 am
Hmmm, supposedly the UK has turned up its nose at all this vast trade!
BRUSSELS — Where will the money come from? This is the contentious question that the EU needs to answer every seven years — and this time around, the issue is even more complicated.

The U.K., which has been one of the EU’s key contributors, left the bloc on January 31. Over the last few years its net contribution to the EU has been around £7.8 billion per year and, as such, the U.K.’s departure could leave the group with a shortfall of around £55 billion ($71.3 billion) over the next seven years.

The remaining 27 EU countries are now scratching their heads and trying to find ways to make up the difference. In an emergency meeting Thursday, the bloc’s leaders will seek to agree on its next budget, but there are expected to be long and arduous fights between those paying the highest amounts to the EU and those receiving the most money from it.
https://stocksnewsfeed.com/cnbc/the-eus ... -get-real/
Now that Britain is gone, chances are that the European budget can go beyond the present ridiculous 1% of GDP... Will net contributing countries fight to keep it as low as possible? Yes, but it will go up anyway...

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