An Iranian missile shot down Ukrainian jet, Trudeau says

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Sertorio
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Re: An Iranian missile shot down Ukrainian jet, Trudeau says

Post by Sertorio » Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:49 am

Doc wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:33 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:19 am
Milo wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:10 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:42 am
Milo wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:12 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:23 am


It wasn't all that obvious, to start with. And Iran is not the only country guilty of shooting down civilian airplanes by mistake. Without the nervousness existing in the region on account of illegal attacks by several players - including the US and Israel - maybe the Iranian who pulled the trigger wouldn't have done so. But full responsibility has now been taken by Iran, so the incident may be closed.
No, obviously it will not.
What's missing?...
The results of the investigation, the investigation you seemed so in favour of.
Since Iran has already taken responsibility, the only thing missing is the name of the Iranian soldier who pulled the trigger and why. It doesn't seem very relevant. But maybe you think that an undercover Russian agent actually did the shooting...
The responsible party(s) is whoever allowed the airliner to take off and fly into an air defense zone that was on red alert. Iran says the shot down was unintentional and that is greatly likely the case. But given the initial lack of candor by the Iranian government there is some possibility that this was intentional. Though I would say unlikely. Certainly more likely that an airliner crashing because of technical issues with the plane, just a few hours after a missile strike.
Intentional? An airplane with almost 70 Iranians on board? Iran has already admitted its guilt and will pay compensation. What else can one expect from them? The matter is closed, leave it alone.

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cassowary
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Re: An Iranian missile shot down Ukrainian jet, Trudeau says

Post by cassowary » Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:59 pm

Sertorio is right. It was a tragic accident. No one is to blame because it was unintentional.
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Re: An Iranian missile shot down Ukrainian jet, Trudeau says

Post by neverfail » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:10 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:49 am
Intentional? An airplane with almost 70 Iranians on board? Iran has already admitted its guilt and will pay compensation. What else can one expect from them? The matter is closed, leave it alone.
That Vladimir Putin should be so honest and honourable to likewise admit liability and pay compensation for the shooting down of that Malaysia Airways passenger jet back in 2014.

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Milo
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Re: An Iranian missile shot down Ukrainian jet, Trudeau says

Post by Milo » Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:16 pm

I wonder why Sertorio is so adamant about leaving this alone...
Protests have erupted in Iran against the Ayatollah Khamenei regime as members of the public express outrage over the country’s admitted downing of an Ukrainian jetliner carrying 176 people, many of them Iranians.
Protests Erupted Outside Amirkabir University as People Chanted ‘Death to the Liars’ & Demanded the Resignation of Ayatollah Khamenei
The Abdorrahman Boroumand Center wrote, “Iranians are calling for mass mourning rallies tomorrow, Sunday in every Iranian city after authorities admitted to shooting down a plane of 176 people, mostly Iranian.”

The center shared the following video and wrote, “Here they confront security forces coming to disperse protest of grieving students. ‘Without honor,’ they chant.” Videos showed police in riot gear.
Hadi Ghaemi wrote: “Deeply disturbed by videos showing people at Amirkabir University in Tehran being beaten and tear-gassed. Their chants are against the state’s incompetence and cruelty. Iranians have constituonal (sic) right to peaceful protest without threat of state violence.”

Videos emerged that appeared to show tear gas being used.
https://heavy.com/news/2020/01/iran-pro ... t-now/amp/

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cassowary
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Demonstrators in Iran

Post by cassowary » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:52 pm

The Imp :D

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Doc
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Re: An Iranian missile shot down Ukrainian jet, Trudeau says

Post by Doc » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:14 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:49 am
Doc wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:33 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:19 am
Milo wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:10 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:42 am
Milo wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:12 am


No, obviously it will not.
What's missing?...
The results of the investigation, the investigation you seemed so in favour of.
Since Iran has already taken responsibility, the only thing missing is the name of the Iranian soldier who pulled the trigger and why. It doesn't seem very relevant. But maybe you think that an undercover Russian agent actually did the shooting...
The responsible party(s) is whoever allowed the airliner to take off and fly into an air defense zone that was on red alert. Iran says the shot down was unintentional and that is greatly likely the case. But given the initial lack of candor by the Iranian government there is some possibility that this was intentional. Though I would say unlikely. Certainly more likely that an airliner crashing because of technical issues with the plane, just a few hours after a missile strike.
Intentional? An airplane with almost 70 Iranians on board? Iran has already admitted its guilt and will pay compensation. What else can one expect from them? The matter is closed, leave it alone.
It had more Iranians than that Most of the Canadians onboard had dual Iranian citizenship. But I did say it was most likely unintentional.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: Demonstrators in Iran

Post by neverfail » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:14 pm

Why are they protesting? Is it because their government turned honest and owned up to the accidental shooting down of the jetliner - thereby causing all Iranians to feel collectively embarrassed; a corporate loss of face?

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Milo
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Re: Demonstrators in Iran

Post by Milo » Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:16 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:14 pm
Why are they protesting? Is it because their government turned honest and owned up to the accidental shooting down of the jetliner - thereby causing all Iranians to feel collectively embarrassed; a corporate loss of face?
That and their government lied to them about it. Not just some equivocation, that came later, but indignant and absolute denial.

There's also evidence that they made a rather shoddy effort to cover it up. So they are not only dishonest but rather bad at it!

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cassowary
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Re: Demonstrators in Iran

Post by cassowary » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:39 am

Milo wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:16 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:14 pm
Why are they protesting? Is it because their government turned honest and owned up to the accidental shooting down of the jetliner - thereby causing all Iranians to feel collectively embarrassed; a corporate loss of face?
That and their government lied to them about it. Not just some equivocation, that came later, but indignant and absolute denial.

There's also evidence that they made a rather shoddy effort to cover it up. So they are not only dishonest but rather bad at it!
My Guess is that there are two groups in the Iranian government- the hardliners and the moderates.

The hardliners wanted to lie but the moderates wanted to tell the truth. So during the tussle, the hardliners initially got what they wanted but the moderates won in the end.

Soleimani was a hardliner. His death tipped the balance towards the moderates.
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: An Iranian missile shot down Ukrainian jet, Trudeau says

Post by Sertorio » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:52 am

Milo wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:16 pm
I wonder why Sertorio is so adamant about leaving this alone...
Protests have erupted in Iran against the Ayatollah Khamenei regime as members of the public express outrage over the country’s admitted downing of an Ukrainian jetliner carrying 176 people, many of them Iranians.
Protests Erupted Outside Amirkabir University as People Chanted ‘Death to the Liars’ & Demanded the Resignation of Ayatollah Khamenei
The Abdorrahman Boroumand Center wrote, “Iranians are calling for mass mourning rallies tomorrow, Sunday in every Iranian city after authorities admitted to shooting down a plane of 176 people, mostly Iranian.”

The center shared the following video and wrote, “Here they confront security forces coming to disperse protest of grieving students. ‘Without honor,’ they chant.” Videos showed police in riot gear.
Hadi Ghaemi wrote: “Deeply disturbed by videos showing people at Amirkabir University in Tehran being beaten and tear-gassed. Their chants are against the state’s incompetence and cruelty. Iranians have constituonal (sic) right to peaceful protest without threat of state violence.”

Videos emerged that appeared to show tear gas being used.
https://heavy.com/news/2020/01/iran-pro ... t-now/amp/
I'm saying we should leave it alone. I'm not saying Iranians should...

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