An Iranian missile shot down Ukrainian jet, Trudeau says

Discussion of current events
User avatar
lzzrdgrrl
Posts: 572
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:18 pm
Location: Okie Doke

Re: An Iranian missile shot down Ukrainian jet, Trudeau says

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:15 pm

Jet was shot down because of some Canadians. Which is next door to USA, which it's not but close enough.......something, something.......<<spaz fit from the High Chair of State>>......;>........
I have a certain notoriety among the lesser gods........

neverfail
Posts: 4555
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re:A malfunctioning Iran is more dangerous than a ruthless, competent Iran

Post by neverfail » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:14 pm

A ruthless and competent Iran, with its vast arsenal of missiles, unforgiving ideology and network of murderous proxies across the Middle East, is a danger to its neighbours and the wider world. But as the West and the thousands of people who have taken to the streets in recent days to protest against the regime may be about to discover, a ruthless but malfunctioning Iran could be more dangerous still......

....But the apparent malfunctioning of the regime makes a diplomatic solution to the latest crisis positively naive. While you might assume that the Iranians would have an interest in lowering geopolitical tensions in such a context, these same tensions are one of the few things holding the regime together, justifying a hardline reaction to any dissent. Moreover, Trump tweeting his solidarity will not address the fears of those in Tehran who see all protesters as cats' paws of the Great Satan.

For a long time, many in the West have persisted in seeing the Iranian regime as a clash between "good" moderates and "bad" hardliners. That was never true. They always had more in common with each other than with the West. And their constant jostling for position makes all the components of the Iranian regime inherently untrustworthy and unstable. Until Iran changes fundamentally, therefore, unreliable and irresponsible actions can be expected. Dealing with the Islamic Republic's realities means that making a deal that can stick is well-nigh impossible.

https://www.watoday.com.au/world/middle ... 53qxm.html

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 3124
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Re:A malfunctioning Iran is more dangerous than a ruthless, competent Iran

Post by Sertorio » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:11 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:14 pm
A ruthless and competent Iran, with its vast arsenal of missiles, unforgiving ideology and network of murderous proxies across the Middle East, is a danger to its neighbours and the wider world. But as the West and the thousands of people who have taken to the streets in recent days to protest against the regime may be about to discover, a ruthless but malfunctioning Iran could be more dangerous still......

....But the apparent malfunctioning of the regime makes a diplomatic solution to the latest crisis positively naive. While you might assume that the Iranians would have an interest in lowering geopolitical tensions in such a context, these same tensions are one of the few things holding the regime together, justifying a hardline reaction to any dissent. Moreover, Trump tweeting his solidarity will not address the fears of those in Tehran who see all protesters as cats' paws of the Great Satan.

For a long time, many in the West have persisted in seeing the Iranian regime as a clash between "good" moderates and "bad" hardliners. That was never true. They always had more in common with each other than with the West. And their constant jostling for position makes all the components of the Iranian regime inherently untrustworthy and unstable. Until Iran changes fundamentally, therefore, unreliable and irresponsible actions can be expected. Dealing with the Islamic Republic's realities means that making a deal that can stick is well-nigh impossible.

https://www.watoday.com.au/world/middle ... 53qxm.html
This is nonsense. Left alone Iran does not threaten anybody. Threats at the address of Israel are purely retorical, particularly as Israel has the means to obliterate Iran. The evil Iran is a fabrication of the US which needs it in order to justify its presence in the ME. Iran has no territorial ambitions whatsoever and is the ME country which most can benefit from peace in the region. But the anti-Iran propaganda is so strong that even you, Neverfail, fall for it.

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 3749
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: Re:A malfunctioning Iran is more dangerous than a ruthless, competent Iran

Post by Doc » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:54 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:11 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:14 pm
A ruthless and competent Iran, with its vast arsenal of missiles, unforgiving ideology and network of murderous proxies across the Middle East, is a danger to its neighbours and the wider world. But as the West and the thousands of people who have taken to the streets in recent days to protest against the regime may be about to discover, a ruthless but malfunctioning Iran could be more dangerous still......

....But the apparent malfunctioning of the regime makes a diplomatic solution to the latest crisis positively naive. While you might assume that the Iranians would have an interest in lowering geopolitical tensions in such a context, these same tensions are one of the few things holding the regime together, justifying a hardline reaction to any dissent. Moreover, Trump tweeting his solidarity will not address the fears of those in Tehran who see all protesters as cats' paws of the Great Satan.

For a long time, many in the West have persisted in seeing the Iranian regime as a clash between "good" moderates and "bad" hardliners. That was never true. They always had more in common with each other than with the West. And their constant jostling for position makes all the components of the Iranian regime inherently untrustworthy and unstable. Until Iran changes fundamentally, therefore, unreliable and irresponsible actions can be expected. Dealing with the Islamic Republic's realities means that making a deal that can stick is well-nigh impossible.

https://www.watoday.com.au/world/middle ... 53qxm.html
This is nonsense. Left alone Iran does not threaten anybody. Threats at the address of Israel are purely retorical, particularly as Israel has the means to obliterate Iran. The evil Iran is a fabrication of the US which needs it in order to justify its presence in the ME. Iran has no territorial ambitions whatsoever and is the ME country which most can benefit from peace in the region. But the anti-Iran propaganda is so strong that even you, Neverfail, fall for it.
SO if they are not a threat to anyone why do they have troops and proxies in Lebanon Syria and Yemen?
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
Posts: 4555
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Re:A malfunctioning Iran is more dangerous than a ruthless, competent Iran

Post by neverfail » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:58 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:11 am

This is nonsense. Left alone Iran does not threaten anybody. Threats at the address of Israel are purely retorical, particularly as Israel has the means to obliterate Iran. The evil Iran is a fabrication of the US which needs it in order to justify its presence in the ME. Iran has no territorial ambitions whatsoever and is the ME country which most can benefit from peace in the region. But the anti-Iran propaganda is so strong that even you, Neverfail, fall for it.
Did I say that I agree with the content of the article Sertorio? I merely published that abbreviated version of it for further discussion by this website's contributors. Thanks for yours by the way.

neverfail
Posts: 4555
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Re:A malfunctioning Iran is more dangerous than a ruthless, competent Iran

Post by neverfail » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:01 pm

Doc wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:54 am

SO if they are not a threat to anyone why do they have troops and proxies in Lebanon Syria and Yemen?
As a strategic buffer to neuter their enemies? The same reason that the US kept troops in places like Western Europe and Japan throughout the Cold War (and employed proxies in Afghanistan to fight the Soviet Union during the 1980's).

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 3749
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: Re:A malfunctioning Iran is more dangerous than a ruthless, competent Iran

Post by Doc » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:22 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:01 pm
Doc wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:54 am

SO if they are not a threat to anyone why do they have troops and proxies in Lebanon Syria and Yemen?
As a strategic buffer to neuter their enemies? The same reason that the US kept troops in places like Western Europe and Japan throughout the Cold War (and employed proxies in Afghanistan to fight the Soviet Union during the 1980's).
No it is meant to fight against their coreligionists Sunnis and to control the oil in the Middle East and gain power over the world at large.

The Mullahs are corrupt. They don't care about the Iranians people beyond what the Iranian people can do for them and against them if given the chance
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

User avatar
Milo
Posts: 2283
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: An Iranian missile shot down Ukrainian jet, Trudeau says

Post by Milo » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:36 pm

There does seem to be something different about Iranian unrest this time. Many famous Iranians have had enough of the regime and are burning their bridges by publicly saying so.
Kimia Alizadeh: A guide to Iran's defecting athletes

Kimia Alizadeh

Alizadeh felt her success was exploited for propaganda reasons

The announcement by Iran's only female Olympic medallist, Kimia Alizadeh, that she will defect is the latest in a series of high-profile changes of nationality from the country's top athletes.

The defections have been for a variety of reasons and across many different sports. Here are some of the most significant.

Kimia Alizadeh

Alizadeh made history when she competed in taekwondo at the Rio Olympics in 2016.

Aged only 18, she beat Sweden's Nikita Glasnovic 5-1 in the bout for the bronze in the -57kg category. It made her the first Iranian woman to win an Olympic medal.

But in the wake of that success, she felt the country's authorities were using her success as a propaganda tool.

Now 21, she disappeared last week, with rumours circulating she was seeking to settle in the Netherlands.

Though she has not confirmed where she is, she has announced in an Instagram post that she left Iran because she did not want to be part of "hypocrisy, lies, injustice and flattery".

"I wore whatever they told me and repeated whatever they ordered. Every sentence they ordered I repeated. None of us matter for them, we are just tools," she wrote.

She has described herself as "one of the millions of oppressed women in Iran".

Shohreh Bayat, Mitra Hejazipour and Alireza Firouzja

Shohreh Bayat

Images of Shohreh Bayat officiating without a hijab caused shockwaves in Iran

As significant as Alizardeh's defection is, it is not even the first major Iranian sporting defection of 2020 - less than two weeks into the year.

Two leading figures in Iranian chess, Shohreh Bayat and Mitra Hejazipour, have both been expelled for removing their hijab in competitions outside of the country. This action is considered defiance of Iran's compulsory Islamic dress code.

Bayat is an international chess referee - Asia's only Grade-A arbiter at that - and previously was the first woman to be general secretary of a sports federation in Iran. She said she would not be returning to Iran after photos were published showing her not wearing the compulsory headscarf during Shanghai Women's World Championship 2020 games.

When the photographs first emerged, Bayat's father said her headscarf had fallen accidentally. But pictures later showed her without it at other games. Nigel Short, the vice-president of the International Chess Federation (Fide), posted one of the photos on Twitter saying Bayat is "a great ambassador for her country", and Bayat retweeted it.

Her father now says she is "worried about going on with her activities in Iran" and is seeking to continue in another country.

Meanwhile on 2 January, the Iran Chess Federation expelled veteran female chess grandmaster Mitra Hejazipour for removing her scarf during the World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championship in Moscow.

Hejazipour, who said she will now compete in a private capacity and live in France, was told she "has no place in the Islamic Republic's national team any more".

Meanwhile at the end of 2019, the world number two junior player, Alireza Firouzja, competed under a Fide flag instead of the Iranian one.

Alireza Karimi-Machiani

Alireza Karimi-Machiani defeats Uzbekistan's Magomed Ibragimov

Karimi-Machiani has since returned to competition for Iran after his ban ended

For political reasons, Iran has had a blanket ban on any athletes competing against Israeli opposition; Iran does not recognise the state of Israel.

But because this ban violates the rules of most international sporting federations, it has put several athletes in a difficult situation in competitions - in particular sports at which both Iran and Israel have talent, such as wrestling and judo.

For obvious reasons, competition rules generally insist that the athletes themselves cannot select who they compete against.

So competitors, under great pressure from Iranian authorities, have been forced to deliberately lose bouts if winning them would result in facing an Israeli.

This was the case for example with wrestler Alireza Karimi-Machiani, who was dominating against Russian Alikhan Zhabrailov at the U23 World Senior Wrestling Championship in 2017.

Mid-bout, news came through to Karimi-Machiani's coach Hamidreza Jamshidi that another bout had finished and an Israeli would face Karimi-Machiani if he won.

So the coach shouted to Karimi-Machiani that he had to lose.

For this, Karimi-Machiani was banned for six months and Jamshidi for two years.

This prompted the head of Iran's wrestling federation to resign, saying "Forcing an athlete to accept defeat or run around all night looking for a doctor's note is not right."

Saeid Mollaei

Khasan Khalmurzaev fights Saeid Mollaei

Mollaei (right) was ordered to lose against Khalmurzaev - but refused

Saeid Mollaei was the 2018 Judo world champion in the -81kg category. But when defending his title in Tokyo in 2019, he was told to withdraw from his match against Russia's Olympic champion Khasan Khalmurzaev.

It was for familiar reasons - to avoid the prospect of facing an Israeli, in this case Sagi Muki.

But Mollaei refused.

He fought on, eventually losing to Belgium's Matthias Casse in the semi-final (Muki would go on to beat Casse and become the new champion).

Mollaei expressed fears for his and his family's safety after his actions.

"I am a fighter," he said at the time. "I want to compete wherever I can. I live in a country whose law does not permit me to. We have no choice; all athletes must comply with it.

"Even if the authorities of my country told me that I can go back without any problems, I am afraid. I am afraid of what might happen to my family and to myself."

Rather than punish Mollaei - who did not return to Iran, and instead moved to Europe - the International Judo Federation banned Iran from all of its competitions.

The ban remains in place.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/taekwondo/51090585

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 3749
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: An Iranian missile shot down Ukrainian jet, Trudeau says

Post by Doc » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:17 am

Milo wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:36 pm
There does seem to be something different about Iranian unrest this time. Many famous Iranians have had enough of the regime and are burning their bridges by publicly saying so.
Kimia Alizadeh: A guide to Iran's defecting athletes

Kimia Alizadeh

Alizadeh felt her success was exploited for propaganda reasons

The announcement by Iran's only female Olympic medallist, Kimia Alizadeh, that she will defect is the latest in a series of high-profile changes of nationality from the country's top athletes.

The defections have been for a variety of reasons and across many different sports. Here are some of the most significant.

Kimia Alizadeh

Alizadeh made history when she competed in taekwondo at the Rio Olympics in 2016.

Aged only 18, she beat Sweden's Nikita Glasnovic 5-1 in the bout for the bronze in the -57kg category. It made her the first Iranian woman to win an Olympic medal.

But in the wake of that success, she felt the country's authorities were using her success as a propaganda tool.

Now 21, she disappeared last week, with rumours circulating she was seeking to settle in the Netherlands.

Though she has not confirmed where she is, she has announced in an Instagram post that she left Iran because she did not want to be part of "hypocrisy, lies, injustice and flattery".

"I wore whatever they told me and repeated whatever they ordered. Every sentence they ordered I repeated. None of us matter for them, we are just tools," she wrote.

She has described herself as "one of the millions of oppressed women in Iran".

Shohreh Bayat, Mitra Hejazipour and Alireza Firouzja

Shohreh Bayat

Images of Shohreh Bayat officiating without a hijab caused shockwaves in Iran

As significant as Alizardeh's defection is, it is not even the first major Iranian sporting defection of 2020 - less than two weeks into the year.

Two leading figures in Iranian chess, Shohreh Bayat and Mitra Hejazipour, have both been expelled for removing their hijab in competitions outside of the country. This action is considered defiance of Iran's compulsory Islamic dress code.

Bayat is an international chess referee - Asia's only Grade-A arbiter at that - and previously was the first woman to be general secretary of a sports federation in Iran. She said she would not be returning to Iran after photos were published showing her not wearing the compulsory headscarf during Shanghai Women's World Championship 2020 games.

When the photographs first emerged, Bayat's father said her headscarf had fallen accidentally. But pictures later showed her without it at other games. Nigel Short, the vice-president of the International Chess Federation (Fide), posted one of the photos on Twitter saying Bayat is "a great ambassador for her country", and Bayat retweeted it.

Her father now says she is "worried about going on with her activities in Iran" and is seeking to continue in another country.

Meanwhile on 2 January, the Iran Chess Federation expelled veteran female chess grandmaster Mitra Hejazipour for removing her scarf during the World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championship in Moscow.

Hejazipour, who said she will now compete in a private capacity and live in France, was told she "has no place in the Islamic Republic's national team any more".

Meanwhile at the end of 2019, the world number two junior player, Alireza Firouzja, competed under a Fide flag instead of the Iranian one.

Alireza Karimi-Machiani

Alireza Karimi-Machiani defeats Uzbekistan's Magomed Ibragimov

Karimi-Machiani has since returned to competition for Iran after his ban ended

For political reasons, Iran has had a blanket ban on any athletes competing against Israeli opposition; Iran does not recognise the state of Israel.

But because this ban violates the rules of most international sporting federations, it has put several athletes in a difficult situation in competitions - in particular sports at which both Iran and Israel have talent, such as wrestling and judo.

For obvious reasons, competition rules generally insist that the athletes themselves cannot select who they compete against.

So competitors, under great pressure from Iranian authorities, have been forced to deliberately lose bouts if winning them would result in facing an Israeli.

This was the case for example with wrestler Alireza Karimi-Machiani, who was dominating against Russian Alikhan Zhabrailov at the U23 World Senior Wrestling Championship in 2017.

Mid-bout, news came through to Karimi-Machiani's coach Hamidreza Jamshidi that another bout had finished and an Israeli would face Karimi-Machiani if he won.

So the coach shouted to Karimi-Machiani that he had to lose.

For this, Karimi-Machiani was banned for six months and Jamshidi for two years.

This prompted the head of Iran's wrestling federation to resign, saying "Forcing an athlete to accept defeat or run around all night looking for a doctor's note is not right."

Saeid Mollaei

Khasan Khalmurzaev fights Saeid Mollaei

Mollaei (right) was ordered to lose against Khalmurzaev - but refused

Saeid Mollaei was the 2018 Judo world champion in the -81kg category. But when defending his title in Tokyo in 2019, he was told to withdraw from his match against Russia's Olympic champion Khasan Khalmurzaev.

It was for familiar reasons - to avoid the prospect of facing an Israeli, in this case Sagi Muki.

But Mollaei refused.

He fought on, eventually losing to Belgium's Matthias Casse in the semi-final (Muki would go on to beat Casse and become the new champion).

Mollaei expressed fears for his and his family's safety after his actions.

"I am a fighter," he said at the time. "I want to compete wherever I can. I live in a country whose law does not permit me to. We have no choice; all athletes must comply with it.

"Even if the authorities of my country told me that I can go back without any problems, I am afraid. I am afraid of what might happen to my family and to myself."

Rather than punish Mollaei - who did not return to Iran, and instead moved to Europe - the International Judo Federation banned Iran from all of its competitions.

The ban remains in place.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/taekwondo/51090585
Yeah something in the wind this time around. It may amount to nothing but it is there. At least for now.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 3124
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: An Iranian missile shot down Ukrainian jet, Trudeau says

Post by Sertorio » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:10 am

Milo wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:36 pm
There does seem to be something different about Iranian unrest this time. Many famous Iranians have had enough of the regime and are burning their bridges by publicly saying so.
Keep dreaming... I'm sure Iranians will some day get rid of their theocracy, but that day will be delayed as long as the US tries to subdue Iran. Nothing like an external threat to unify a people around their leaders, never mind how bad those leaders are.

Post Reply