Australian Bushfires

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neverfail
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Re: the market decides - how solar makes a difference.

Post by neverfail » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:59 pm

Doc wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:27 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:58 pm

I don't see why rooftop solar panels should be so expensive in the United States (unless as a consequence of Trump having slapped some of his legendary high tariffs on imported solar panels from China). ;)
Government tax breaks have traditionally driven sales of solar systems in the US. They have gotten cheaper as the technology has advanced. According to Advanced Materials the way to get them really cheap is to build a $100 billion dollar semiconductor fab. No one wants to risk that much money on a technology that might be made obsolete over night.
That explains why they are not being mass produced in the United States but still leaves the option of using the imported product.

Demand out here is not tax break driven as much as by the cost of the alternatives. With cheaper conventional energy available in the United States you probably do not have such a strong incentive to use solar panels.

Demand for solar panels is booming out here but with a population of but 25 million our market lacks the "critical mass size" needed to make such a business viable. The same reason why we do not make passenger jet aircraft either. So our only option is to buy them from overseas countries that can make them more cost-effectively than we could hope to and sell something of our own profitably abroad in order to raise the foreign exchange needed to pay for the imported product.

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cassowary
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Re: the market decides - how solar makes a difference.

Post by cassowary » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:49 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:20 pm
Friends of my wife installed solar panels on their roof less than a year ago. She told me that their electric power bill for the most recent quarter (year) was just one dollar.

(That was not even a US dollar but one Australian dollar - which fetches just US$0.79 at the current exchange rate.)

By contrast, we who do not have solar panels were served a quarterly bill of several hundred dollars - and we are not profligate users of electric power.

How it works is that in daytime when the solar cells are working and household use of electric power is low, the grid draws in that surplus energy from rooftop panels and the energy supply firm pays the householder for that auxiliary supply. Of course they do not pay in cash but in the form of credits.

When nighttime comes and the solar panels are dormant the same householders then draw power from the grid paying for it with those accumulated credits from daytime.

In the case of my wife's friends it would appear that their daytime contributions of power to the grid matched or possibly exceeded their draw-down of power from the grid during nighttime.

That $1 charge was likely a silly administrative cost charged by the energy company for doing the paperwork involved.
I have solar panels too and it works the same as in Australia. We sell power to the company in the daytime and draw from them at night. I estimated that it will take me 30 years to get back my money.
The Imp :D

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Doc
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Re: the market decides - how solar makes a difference.

Post by Doc » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:03 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:59 pm
Doc wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:27 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:58 pm

I don't see why rooftop solar panels should be so expensive in the United States (unless as a consequence of Trump having slapped some of his legendary high tariffs on imported solar panels from China). ;)
Government tax breaks have traditionally driven sales of solar systems in the US. They have gotten cheaper as the technology has advanced. According to Advanced Materials the way to get them really cheap is to build a $100 billion dollar semiconductor fab. No one wants to risk that much money on a technology that might be made obsolete over night.
That explains why they are not being mass produced in the United States but still leaves the option of using the imported product.

Demand out here is not tax break driven as much as by the cost of the alternatives. With cheaper conventional energy available in the United States you probably do not have such a strong incentive to use solar panels.

Demand for solar panels is booming out here but with a population of but 25 million our market lacks the "critical mass size" needed to make such a business viable. The same reason why we do not make passenger jet aircraft either. So our only option is to buy them from overseas countries that can make them more cost-effectively than we could hope to and sell something of our own profitably abroad in order to raise the foreign exchange needed to pay for the imported product.
I don't think there is much in the way of home solar systems manufactured in the US. Production was exported to China years ago. Also Australa gets a lot more sunshine than the US. Plus milder winters.

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: the market decides - how solar makes a difference.

Post by neverfail » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:19 am

Doc wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:03 pm

I don't think there is much in the way of home solar systems manufactured in the US. Production was exported to China years ago. Also Australa gets a lot more sunshine than the US. Plus milder winters.

That helps!

It might even be the final reason why solar electrical energy has taken off here.

neverfail
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Re: the market decides - how solar makes a difference.

Post by neverfail » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:31 pm

cassowary wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:49 pm

I have solar panels too and it works the same as in Australia. We sell power to the company in the daytime and draw from them at night. I estimated that it will take me 30 years to get back my money.
Why is that Cass?

It seems very odd that it takes an average of only 4 years down here to pay off the investment in rooftop solar panels but 30 years up where you are.

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Doc
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Re: the market decides - how solar makes a difference.

Post by Doc » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:26 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:19 am
Doc wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:03 pm

I don't think there is much in the way of home solar systems manufactured in the US. Production was exported to China years ago. Also Australa gets a lot more sunshine than the US. Plus milder winters.

That helps!

It might even be the final reason why solar electrical energy has taken off here.
Then there is this:

https://thefreethoughtproject.com/court ... lectricity
Gov’t Revokes Off-Grid Amish Community’s Religious Rights, Forces Them to Use Electricity

Matt Agorist January 17, 2018
Spread the love

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An Amish community in Warren County has just lost a major battle against the state which is now requiring them to violate their religious beliefs and use electricity. Despite the Yoder family never causing harm to anyone by not using electricity, the government is forcing them to connect to the grid anyway.

At the heart of the Amish religion is the rejection of individualism. The Amish anti-individualist orientation is the motive for rejecting labor-saving technologies that might make one less dependent on their community. Modern innovations like electricity might spark a competition for status goods which is in direct conflict with the Amish way of life. Therefore, they reject it.

While the Amish lifestyle may seem odd to others, the fact that it causes no harm should mean that no one should be able to force them to change. Sadly, that is not the case.

The Yoder family lives entirely off-grid. This off-grid religious lifestyle includes the use of a self-composting toilet—an “old-fashioned privy”—that did not require electricity or running water.

Had the Yoder family been dumping their raw sewage into the public watershed or otherwise polluting the community in any way, requiring them to hook up to the grid would be more sensible. However, that is not the case.

The Yoder family is being required to violate their religious beliefs and go against their long-standing traditions—which have harmed no one—for the mere fact that they are in violation of a city code that requires all property owners to be tied into the grid.

For years, the Yoders have successfully fought off the sewer connection requirement. However, they will now be forced to hook up an electric grinder pump. The court ruled that the electric pump is the “least intrusive means” of connecting to the sewer system.

Judge Patricia A. McCullough voiced the dissent, arguing the Yoder’s are sincere in their religion-based shunning of electricity. “I believe (the Yoders) are being denied their rights to religious freedom,” she wrote.



The American Civil Liberties Union also weighed in on the ruling, noting their concern for the Yoder’s religious freedom as well as the unduly burden it now places on them to install the pump.

“They didn’t consider the other ways that the government could have achieved its ends,” Sara Rose, a senior staff attorney with the ACLU said.

Rose said that although this case didn’t set a precedent, it will undoubtedly be cited in future cases which may apply to Pennsylvania’s Religious Freedom Protection Act.

Unfortunately, in the so-called ‘Land of the Free’, the government can and will force you to conform or face consequences. This conformity often hits the innocent Amish communities the hardest.

As TFTP reported last year, Samuel Girod, an Amish farmer who made natural health products, was charged with conspiracy for the way he labeled his salve.

In June, Girod was sentenced to six years in prison for obstructing a federal agency and for making and selling herbal health products that were not adequately labeled as required by federal law.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: Backtracking:

Post by neverfail » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:14 pm

Doc wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:34 pm


As for CO2 levels they have been much higher in the past

Image

Back to the interesting graphs posted by you Doc.

I notice that from the mid-Devonian period until the mid-Carboniferous period of the Earth's past geologic history there occurred the biggest plunge ever in the carbon dioxide content of the atmosphere. That happens to be the very period when the world's coal beds were laid down. It appears that the swamp plants of that era were very proactive in 'cleansing' the atmosphere of its carbon content.

I notice that this was accompanied by one of the biggest single plunge in the earth's average temperature - matchinmg the one that had occurred during the previous Ordovician period when there had been no significent reduction in the CO2 content of the atmosphere.

You may be right in that the current global warming might be occurring independently of the rising level of greenohouse gases in the atmosphere.

I earnestly hope so.

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Doc
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Re: Backtracking:

Post by Doc » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:03 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:14 pm
Doc wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:34 pm


As for CO2 levels they have been much higher in the past

Image

Back to the interesting graphs posted by you Doc.

I notice that from the mid-Devonian period until the mid-Carboniferous period of the Earth's past geologic history there occurred the biggest plunge ever in the carbon dioxide content of the atmosphere. That happens to be the very period when the world's coal beds were laid down. It appears that the swamp plants of that era were very proactive in 'cleansing' the atmosphere of its carbon content.

I notice that this was accompanied by one of the biggest single plunge in the earth's average temperature - matchinmg the one that had occurred during the previous Ordovician period when there had been no significent reduction in the CO2 content of the atmosphere.

You may be right in that the current global warming might be occurring independently of the rising level of greenohouse gases in the atmosphere.

I earnestly hope so.
There are a lot of factors that influence the climate. I am actually not pro or con on man made climate change. I just think that much of the talk of it is emotional nonsense, and cynical attempts to make money off of faux crisis. In the sense that we don't actually know all that much as a species because we are short lived as individuals.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: Backtracking:

Post by neverfail » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:28 pm

Doc wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:03 pm


There are a lot of factors that influence the climate. I am actually not pro or con on man made climate change. I just think that much of the talk of it is emotional nonsense, and cynical attempts to make money off of faux crisis. In the sense that we don't actually know all that much as a species because we are short lived as individuals.
Well said; and I agree!

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lzzrdgrrl
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Re: Australian Bushfires

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:05 pm

Police Take Legal Action Against More Than 180 in Australia’s Most Populous State for Alleged Bushfire-Related Offenses
Since November 2019, a total of 183 people have been targeted by police in the state of New South Wales (NSW) for 205 fire-related offenses, according to the NSW Police Force.

NSW police said 24 were apprehended and charged with deliberately lighting bushfires. A further 53 people face legal action for allegedly failing to comply with a total fire ban, while 47 others are accused of improperly discarding lit cigarettes or matches outdoors.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/nearly-20 ... 95827.html

Yeah, yeah........kill a koala for climate change. See how THAT goes down with public sentiments.........
I have a certain notoriety among the lesser gods........

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