How did a nice place like Mexico become a failed state?

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neverfail
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How did a nice place like Mexico become a failed state?

Post by neverfail » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:09 am

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/10/artic ... led-state/

Last week marked a climatic defeat of AMLO’s hapless “security strategy”: A botched operation to capture a son of the notorious drug lord Joaquín El Chapo Guzmán, who was recently condemned to life in prison in the US, unexpectedly encountered a mighty underworld force that surfaced to defend Ovidio Guzmán López. Junior’s defenders for a full day held hostage a city of almost a million inhabitants, forcing the Mexican armed forces to retreat and release the prisoner.
:roll: Doc, I seem to recall a post you made in a past discussion in which you revealed that while in Mexico you actually witnessed a cat being chased by huge rats. For some reason the above news of an army of gangsters forcing their national army into retreat reminded me of that. :(

What a country!

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Sertorio
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Re: How did a nice place like Mexico become a failed state?

Post by Sertorio » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:24 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:09 am
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/10/artic ... led-state/

Last week marked a climatic defeat of AMLO’s hapless “security strategy”: A botched operation to capture a son of the notorious drug lord Joaquín El Chapo Guzmán, who was recently condemned to life in prison in the US, unexpectedly encountered a mighty underworld force that surfaced to defend Ovidio Guzmán López. Junior’s defenders for a full day held hostage a city of almost a million inhabitants, forcing the Mexican armed forces to retreat and release the prisoner.
:roll: Doc, I seem to recall a post you made in a past discussion in which you revealed that while in Mexico you actually witnessed a cat being chased by huge rats. For some reason the above news of an army of gangsters forcing their national army into retreat reminded me of that. :(

What a country!
Not being a pacifist, if I were President of Mexico I would mobilize the full strength of the Mexican armed forces to wipe out all drug cartels in the country, no matter what the cost.

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cassowary
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Re: How did a nice place like Mexico become a failed state?

Post by cassowary » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:37 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:24 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:09 am
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/10/artic ... led-state/

Last week marked a climatic defeat of AMLO’s hapless “security strategy”: A botched operation to capture a son of the notorious drug lord Joaquín El Chapo Guzmán, who was recently condemned to life in prison in the US, unexpectedly encountered a mighty underworld force that surfaced to defend Ovidio Guzmán López. Junior’s defenders for a full day held hostage a city of almost a million inhabitants, forcing the Mexican armed forces to retreat and release the prisoner.
:roll: Doc, I seem to recall a post you made in a past discussion in which you revealed that while in Mexico you actually witnessed a cat being chased by huge rats. For some reason the above news of an army of gangsters forcing their national army into retreat reminded me of that. :(

What a country!
Not being a pacifist, if I were President of Mexico I would mobilize the full strength of the Mexican armed forces to wipe out all drug cartels in the country, no matter what the cost.
I agree sertorio. You can't have a state within a state.
The Imp :D

Jim the Moron
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Re: How did a nice place like Mexico become a failed state?

Post by Jim the Moron » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:38 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:24 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:09 am
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/10/artic ... led-state/

Last week marked a climatic defeat of AMLO’s hapless “security strategy”: A botched operation to capture a son of the notorious drug lord Joaquín El Chapo Guzmán, who was recently condemned to life in prison in the US, unexpectedly encountered a mighty underworld force that surfaced to defend Ovidio Guzmán López. Junior’s defenders for a full day held hostage a city of almost a million inhabitants, forcing the Mexican armed forces to retreat and release the prisoner.
:roll: Doc, I seem to recall a post you made in a past discussion in which you revealed that while in Mexico you actually witnessed a cat being chased by huge rats. For some reason the above news of an army of gangsters forcing their national army into retreat reminded me of that. :(

What a country!
Not being a pacifist, if I were President of Mexico I would mobilize the full strength of the Mexican armed forces to wipe out all drug cartels in the country, no matter what the cost.
Yes. It has to be done by the military. I'm not sure if the present government has the stomach for it, though.

neverfail
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Re: How did a nice place like Mexico become a failed state?

Post by neverfail » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:05 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:38 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:24 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:09 am
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/10/artic ... led-state/

Last week marked a climatic defeat of AMLO’s hapless “security strategy”: A botched operation to capture a son of the notorious drug lord Joaquín El Chapo Guzmán, who was recently condemned to life in prison in the US, unexpectedly encountered a mighty underworld force that surfaced to defend Ovidio Guzmán López. Junior’s defenders for a full day held hostage a city of almost a million inhabitants, forcing the Mexican armed forces to retreat and release the prisoner.
:roll: Doc, I seem to recall a post you made in a past discussion in which you revealed that while in Mexico you actually witnessed a cat being chased by huge rats. For some reason the above news of an army of gangsters forcing their national army into retreat reminded me of that. :(

What a country!
Not being a pacifist, if I were President of Mexico I would mobilize the full strength of the Mexican armed forces to wipe out all drug cartels in the country, no matter what the cost.
Yes. It has to be done by the military. I'm not sure if the present government has the stomach for it, though.
I agree absolutely with both of you except for one thing: the drug cartels seem to have sidelined the government to the point where it has become well nigh irrelevant. Anarchy seems to rule in Mexico. Would their government still command enough respect for the military (along with others) to obey their orders when given? If not, then that would explain why the Mexican government does not have the stomach to order the military into action.

neverfail
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Re: second thoughts about Mexico ...

Post by neverfail » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:59 pm

Probably in January 1981, I walked over the US border into Mexico - specifically from San Ysidro, the last township in California before the frontier, into the adjacent Mexican city of Tijuana. While the US had elaborate border controls in place on the Mexican side was a small wooden immigration and customs office that I estimated might provide working space for up to 4 public officials. Not one customs and immigration official was anywhere to be seen. meantime thousands of visitors from the US side of the border were streaming into Tijuana mainly for a day's sightseeing and shopping - :shock: and the Mexican authorities were keeping no record of any of these foreigners being present in their country.

I had at that time in my life previously crossed over umpteen international frontiers elsewhere in my travels yet had never before or since encountered such slack border controls. Was I impressed? No, I was not!
..............................................................................................................................

Just 2 or 3 years ago I watched a current affairs program on our TV in which a couple of Australian investigative journalists looked into the issue of drug cartel turf wars in a northern province of Mexico adjacent to the US border. The Mexicans had been complaining about the US contributing to the violence in Cuidad Juarez city thanks to the slack gun laws of the state of Texas just to the north. To make a point the 2 journalists drove south into Mexico from El Paso, Texas, and were not challenged by any customs and immigration officials on the Mexican side of the border. In other words, the picture that emerged was one where the Americans were/are in earnest about policing their side of the border but the Mexicans were utterly nonchalant about policing theirs.

Anybody can drive into Mexico with a car boot laden with lethal firearms and munitions with impunity.

Mexico has truly made a rod for its own back by way of sheer bureaucratic negligence.
.................................................................................................................................

From (among other things) anecdotal evidence provided by By MANUEL SUÁREZ-MIER in the Asia Times articles I am moved to ask: does anyone else get the impression that Mexico might now be on the brink of civil war?

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Milo
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Re: How did a nice place like Mexico become a failed state?

Post by Milo » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:00 am

Neverfail:

Civil wars are led by disgruntled members of the elite for political aims and, from what I can see, Mexico's elite are just fine with this situation.

Narco violence is easy to avoid if you have money and, if you take the crime element out of the equation, Mexico's political system is decent.

I think the only thing that could solve Mexico's problems is a benevolent dictator, even then it would take decades.

Of course, if the world just grew up and legalized all illegal drugs, this problem would vanish quite quickly but few places are even beginning to take that step.

neverfail
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Re: How did a nice place like Mexico become a failed state?

Post by neverfail » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:31 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:00 am
Neverfail:

Civil wars are led by disgruntled members of the elite for political aims and, from what I can see, Mexico's elite are just fine with this situation.
You are obviously visualizing the American Civil War where a divided country split in two along regional lines and where leadership of The South was provided by the sons of the slave owner - planters. I am thinking more in terms of a broad revolutionary upheaval where society spontaneously goes into a state of utter meltdown - like Tsarist Russia in the wake of the Russian Army's series of battlefield defeats at the hands of the Germans. With the government of Mexico now sidelined and ineffectual I believe that the preconditions are established in Mexico for just such an upheaval.

You need only look at Mexico's own record of the series of civil wars it endured at the beginning of the 20th century to understand that this is a society with a penchant for present day Syrian grade violence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Revolution

.

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lzzrdgrrl
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Re: How did a nice place like Mexico become a failed state?

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:08 pm

Let's try a little closer to home. When a major component of the state infrastructure goes........ "oh, shit.... looks like really we messed up", there isn't much standing in the way of..... civil unrest??......

https://www.yahoo.com/news/punishing-wi ... 47838.html

Not a good place to see bigger and longer.....'>........
I have a certain notoriety among the lesser gods........

neverfail
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Re: How did a nice place like Mexico become a failed state?

Post by neverfail » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:07 pm

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:08 pm
Let's try a little closer to home. When a major component of the state infrastructure goes........ "oh, shit.... looks like really we messed up", there isn't much standing in the way of..... civil unrest??......

https://www.yahoo.com/news/punishing-wi ... 47838.html

Not a good place to see bigger and longer.....'>........
A red herring comparison Izz. Widespread complaints like that do not constitute civil unrest as I normally define it.

(That poor electric power utility was in a no win situation. Had they not cut out the power and a fallen power transmission cable had sparked off a bushfire conflagration they would have been blamed for loss of life and property anyhow. So what were they to do?)

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