US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

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Sertorio
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Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by Sertorio » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:12 pm

neverfail wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:31 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:54 am
The only Gulag I know in our days is Guantanamo and all the secret CIA jails abroad...
The analogy does not match. The Soviet Gulags were forced labour camps whose inmates were worked to death as slaves. At Guantanamo the prisoners are not worked; merely "kept on ice" indefinitely as non-paying guests of Uncle Sam.

Unlike the USSR, the USA is affluent enough to dispense with forced labour as a cost-ineffective means of getting work done.
I thought the problem was holding people illegally in prison, but you seem to think it's a forced labour issue... As if capitalism wasn't just another form of forced labour...

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armchair_pundit
Posts: 196
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Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by armchair_pundit » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:43 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:12 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:31 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:54 am
The only Gulag I know in our days is Guantanamo and all the secret CIA jails abroad...
The analogy does not match. The Soviet Gulags were forced labour camps whose inmates were worked to death as slaves. At Guantanamo the prisoners are not worked; merely "kept on ice" indefinitely as non-paying guests of Uncle Sam.

Unlike the USSR, the USA is affluent enough to dispense with forced labour as a cost-ineffective means of getting work done.
I thought the problem was holding people illegally in prison, but you seem to think it's a forced labour issue... As if capitalism wasn't just another form of forced labour...
Who do you think is incarcerated at Gitmo? Some homeless vagrants arrested for loitering?

We'll make you a deal, Sertorio, we will release all the Gitmo prisoners to your city in Portugal, where you can accept them into your home and community recognizing them as the oppressed people that they are.

Interested?

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Sertorio
Posts: 2815
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by Sertorio » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:47 pm

armchair_pundit wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:43 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:12 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:31 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:54 am
The only Gulag I know in our days is Guantanamo and all the secret CIA jails abroad...
The analogy does not match. The Soviet Gulags were forced labour camps whose inmates were worked to death as slaves. At Guantanamo the prisoners are not worked; merely "kept on ice" indefinitely as non-paying guests of Uncle Sam.

Unlike the USSR, the USA is affluent enough to dispense with forced labour as a cost-ineffective means of getting work done.
I thought the problem was holding people illegally in prison, but you seem to think it's a forced labour issue... As if capitalism wasn't just another form of forced labour...
Who do you think is incarcerated at Gitmo? Some homeless vagrants arrested for loitering?

We'll make you a deal, Sertorio, we will release all the Gitmo prisoners to your city in Portugal, where you can accept them into your home and community recognizing them as the oppressed people that they are.

Interested?
What about an alternative? You apply the rule of law, try those people allowing them proper counsel, and let a jury condemn or declare them innocent. But for some reason you seem to be afraid of what they might say in court...

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cassowary
Posts: 3206
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by cassowary » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:58 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:47 pm
armchair_pundit wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:43 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:12 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:31 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:54 am
The only Gulag I know in our days is Guantanamo and all the secret CIA jails abroad...
The analogy does not match. The Soviet Gulags were forced labour camps whose inmates were worked to death as slaves. At Guantanamo the prisoners are not worked; merely "kept on ice" indefinitely as non-paying guests of Uncle Sam.

Unlike the USSR, the USA is affluent enough to dispense with forced labour as a cost-ineffective means of getting work done.
I thought the problem was holding people illegally in prison, but you seem to think it's a forced labour issue... As if capitalism wasn't just another form of forced labour...
Who do you think is incarcerated at Gitmo? Some homeless vagrants arrested for loitering?

We'll make you a deal, Sertorio, we will release all the Gitmo prisoners to your city in Portugal, where you can accept them into your home and community recognizing them as the oppressed people that they are.

Interested?
What about an alternative? You apply the rule of law, try those people allowing them proper counsel, and let a jury condemn or declare them innocent. But for some reason you seem to be afraid of what they might say in court...
These are regarded as and treated as POWs. The war has not ended. You don’t try POWs.
The Imp :D

neverfail
Posts: 3974
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by neverfail » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:10 pm

cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:58 pm

These are regarded as and treated as POWs. The war has not ended. You don’t try POWs.
Thanks for mentioning that! I lose sight of the fact that Osama Bin Laden and his AL Queda gang committed a warlike act on the United States when they hijacked those planes and flew them, along with their passengers and air crews, into the Twin Towers. The Taliban regime made itself culpable by sheltering the mastermind behind the attacks.

Were it not for that the US would have not had the slightest incentive to send troops into such a forlorn place as Afghanistan.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 2815
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by Sertorio » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:07 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:58 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:47 pm
armchair_pundit wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:43 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:12 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:31 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:54 am
The only Gulag I know in our days is Guantanamo and all the secret CIA jails abroad...
The analogy does not match. The Soviet Gulags were forced labour camps whose inmates were worked to death as slaves. At Guantanamo the prisoners are not worked; merely "kept on ice" indefinitely as non-paying guests of Uncle Sam.

Unlike the USSR, the USA is affluent enough to dispense with forced labour as a cost-ineffective means of getting work done.
I thought the problem was holding people illegally in prison, but you seem to think it's a forced labour issue... As if capitalism wasn't just another form of forced labour...
Who do you think is incarcerated at Gitmo? Some homeless vagrants arrested for loitering?

We'll make you a deal, Sertorio, we will release all the Gitmo prisoners to your city in Portugal, where you can accept them into your home and community recognizing them as the oppressed people that they are.

Interested?
What about an alternative? You apply the rule of law, try those people allowing them proper counsel, and let a jury condemn or declare them innocent. But for some reason you seem to be afraid of what they might say in court...
These are regarded as and treated as POWs. The war has not ended. You don’t try POWs.
Very funny! A POW is still a person with rights, who may be guilty or innocent of crimes. Being a POW - which I dispute - could never be an excuse to deny people their basic rights. But you - like your American masters - will use any excuses, no matter how bad, to oppress those who oppose your imperialistic designs.

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Sertorio
Posts: 2815
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by Sertorio » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:09 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:10 pm
cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:58 pm

These are regarded as and treated as POWs. The war has not ended. You don’t try POWs.
Thanks for mentioning that! I lose sight of the fact that Osama Bin Laden and his AL Queda gang committed a warlike act on the United States when they hijacked those planes and flew them, along with their passengers and air crews, into the Twin Towers. The Taliban regime made itself culpable by sheltering the mastermind behind the attacks.

Were it not for that the US would have not had the slightest incentive to send troops into such a forlorn place as Afghanistan.
Since when does the US need incentives to use force at the service of their illegitimate interests?...

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Doc
Posts: 3328
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by Doc » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:59 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:09 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:10 pm
cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:58 pm

These are regarded as and treated as POWs. The war has not ended. You don’t try POWs.
Thanks for mentioning that! I lose sight of the fact that Osama Bin Laden and his AL Queda gang committed a warlike act on the United States when they hijacked those planes and flew them, along with their passengers and air crews, into the Twin Towers. The Taliban regime made itself culpable by sheltering the mastermind behind the attacks.

Were it not for that the US would have not had the slightest incentive to send troops into such a forlorn place as Afghanistan.
Since when does the US need incentives to use force at the service of their illegitimate interests?...
REALLY? Sertorio freedom of the seas is in everyone's interest, except for pirates of course.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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cassowary
Posts: 3206
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by cassowary » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:37 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:07 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:58 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:47 pm
armchair_pundit wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:43 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:12 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:31 pm


The analogy does not match. The Soviet Gulags were forced labour camps whose inmates were worked to death as slaves. At Guantanamo the prisoners are not worked; merely "kept on ice" indefinitely as non-paying guests of Uncle Sam.

Unlike the USSR, the USA is affluent enough to dispense with forced labour as a cost-ineffective means of getting work done.
I thought the problem was holding people illegally in prison, but you seem to think it's a forced labour issue... As if capitalism wasn't just another form of forced labour...
Who do you think is incarcerated at Gitmo? Some homeless vagrants arrested for loitering?

We'll make you a deal, Sertorio, we will release all the Gitmo prisoners to your city in Portugal, where you can accept them into your home and community recognizing them as the oppressed people that they are.

Interested?
What about an alternative? You apply the rule of law, try those people allowing them proper counsel, and let a jury condemn or declare them innocent. But for some reason you seem to be afraid of what they might say in court...
These are regarded as and treated as POWs. The war has not ended. You don’t try POWs.
Very funny! A POW is still a person with rights, who may be guilty or innocent of crimes. Being a POW - which I dispute - could never be an excuse to deny people their basic rights. But you - like your American masters - will use any excuses, no matter how bad, to oppress those who oppose your imperialistic designs.
What rights as a POW were they denied? A POW is kept imprisoned not because they committed a crime but for being an enemy combatant. And it’s for the duration of the war. The war is not over.
The Imp :D

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 2815
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by Sertorio » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:58 pm

cassowary wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:37 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:07 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:58 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:47 pm
armchair_pundit wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:43 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:12 pm


I thought the problem was holding people illegally in prison, but you seem to think it's a forced labour issue... As if capitalism wasn't just another form of forced labour...
Who do you think is incarcerated at Gitmo? Some homeless vagrants arrested for loitering?

We'll make you a deal, Sertorio, we will release all the Gitmo prisoners to your city in Portugal, where you can accept them into your home and community recognizing them as the oppressed people that they are.

Interested?
What about an alternative? You apply the rule of law, try those people allowing them proper counsel, and let a jury condemn or declare them innocent. But for some reason you seem to be afraid of what they might say in court...
These are regarded as and treated as POWs. The war has not ended. You don’t try POWs.
Very funny! A POW is still a person with rights, who may be guilty or innocent of crimes. Being a POW - which I dispute - could never be an excuse to deny people their basic rights. But you - like your American masters - will use any excuses, no matter how bad, to oppress those who oppose your imperialistic designs.
What rights as a POW were they denied? A POW is kept imprisoned not because they committed a crime but for being an enemy combatant. And it’s for the duration of the war. The war is not over.
War? Which war? Was war declared? By whom against whom? How can an undeclared war ever end? Which is very convenient. Like that you can keep people in prison for the next 500 years... I don't think you are stupid. Why do you then insist in considering me stupid?...

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