US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

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neverfail
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Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by neverfail » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:02 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:07 am

Very funny! A POW is still a person with rights, who may be guilty or innocent of crimes. Being a POW - which I dispute - could never be an excuse to deny people their basic rights. But you - like your American masters - will use any excuses, no matter how bad, to oppress those who oppose your imperialistic designs.
Despite your past record as a serving military officer in Angola: the above expression of pomposity only reveals just how little knowledge you have about the lack of chivalry in modern warfare

Are you aware that during the Second World War the Japanese routinely used captive allied prisoners of war as slave labor on projects like the infamous Burma railway? As for food and medical care the POW's were pretty-well left to fend for themselves - they ate weeds and rats to survive.

By the standards of the WW2 Japanese Imperial Army that actually passed for an act of mercy. If they captured an Asian soldier (say a Chinese nationalist one) I believe that the only use they usually had for him was a cruel death by live bayonet practice drill.

When called to account after the war the Japanese hid behind the legalism "we never signed the Geneva convention on the rights of POW's." It seems to never have occurred to the Japanese that even in the absence of such a legal constraint still did not relieve them of the moral obligation to treat enemy captives with respect.

Then there was the Soviet Union's treatment of German POW's and Nazi Germany's treatment of Russian POW's during the same global conflict. The former were sent off to the GULAG camps to be worked to death as slave laborers and the latter to the Third Reich's extermination camps as sub-humans - fit only for extermination.

I could go on and on covering outrages committed even in more recent conflicts but what is the use? The point is that if you become a POW in enemy hands the only rights you have are those that your captors are willing to extend to you. You are entirely at their mercy.

In that regard the record of the United States, though somewhat flawed, is still a vast improvement on the conduct of the above mentioned rogue states and dozens of lesser ones. At least the Yanks normally strive to abide by the Geneva convention even while the enemies they wage war against don't.

Just because your home country of Portugal was not embroiled in any of the above conflicts is still no excuse for you to maintain a state of innocence over the fact that these travesties went on. The narcissism you give vent to based upon ignorance is frankly infuriating.

neverfail
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Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by neverfail » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:08 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:58 pm

War? Which war? Was war declared? By whom against whom?
Al Queda declared war on the United States when their (useful fools?) jihadist fanatic pilots rammed those hijacked passenger aircraft into the Twin Towers. Just as Imperial Japan did the same when they bombed Pearl Harbor back in 1941 when their country and the USA were still formally at peace.

A declaration of war does not always come in the form of a formal document or public statement by a political leader.

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cassowary
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Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by cassowary » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:10 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:58 pm
cassowary wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:37 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:07 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:58 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:47 pm
armchair_pundit wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:43 pm


Who do you think is incarcerated at Gitmo? Some homeless vagrants arrested for loitering?

We'll make you a deal, Sertorio, we will release all the Gitmo prisoners to your city in Portugal, where you can accept them into your home and community recognizing them as the oppressed people that they are.

Interested?
What about an alternative? You apply the rule of law, try those people allowing them proper counsel, and let a jury condemn or declare them innocent. But for some reason you seem to be afraid of what they might say in court...
These are regarded as and treated as POWs. The war has not ended. You don’t try POWs.
Very funny! A POW is still a person with rights, who may be guilty or innocent of crimes. Being a POW - which I dispute - could never be an excuse to deny people their basic rights. But you - like your American masters - will use any excuses, no matter how bad, to oppress those who oppose your imperialistic designs.
What rights as a POW were they denied? A POW is kept imprisoned not because they committed a crime but for being an enemy combatant. And it’s for the duration of the war. The war is not over.
War? Which war? Was war declared? By whom against whom? How can an undeclared war ever end? Which is very convenient. Like that you can keep people in prison for the next 500 years... I don't think you are stupid. Why do you then insist in considering me stupid?...
War was declared by radical Islamists when the WTC was destroyed on 911, 2001. Osama bin Laden declared the war.

In a speech, he called the US to Islam. Failure to heed the call meant war. Those who studied Islam understand what this means. This is nothing new. It is as old as Islam.

If you read the Hadiths, you will come across a verse of Prophet Mohammed making the same call to embrace Islam to Roman Emperor Heraclius. When he refused, War was declared.

OBL May be dead, but the torch of jihad passed to others. There is ISIS, Abu Sayyaf in my part of the world.

The war may never end. I suspect that somebody will always carry the torch of jihad against infidels so long as there is Islam. So the Gitmo POWs may be imprisoned for a very long time.

And it’s there own fault for restarting the war that was originally started by their Prophet and they have not stopped fighting to this day. So POWs they shall remain.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/ ... heobserver

Look for (Q2) (1). Call to Islam. OBL was imitating his Prophet. A call to Islam is really an ultimatum. Refusal means war.

........................................,......

By the way, Sertorio, are you aware that Portugal is also in the Islamic fanatics’ crosshairs?

According to their scriptures, any land that was formerly Muslim must be reconquered. This also means Spain too is a target.

Read this Sertorio:

http://jcpa.org/video/islamic-terrorist ... r-attacks/
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by Sertorio » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:13 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:02 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:07 am

Very funny! A POW is still a person with rights, who may be guilty or innocent of crimes. Being a POW - which I dispute - could never be an excuse to deny people their basic rights. But you - like your American masters - will use any excuses, no matter how bad, to oppress those who oppose your imperialistic designs.
Despite your past record as a serving military officer in Angola: the above expression of pomposity only reveals just how little knowledge you have about the lack of chivalry in modern warfare

Are you aware that during the Second World War the Japanese routinely used captive allied prisoners of war as slave labor on projects like the infamous Burma railway? As for food and medical care the POW's were pretty-well left to fend for themselves - they ate weeds and rats to survive.

By the standards of the WW2 Japanese Imperial Army that actually passed for an act of mercy. If they captured an Asian soldier (say a Chinese nationalist one) I believe that the only use they usually had for him was a cruel death by live bayonet practice drill.

When called to account after the war the Japanese hid behind the legalism "we never signed the Geneva convention on the rights of POW's." It seems to never have occurred to the Japanese that even in the absence of such a legal constraint still did not relieve them of the moral obligation to treat enemy captives with respect.

Then there was the Soviet Union's treatment of German POW's and Nazi Germany's treatment of Russian POW's during the same global conflict. The former were sent off to the GULAG camps to be worked to death as slave laborers and the latter to the Third Reich's extermination camps as sub-humans - fit only for extermination.

I could go on and on covering outrages committed even in more recent conflicts but what is the use? The point is that if you become a POW in enemy hands the only rights you have are those that your captors are willing to extend to you. You are entirely at their mercy.

In that regard the record of the United States, though somewhat flawed, is still a vast improvement on the conduct of the above mentioned rogue states and dozens of lesser ones. At least the Yanks normally strive to abide by the Geneva convention even while the enemies they wage war against don't.

Just because your home country of Portugal was not embroiled in any of the above conflicts is still no excuse for you to maintain a state of innocence over the fact that these travesties went on. The narcissism you give vent to based upon ignorance is frankly infuriating.
And doesn't that all bother you a bit? Can you just live with it and say "c'est la vie..."? If we can be so nonchallant about such savagery, what hope can we have of ever putting an end to it? Sorry, but don't count on me to be an accomplice of that savagery. I will not accept it - from any country or anybody - and I will fight it as long as I live.

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Sertorio
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Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by Sertorio » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:18 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:08 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:58 pm

War? Which war? Was war declared? By whom against whom?
Al Queda declared war on the United States when their (useful fools?) jihadist fanatic pilots rammed those hijacked passenger aircraft into the Twin Towers. Just as Imperial Japan did the same when they bombed Pearl Harbor back in 1941 when their country and the USA were still formally at peace.

A declaration of war does not always come in the form of a formal document or public statement by a political leader.
There may be fighting and violence under many forms and shapes, but war can only exist between sovereign states. Declaring war is a statement valid only under international law. Stop trying to find excuses for the inexcusable...

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Sertorio
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Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by Sertorio » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:21 am

Doc wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:59 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:09 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:10 pm
cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:58 pm

These are regarded as and treated as POWs. The war has not ended. You don’t try POWs.
Thanks for mentioning that! I lose sight of the fact that Osama Bin Laden and his AL Queda gang committed a warlike act on the United States when they hijacked those planes and flew them, along with their passengers and air crews, into the Twin Towers. The Taliban regime made itself culpable by sheltering the mastermind behind the attacks.

Were it not for that the US would have not had the slightest incentive to send troops into such a forlorn place as Afghanistan.
Since when does the US need incentives to use force at the service of their illegitimate interests?...
REALLY? Sertorio freedom of the seas is in everyone's interest, except for pirates of course.
As far as I know, nobody but the US and the UK (see the highjacking of the Grace 1 off Gibraltar...) threaten the freedom of the seas...

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Doc
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Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by Doc » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:24 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:21 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:59 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:09 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:10 pm
cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:58 pm

These are regarded as and treated as POWs. The war has not ended. You don’t try POWs.
Thanks for mentioning that! I lose sight of the fact that Osama Bin Laden and his AL Queda gang committed a warlike act on the United States when they hijacked those planes and flew them, along with their passengers and air crews, into the Twin Towers. The Taliban regime made itself culpable by sheltering the mastermind behind the attacks.

Were it not for that the US would have not had the slightest incentive to send troops into such a forlorn place as Afghanistan.
Since when does the US need incentives to use force at the service of their illegitimate interests?...
REALLY? Sertorio freedom of the seas is in everyone's interest, except for pirates of course.
As far as I know, nobody but the US and the UK (see the highjacking of the Grace 1 off Gibraltar...) threaten the freedom of the seas...
Iran has now seized about a half dozen oil tankers. IRan is also in violation of the embargo against Assad as well as being under sanctions itself over its its nuclear program.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Sertorio
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Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by Sertorio » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:39 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:08 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:58 pm

War? Which war? Was war declared? By whom against whom?
Al Queda declared war on the United States when their (useful fools?) jihadist fanatic pilots rammed those hijacked passenger aircraft into the Twin Towers. Just as Imperial Japan did the same when they bombed Pearl Harbor back in 1941 when their country and the USA were still formally at peace.

A declaration of war does not always come in the form of a formal document or public statement by a political leader.
You better read this:

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/09/artic ... s-of-9-11/
We are all hostages of 9/11
After years of reporting on the Great War on Terror, many questions behind the US attacks remain unresolved

ByPEPE ESCOBAR

neverfail
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Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by neverfail » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:03 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:13 am

And doesn't that all bother you a bit? Can you just live with it and say "c'est la vie..."? If we can be so nonchallant about such savagery, what hope can we have of ever putting an end to it? Sorry, but don't count on me to be an accomplice of that savagery. I will not accept it - from any country or anybody - and I will fight it as long as I live.
Yes, it bothers me a lot Sertorio. But that is the way of the world (has been since time immemorial) and all of the huffing and puffing in the World is not going to change it.

Not complicity, just resignation!

neverfail
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Re: US-ASEAN joint naval exercise sends a message to China

Post by neverfail » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:10 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:18 am
]
There may be fighting and violence under many forms and shapes, but war can only exist between sovereign states. Declaring war is a statement valid only under international law. Stop trying to find excuses for the inexcusable...
Im think that you, not I are trying to find excuses for the inexcusable Sertorio.

Are you familiar with the word filibuster? Until the Americans misappropriated this word to signify a tactical political ploy in the conduct of their Congress it meant a person engaging in unauthorized warfare against a foreign state.. Does that not describe what Osama Bin Laden did?

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