Xi is losing

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cassowary
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Xi is losing

Post by cassowary » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:30 pm

Carrie Lam withdraws Extradition bill

This is humiliating for Xi because he can't get the Hongkees to have an extradition treaty with China even though HK has an extradition treaty with its arch enemy, the US as well as its former colonial master, the UK and its rival city, Singapore.
HONG KONG: Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam on Wednesday (Sep 4) said that she will officially withdraw the extradition Bill that triggered months of protests so the Chinese-ruled city can move forward from a "highly vulnerable and dangerous" place and find solutions.

The announcement came after Reuters reports on Friday and Monday revealed that Beijing had thwarted an earlier proposal from Lam to withdraw the Bill and that she had said privately that she would resign if she could, according to a leaked audio recording.
HERE IS WHAT THE NEWSPAPERS DID NOT REPORT

In my opinion, the Hongkees have not much to lose by their protests. But the rich tycoons who run the city do. Let me explain. The tycoons own most of the land in HK. So it is in their interests to increase the value of land and properties. This makes it expensive for the average Hongkee to buy property.

Only 51% of Hongkees own their own property as compared to 91% in Singapore. For many Hongkees, they do not have much to lose. So they are willing to fight for the only thing they have - their freedom, which Xi wants to take away.

But the reality for HK's poor is even worse than what the 51% number reveals. Hundreds of thousands living in "coffin cubicles":

Image

Very cramped bedrooms.

Image

Toilets and Kitchens merge.

This is how I diagnose the situation. Polybius, the Greek historian wrote about the cycle of political systems. According to him, there were three types of government in ancient Greece - monarch, aristocracy and democracy.

In a monarchy, one man has most of the power. As time goes on, he will abuse his power to serve himself and his family and then gets thrown out. Replacing one man rule is the aristocracy, where a few people have most of the power. When they abuse their power to enrich themselves or whatever, they will be thrown out and replaced by a democracy.

HK is in the second phase where the rich tycoons run the country. (The tycoons are the modern equivalents of the aristocrats in Polybius' day.) So of course, they use that power to enrich themselves at the expense of others. These tycoons want to see property prices go higher and higher, making living conditions worse. That is why the Hongkees are so persistent in their protests. For many, they have nothing to lose but their freedom.

................................................................................................................................

One more thing, Polybius said. In a democracy, the common people will have most of the power. Whey they abuse their power to oppress the others, the system will also collapse. The emergence of the unsustainable welfare state is the prime example of this. This leads to huge debt, high taxes and capital flight. It is the "aristocratic" class (ie In modern times, they are the job creators and successful entrepreneurs )that get oppressed by higher taxes.

He warned that when the system becomes nonviable, a dictator (monarch in his day) will emerge and the cycle starts again. This happened in Chile where Pinochet took over and in Venezuela where Maduro took over. The former was a capitalist dictator while the latter is a Socialist dictator. The former succeeded in restoring prosperity and democracy with his free market policies. The latter will fail since his Socialist policies are the exact opposite of Pinochet's policies.
Last edited by cassowary on Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:06 am, edited 6 times in total.
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neverfail
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Re: Xi is losing

Post by neverfail » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:43 pm

cassowary wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:30 pm
Carrie Lam withdraws Extradition bill

This is humiliating for Xi because he can't get the Hongkees to have an extradition treaty with China even though HK has an extradition treaty with its arch enemy, the US as well as its former colonial master, the UK and its rival city, Singapore.
About the smartest thing she can do Cass. Nice to see that her boss/bosses in Beijing are flexible enough to give her the go-ahead. It might have come too late. I believe that the protesters have since broadened their agenda way beyond that goal.

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cassowary
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Re: Xi is losing

Post by cassowary » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:07 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:43 pm
cassowary wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:30 pm
Carrie Lam withdraws Extradition bill

This is humiliating for Xi because he can't get the Hongkees to have an extradition treaty with China even though HK has an extradition treaty with its arch enemy, the US as well as its former colonial master, the UK and its rival city, Singapore.
About the smartest thing she can do Cass. Nice to see that her boss/bosses in Beijing are flexible enough to give her the go-ahead. It might have come too late. I believe that the protesters have since broadened their agenda way beyond that goal.
It is not "she". The one pulling the puppet strings is Xi.

This is clear from a secret recording of a discussion made to business leaders.
“For a chief executive to have caused this huge havoc to Hong Kong is unforgivable,” Ms Lam was heard saying in a recording published by Reuters. “If I have a choice, the first thing is to quit, having made a deep apology, to step down.” She added in the recording that her room for manoeuvre was limited because the issue had been elevated to a “national level” in Beijing and that the US-China trade war had complicated matters.

The Financial Times reported in July that Ms Lam had offered to resign on several occasions but Beijing had refused to let her step down.
It is Xi who calls the shots in HK.
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Re: Xi is losing

Post by neverfail » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:56 am

"Xi calls the shots" even in deciding whether she can resign as HK Premier or not? I wonder whether he wants to keep Ms. Lam on as his fall guy to blame the debacle on?


Meantime, on the Chinese mainland:
https://newsmim.com/hongkongers-vow-to- ... inese.html

On China’s biggest public social media platform, Weibo, some users had been questioning why violent protesters who would be jailed on the mainland seemed to get their method in Hong Kong.
I now see what you mean by politically embarrassing for Xi. For months the PRC media have stigmatized the HK protesters as "thugs" and "rioters" stirred up by agents of foreign powers. Making concessions to them now makes the government in Beijing look weak.

On the mainland they have no sympathy for either the protesters nor any love of HK itself. They apparently regard HK residents as snooty, superior and very much up themselves.

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Re: Xi is losing

Post by Sertorio » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:08 am

The problem is not Hong Kong having an extradition treaty with China, but the terms of such treaty. Extraditing to China people who have not committed a crime in China is unacceptable, but if the crime was committed in China such an extradition is the normal thing to do.

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cassowary
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Re: Xi is losing

Post by cassowary » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:41 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:56 am
"Xi calls the shots" even in deciding whether she can resign as HK Premier or not? I wonder whether he wants to keep Ms. Lam on as his fall guy to blame the debacle on?
I think it is because the Protestors have demanded the resignation of Carrie Lam. Allowing her to resign would be giving in to their demands and make Xi look weak.

Meantime, on the Chinese mainland:
https://newsmim.com/hongkongers-vow-to- ... inese.html

On China’s biggest public social media platform, Weibo, some users had been questioning why violent protesters who would be jailed on the mainland seemed to get their method in Hong Kong.
I now see what you mean by politically embarrassing for Xi. For months the PRC media have stigmatized the HK protesters as "thugs" and "rioters" stirred up by agents of foreign powers. Making concessions to them now makes the government in Beijing look weak.
You are absolutely right. Now they are wondering why Xi gave in to them. This (I hope) will give them ideas that if they protest, they might have their own grievances taken cared of.
On the mainland they have no sympathy for either the protesters nor any love of HK itself. They apparently regard HK residents as snooty, superior and very much up themselves.
Again, you are correct. Hongkees are snooty and look down upon their mainland cousins. Hongkees see them as country bumpkins. Maybe it is because the mainlanders do things like this:

Image This happened in Singapore! A city that prides itself as clean.


PRC woman let her son sh..t in public in Singapore (PRC stands for People's Republic of China)

So I guess the Hongkees are right in that their mainlanders are country bumpkins. Here is another one:

Image

Our pristine MRT does not even allow eating on the trains. But the rules did not mention sh...ing.
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Re: Xi is losing

Post by neverfail » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:08 am

So you are saying that in HK along with better living standards they have better standards of behavior as well?

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Sertorio
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Re: Xi is losing

Post by Sertorio » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:28 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:08 am
So you are saying that in HK along with better living standards they have better standards of behavior as well?
Better standards of behaviour are not always tied to better living standards. When I was doing my military service in Angola, in 1966-1968, I was for a time active in Eastern Angola, in one of the least developed provinces of Angola. People were poor and most lived from subsistence agriculture. Once I came to a village whose chief was a taylor who had come from central Angola. He was very strict with the people in the village and had them sweeping every day the dirt ground of the village, so that everything was perfectly clean. The fact of being poor didn't stop them from being clean and wanting to live in a proper environment. Development can be speeded up through education, but it very often comes from the inside. If you have a sense of organization things will get better, no matter how poor you are.

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cassowary
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Re: Xi is losing

Post by cassowary » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:15 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:08 am
So you are saying that in HK along with better living standards they have better standards of behavior as well?
Yes. Usually the two come together.
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Re: Xi is losing

Post by neverfail » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:56 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:15 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:08 am
So you are saying that in HK along with better living standards they have better standards of behavior as well?
Yes. Usually the two come together.
Usually but not always? I agree!

Cass, re. those rather distasteful pictures of the small children (presumably the infant offsprings of visitors/immigrants from rural mainland China): have they not heard of nappies (diapers) up there?

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