A black American lament.

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neverfail
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by neverfail » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:32 pm

Doc wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:11 pm


They call it the inner city plantation. The history is a lot more complicated than it seems. For Example black people mostly became democrats in the 1930's because of FDR's New Deal. From that point forward 70% of black voters were Democrats. They switched as a matter of survival as the chances of local democratic officials allowing them to get help from the New Deal were pretty much zero if they were registered as republicans.
Now that is very interesting doc. The New Deal should have been a program of national recovery applied oblivious to voting patterns instead of partisan pork-barreling on a massive scale. Until I first entered this website and began to read posts from American contributors telling me the contrary (along with a book recommended to me by Cassowary - thanks Cass!) I had always presumed that it was that. I still recoil at just how corruptly the New Deal programs were administered.

Why are US politics so disgracefully cynical?

Further question: why did black Americans persist in supporting the Democrats after the New Deal benefits were wound up since their attraction to this party was (as you say) one of short-term economic desperation instead of a freely chosen sense of solidarity with the rest of The Democrats movement based upon shared ideals?

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Doc
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by Doc » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:40 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:32 pm
Doc wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:11 pm


They call it the inner city plantation. The history is a lot more complicated than it seems. For Example black people mostly became democrats in the 1930's because of FDR's New Deal. From that point forward 70% of black voters were Democrats. They switched as a matter of survival as the chances of local democratic officials allowing them to get help from the New Deal were pretty much zero if they were registered as republicans.
Now that is very interesting doc. The New Deal should have been a program of national recovery applied oblivious to voting patterns instead of partisan pork-barreling on a massive scale. Until I first entered this website and began to read posts from American contributors telling me the contrary (along with a book recommended to me by Cassowary - thanks Cass!) I had always presumed that it was that. I still recoil at just how corruptly the New Deal programs were administered.

Why are US politics so disgracefully cynical?

Further question: why did black Americans persist in supporting the Democrats after the New Deal benefits were wound up since their attraction to this party was (as you say) one of short-term economic desperation instead of a freely chosen sense of solidarity with the rest of The Democrats movement based upon shared ideals?
It was more like 100 years of desperation. With bouts of extreme desperation. Did you know that the KKK lynched 1247 white republicans? That was out of an estimated 4 or 5 thousand lynchings. No one was going to help black people in the south. When some did try they ended up dead. Complete lack of hope has more to do with Black support of the Democrats than anything else. They resign themselves that things will not get better and live day to day.

No one here has asked the obvious question about Baltimore and teh $22,500 per each Man Woman and Child. Which is why didn't they just give the money to the poor? (In which case giving it only to the poor it would be 50K each or more) The reason is what Trump said. None of them would want to live there so would take the money and move elsewhere. Then the local democrats would lose some of their power and grant money as it is all about head counts. Can't have that.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Milo
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by Milo » Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:24 am

Such extraordinary claims backed up by... Doc says so!

As far as I can tell none of what Doc says about the New Deal is true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal

The ND consists of many programs, enacted over decades. For example the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. Does Doc assert it only bailed out 'black banks' in return for their support of the Democrat Party?

neverfail
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by neverfail » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:05 am

Doc wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:40 pm

It was more like 100 years of desperation. With bouts of extreme desperation. Did you know that the KKK lynched 1247 white republicans? That was out of an estimated 4 or 5 thousand lynchings. No one was going to help black people in the south. When some did try they ended up dead. Complete lack of hope has more to do with Black support of the Democrats than anything else. They resign themselves that things will not get better and live day to day.
I knew that there were plenty of lynchings by the KKK in the south in those times but of course I did not know that they even did it even to white Republicans.

It has occurred to me Doc that the USA might have turned out a better country had Abe Lincoln not embarked on his war to force the Confederate states back into the American union. Let the toxic, recalcitrant South go its own way as a separate sovereign entity and let its own innate corruption subsequently bring it down from within.
Doc wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:40 pm
No one here has asked the obvious question about Baltimore and teh $22,500 per each Man Woman and Child. Which is why didn't they just give the money to the poor? (In which case giving it only to the poor it would be 50K each or more) The reason is what Trump said. None of them would want to live there so would take the money and move elsewhere. Then the local democrats would lose some of their power and grant money as it is all about head counts. Can't have that.
No further comment!

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cassowary
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by cassowary » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:18 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:17 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:23 am


Neither Neverfail. I belong to the third category, the truth teller. What I was pointing out is obvious. The Democrat party remains the party that screws the black community. Baltimore is exhibit A. Democrats have political power in Baltimore for more than 20 years. The result is poverty, rat infested homes and crime.
I publish the big picture Cass which you apparently choose to ignore. Baltimore is just one city out of hundreds across the USA. With a black majority population The Democrats Party machine in Baltimore would have to be black controlled. So you might as well blame it on black petty corruption rather than use it as a pretext to tar the entire Democrats movement with the same brush.
Your big picture misses the point. The point is that the policies the DP implemented resulted in poverty for the black community . It is not just in Baltimore. Cities where the DP has been in power for a Long time become cesspools. Policies are wrong because the diagnosis was wrong. Just as a doctor cannot prescribe the correct medicine with a wrong diagnosis, elected leaders also cannot carry out correct policies with a wrong diagnosis of the problem.

The cause of black poverty is not white racism but something that comes from themselves. They need more introspection. One cause is, as I said, the breakdown of the black family. There is a wealth of social studies showing single parent families are likely to be poor.

The Democrats keep talking about racism and advocating wealth transfer programs. The latest is reparations. While this wins votes, it also won’t uplift the black community. It only distracts from necessary self examination on why they failed. They can start by changing black behaviour to stabilise their families. Kids need a stable home environment to do well in life.
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neverfail
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by neverfail » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:24 am

Milo wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:24 am
Such extraordinary claims backed up by... Doc says so!

As far as I can tell none of what Doc says about the New Deal is true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal

The ND consists of many programs, enacted over decades. For example the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. Does Doc assert it only bailed out 'black banks' in return for their support of the Democrat Party?
Thanks for that link (reality check) Milo. This is closer to what I had previously known about the New Deal - and I would have confidence in Wikipedia's impartiality.

The fly in the New Deal ointment appears with hindsight to have been the contributions by the toxic Dixie wing of the Democrats Party movement in turning even some New Deal policies inaugurated to help the blacks against their best interests. From that Wikipedia assessment there were some good people in the Roosevelt administration who had the best interests of the blacks at heart but unfortunately the Southern "millstone around the neck" of the Democrats movement seems to have nullified a lot of the potential good that might have otherwise been done.

I believe that The Democrats would have been a better party had it never incorporated that Dixie component, with its attached Good Old Boys' network (and KKK auxiliary), into its body but based its constituency more heavily on the northern labor unions and other strands of support in the north and west of the US. The Democrats would likely have turned out a lot like our Australian Labor Party. That would have been to America's lasting benefit.

neverfail
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by neverfail » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:35 am

cassowary wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:18 am
The cause of black poverty is not white racism but something that comes from themselves. They need more introspection. One cause is, as I said, the breakdown of the black family. There is a wealth of social studies showing single parent families are likely to be poor.
Well of course single parent black families are likely to be poor. Single parent WHITE families are likely to be poor too - not just in the USA but here in Australia as well. It is a global trend cass. Even single parent Chinese households in Singapore are likely to be poor.

So what is your point?

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Doc
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by Doc » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:38 am

neverfail wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:05 am
Doc wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:40 pm

It was more like 100 years of desperation. With bouts of extreme desperation. Did you know that the KKK lynched 1247 white republicans? That was out of an estimated 4 or 5 thousand lynchings. No one was going to help black people in the south. When some did try they ended up dead. Complete lack of hope has more to do with Black support of the Democrats than anything else. They resign themselves that things will not get better and live day to day.
I knew that there were plenty of lynchings by the KKK in the south in those times but of course I did not know that they even did it even to white Republicans.

It has occurred to me Doc that the USA might have turned out a better country had Abe Lincoln not embarked on his war to force the Confederate states back into the American union. Let the toxic, recalcitrant South go its own way as a separate sovereign entity and let its own innate corruption subsequently bring it down from within.
Southerners had dreams of a slave empire spanning the Americas. The war ended those dreams for the most part.

Doc wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:40 pm
No one here has asked the obvious question about Baltimore and teh $22,500 per each Man Woman and Child. Which is why didn't they just give the money to the poor? (In which case giving it only to the poor it would be 50K each or more) The reason is what Trump said. None of them would want to live there so would take the money and move elsewhere. Then the local democrats would lose some of their power and grant money as it is all about head counts. Can't have that.
No further comment!
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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cassowary
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by cassowary » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:27 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:35 am
cassowary wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:18 am
The cause of black poverty is not white racism but something that comes from themselves. They need more introspection. One cause is, as I said, the breakdown of the black family. There is a wealth of social studies showing single parent families are likely to be poor.
Well of course single parent black families are likely to be poor. Single parent WHITE families are likely to be poor too - not just in the USA but here in Australia as well. It is a global trend cass. Even single parent Chinese households in Singapore are likely to be poor.

So what is your point?
I already told you somewhere in one of my posts. About 70% of black babies are born out of wedlock to single mothers which is much higher than that for whites and Asians. This accounts to a large extent for black poverty. They need to correct this cultural flaw. This means their poverty is not due to racism but is largely their own fault.

So they need to stop blaming white people for their own failure. Just as Muslims blame Jews when things go wrong, black people blame white people. There are two types of people. There are those who ask, “what did I do wrong?”, when things go wrong. Then there are those who ask, “who Screwed me up?” The former group will become successful. The latter will fail.
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by neverfail » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:44 pm

Doc wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:38 am

Southerners had dreams of a slave empire spanning the Americas. The war ended those dreams for the most part.


Doc, I never suggested that the CSA would have ended up a better place as a sovereign state: only that the USA might have been minus this millstone around its neck.

(P.S. the face of the latter-day Confederate States patriot pictured above looks to me as though he might be part-Afro in ancestry. :D )

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