A black American lament.

Discussion of current events
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cassowary
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by cassowary » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:41 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:42 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:13 am
neverfail wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:12 pm

By the way, I agree absolutely that as a rule the child who grows up in a one parent home is usually handicapped for life. Some individuals manage to overcome this handicap and still end up living normal, contented lives but unfortunately many do not.

Well, I submit that the absentee father is the most important cause of why Afro Americans have not caught up. It is not discrimination. Nothing in that essay which you linked to point this out at least as a partial cause. It was always blame racism. This is a crutch and a distraction. It deviates the community away from solving its problems by blaming others.

Notice that the essay I linked to (from a black South African lady) tackled the same problem courageously and honestly. She avoided the temptation of blaming it on the years of Apartheid that black South Africans were subjected to. She did not have a chip on her shoulder unlike the black American lady from your link.
One particular individual can do it if he/she can develop the needed spiritual rebound to conquer a toxic legacy but entire communities do not seem to work the same way. On that count I did not get the impression that the black American writer personally blamed her own travails on white racism but instead presented a quite plausible historical explanation as to why the sector of American society she is unavoidably part of by birth lags so far behind. Those poor bastards have had the cards stacked against them ever since the first shipment of slaves arrived in an American port centuries ago. An American nightmare instead of the American dream. The effects of a nationjal experience like that tend to be cumulative.

What is the solution? I am clueless!
But Neverfail,

Black Americans are better off than Black Africans. They are lucky that their ancestors got enslaved by fellow Africans and sold. In Africa, they might be suffering from tribal discrimination.

I dont find her essay a plausible explanation for black poverty. It’s just a whiny excuse to blame others for the failure of her community. If you refuse to make an honest assessment of what you did wrong and persist in blaming others, you will not progress. The black African lady was on the right track. The black American lady is on the wrong track.
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by neverfail » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:16 am

cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:41 pm

But Neverfail,

Black Americans are better off than Black Africans.
How do you know? Africans on their home continent as a rule seem secure in their identity but I am not so sure that black Americans have cause to be so confident in their own. America has never been able to offer them an honorable place in the great American dream.

Black America = white America's highly visible nagging, guilty conscience. :mrgreen:

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cassowary
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by cassowary » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:03 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:16 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:41 pm

But Neverfail,

Black Americans are better off than Black Africans.
How do you know? Africans on their home continent as a rule seem secure in their identity but I am not so sure that black Americans have cause to be so confident in their own. America has never been able to offer them an honorable place in the great American dream.

Black America = white America's highly visible nagging, guilty conscience. :mrgreen:
Nonsense neverfail. It is the left that perpetuates this guilt for political reasons and it retards the advancement of the black community. It has become a crutch and an excuse for failure. It prevents them from examine themselves to identify the true reasons of black failure.

They have had decades of affirmative action which is reversed discrimination. Whites and Asians are the ones who suffer institutional discrimination as a result. Especially in the university admission.

The white people responsible for slavery and Jim Crow laws are mostly dead. The majority of white people suffering the handicap of affirmative action were not responsible of past sins. Has it helped the black community? No. Time for affirmative action to die.

Blacks must stop using the excuse of racism to explain away their failure. Only then will they succeed.

..........................................

How do I know? Africa is desperately poor, has diseases, corruption and suffered wars. Of course the lives of black Americans are better than the lives of Africans.
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Milo
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by Milo » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:44 am

Many blacks have lost huge assets due to discrimination and a lack of access to justice.
In the 45 years following the Civil War, freed
 slaves and their descendants accumulated roughly 15 million acres of land across the United States, most of it in the South. Land ownership meant stability and opportunity for black families, a shot at upward mobility and economic security for future generations. The hard-won property was generally used for farming, the primary occupation of most Southern blacks in the early 20th century. By 1920, there were 925,000 black-owned farms, representing about 14 percent of all farms in the United States.

Over the course of the 20th century, however, that number dropped precipitously. Millions of farmers of all races were pushed off their land in the early part of the century, including around 600,000 black farmers. By 1975, just 45,000 black-owned farms remained. “It was almost as if the earth was opening up and swallowing black farmers,” writes scholar Pete Daniel in his book Dispossession: Discrimination Against African American Farmers in the Age of Civil Rights. Implicit in the decline of black farming was the loss of the land those farmers once tilled. Today, African Americans compose less than 2 percent of the nation’s farmers and 1 percent of its 
rural landowners.

Many factors contributed to the loss of black-owned land during the 20th century, including systemic discrimination in lending by the US Department of Agriculture, the industrialization that lured workers into factories, and the Great Migration. But the lesser-known issue of heirs’ property also played a role, allowing untold thousands of acres to be forcibly bought out from under black rural families—often second-, third-, or fourth-generation landowners whose ancestors were 
enslaved—by real-estate developers and speculators.

By one estimate, 81 percent of these early black landowners didn’t make wills, largely due to a lack of access to legal resources. Their descendants then inherited the land without a clear title, and it thereby became designated as heirs’ property. Although heirs’ property exists in many regions of the country, it’s most prevalent in low-income communities. In the South, according to one estimate, more than 50 percent of heirs’-property owners are African-American, many of them the descendants of slaves and sharecroppers. The Center for Heirs’ Property Preservation, based in Charleston County, South Carolina, estimates that there are 105,000 acres of heirs’ property in its 15-county service area alone.

“The property that we owned was prime property. Over time, it’s been sold and traded and stolen.”—Gullah native Alex Brown.

Without a clear title, heirs’-property owners are limited in what they can do with their land. They can’t get mortgages or do extensive repairs on their homes; as a consequence, some live in trailers. They aren’t eligible to apply for state or federal housing aid (such as funds provided by the Federal Emergency Management Agency) or for nearly any of the programs administered by the Department of Agriculture, including the crucial loans and conservation funding that keep many rural landowners afloat. “So [they’re] already hampered because [they] have heirs’ property,” explains Jennie L. Stephens, the executive director of the center, “but now [they’re] sitting here with these hundreds of acres, and [they] can’t do anything with it.”

As with the Allen family, heirs’ property is often jointly owned by many descendants, some of whom are scattered across the country and may never have met one another. Each has a claim to the land, but this type of joint ownership makes them vulnerable to a peculiar legal challenge: Any one of these co-owners has the legal right to sell their share of the property—or even to bring the whole parcel of land to court-ordered auction—without the consent of the others.
https://www.thenation.com/article/afric ... ost-acres/

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Re: A black American lament.

Post by Doc » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:03 am

Milo wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:44 am
Many blacks have lost huge assets due to discrimination and a lack of access to justice.
In the 45 years following the Civil War, freed
 slaves and their descendants accumulated roughly 15 million acres of land across the United States, most of it in the South. Land ownership meant stability and opportunity for black families, a shot at upward mobility and economic security for future generations. The hard-won property was generally used for farming, the primary occupation of most Southern blacks in the early 20th century. By 1920, there were 925,000 black-owned farms, representing about 14 percent of all farms in the United States.

Over the course of the 20th century, however, that number dropped precipitously. Millions of farmers of all races were pushed off their land in the early part of the century, including around 600,000 black farmers. By 1975, just 45,000 black-owned farms remained. “It was almost as if the earth was opening up and swallowing black farmers,” writes scholar Pete Daniel in his book Dispossession: Discrimination Against African American Farmers in the Age of Civil Rights. Implicit in the decline of black farming was the loss of the land those farmers once tilled. Today, African Americans compose less than 2 percent of the nation’s farmers and 1 percent of its 
rural landowners.

Many factors contributed to the loss of black-owned land during the 20th century, including systemic discrimination in lending by the US Department of Agriculture, the industrialization that lured workers into factories, and the Great Migration. But the lesser-known issue of heirs’ property also played a role, allowing untold thousands of acres to be forcibly bought out from under black rural families—often second-, third-, or fourth-generation landowners whose ancestors were 
enslaved—by real-estate developers and speculators.

By one estimate, 81 percent of these early black landowners didn’t make wills, largely due to a lack of access to legal resources. Their descendants then inherited the land without a clear title, and it thereby became designated as heirs’ property. Although heirs’ property exists in many regions of the country, it’s most prevalent in low-income communities. In the South, according to one estimate, more than 50 percent of heirs’-property owners are African-American, many of them the descendants of slaves and sharecroppers. The Center for Heirs’ Property Preservation, based in Charleston County, South Carolina, estimates that there are 105,000 acres of heirs’ property in its 15-county service area alone.

“The property that we owned was prime property. Over time, it’s been sold and traded and stolen.”—Gullah native Alex Brown.

Without a clear title, heirs’-property owners are limited in what they can do with their land. They can’t get mortgages or do extensive repairs on their homes; as a consequence, some live in trailers. They aren’t eligible to apply for state or federal housing aid (such as funds provided by the Federal Emergency Management Agency) or for nearly any of the programs administered by the Department of Agriculture, including the crucial loans and conservation funding that keep many rural landowners afloat. “So [they’re] already hampered because [they] have heirs’ property,” explains Jennie L. Stephens, the executive director of the center, “but now [they’re] sitting here with these hundreds of acres, and [they] can’t do anything with it.”

As with the Allen family, heirs’ property is often jointly owned by many descendants, some of whom are scattered across the country and may never have met one another. Each has a claim to the land, but this type of joint ownership makes them vulnerable to a peculiar legal challenge: Any one of these co-owners has the legal right to sell their share of the property—or even to bring the whole parcel of land to court-ordered auction—without the consent of the others.
https://www.thenation.com/article/afric ... ost-acres/
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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cassowary
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by cassowary » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:08 pm

Doc wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:03 am
Milo wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:44 am
Many blacks have lost huge assets due to discrimination and a lack of access to justice.
In the 45 years following the Civil War, freed
 slaves and their descendants accumulated roughly 15 million acres of land across the United States, most of it in the South. Land ownership meant stability and opportunity for black families, a shot at upward mobility and economic security for future generations. The hard-won property was generally used for farming, the primary occupation of most Southern blacks in the early 20th century. By 1920, there were 925,000 black-owned farms, representing about 14 percent of all farms in the United States.

Over the course of the 20th century, however, that number dropped precipitously. Millions of farmers of all races were pushed off their land in the early part of the century, including around 600,000 black farmers. By 1975, just 45,000 black-owned farms remained. “It was almost as if the earth was opening up and swallowing black farmers,” writes scholar Pete Daniel in his book Dispossession: Discrimination Against African American Farmers in the Age of Civil Rights. Implicit in the decline of black farming was the loss of the land those farmers once tilled. Today, African Americans compose less than 2 percent of the nation’s farmers and 1 percent of its 
rural landowners.

Many factors contributed to the loss of black-owned land during the 20th century, including systemic discrimination in lending by the US Department of Agriculture, the industrialization that lured workers into factories, and the Great Migration. But the lesser-known issue of heirs’ property also played a role, allowing untold thousands of acres to be forcibly bought out from under black rural families—often second-, third-, or fourth-generation landowners whose ancestors were 
enslaved—by real-estate developers and speculators.

By one estimate, 81 percent of these early black landowners didn’t make wills, largely due to a lack of access to legal resources. Their descendants then inherited the land without a clear title, and it thereby became designated as heirs’ property. Although heirs’ property exists in many regions of the country, it’s most prevalent in low-income communities. In the South, according to one estimate, more than 50 percent of heirs’-property owners are African-American, many of them the descendants of slaves and sharecroppers. The Center for Heirs’ Property Preservation, based in Charleston County, South Carolina, estimates that there are 105,000 acres of heirs’ property in its 15-county service area alone.

“The property that we owned was prime property. Over time, it’s been sold and traded and stolen.”—Gullah native Alex Brown.

Without a clear title, heirs’-property owners are limited in what they can do with their land. They can’t get mortgages or do extensive repairs on their homes; as a consequence, some live in trailers. They aren’t eligible to apply for state or federal housing aid (such as funds provided by the Federal Emergency Management Agency) or for nearly any of the programs administered by the Department of Agriculture, including the crucial loans and conservation funding that keep many rural landowners afloat. “So [they’re] already hampered because [they] have heirs’ property,” explains Jennie L. Stephens, the executive director of the center, “but now [they’re] sitting here with these hundreds of acres, and [they] can’t do anything with it.”

As with the Allen family, heirs’ property is often jointly owned by many descendants, some of whom are scattered across the country and may never have met one another. Each has a claim to the land, but this type of joint ownership makes them vulnerable to a peculiar legal challenge: Any one of these co-owners has the legal right to sell their share of the property—or even to bring the whole parcel of land to court-ordered auction—without the consent of the others.
https://www.thenation.com/article/afric ... ost-acres/
Comment no. 1

The backdrop behind the speaker looks like something out of Africa. I just told neverfail that black Americans are better of than Africans. Perhaps the blacks living under African standards are in Democrat controlled cities.

Comment no. 2

The speaker obviously cares for his community because he is delivering an unpopular message. Don’t blamed racism because blacks have been in charge of Baltimore for the past 20 years.

That’s painful to admit. It requires black people to say what did we do wrong. Blaming it on white people is soothing to one’s ego. That’s the easy way for democrat Politicians to take because they don’t care for their voters. All they want is power, money and in some cases girls.

Telling an unpopular painful truth is a sign the speaker really cares for his people because the truth will set them free.

Comment three

Years after slavery had been abolished, blacks are still in chains. They are in chains to the Democrat party, the party of slavery and the KKK. Funny how the more things change the more they remain the same.
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by neverfail » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:32 am

cassowary wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:08 pm


Comment three

Years after slavery had been abolished, blacks are still in chains. They are in chains to the Democrat party, the party of slavery and the KKK. Funny how the more things change the more they remain the same.
Reality check.

It was certainly true that before the Civil war the Democrats were the party of the southern slave owner interest and that even until the time when JFK was President the polyglot Democrats the Democrats Party incorporated an influential Dixie wing whose power base was the notorious Good Old Boys network in the former Confederacy. Other element included unionist Labour in the northern states and the ethnic Irish-American (shades of Tammany Hall?) "machine" dominant in cities like Boston and Chicago - with whom the Kennedy's were associated.

Fair to say that the US democrats has historically been the vehicle into politics for all major groups of traditional "outsiders" in the American scheme of things while the Republicans serve as the party of "insiders" - the traditional party of America's WASP establishment.

After the Civil War despite white southerners being overwhelmingly WASP in heritage and disposition they, their values and inherited sense of victim-hood (we were done over by those damn-Yankees) made them very much American "outsiders" (a lot like the Irish-Catholics and - moving further down the social pecking order still - the blacks).

But Cassowary, you either have not noticed or else (more likely) have deliberately ignored the fact that this old alliance broke down in the aftermath of the 1960's black civil rights push. LBJ became turncoat-traitor towards his own past association with the Dixie Old Boys Network (which apparently gave him his own start in politics) by throwing his administration's weight behind the cause of black rights. It split the Democrats Party.

In reaction against the betrayal of their century old, hidebound position of maintaining the status of blacks as second class citizens, the former Confederacy has been staunchly Republican ever since.

As the white southerners moved out the blacks moved in. I don't believe that they are hoodwinked fools for having done so either.
......................................................................................................................

Cassowary: the fact that you have for years of posting on this website ignored that massive shift in then political allegiance of white southerners in recent history moves me to wonder whether you are plain ignorant of your facts (in which case you have no business posting on this website as though your views had authority) or else you are deliberately misrepresenting the Democrats party for the sake of scoring nebulous political points: like some low political candidate attempting to lie his way into elected office by slandering the reputation of his opponents.

So what exactly are you Cassowary: a fool or a liar?

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Re: A black American lament.

Post by cassowary » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:23 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:32 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:08 pm


Comment three

Years after slavery had been abolished, blacks are still in chains. They are in chains to the Democrat party, the party of slavery and the KKK. Funny how the more things change the more they remain the same.
Reality check.

It was certainly true that before the Civil war the Democrats were the party of the southern slave owner interest and that even until the time when JFK was President the polyglot Democrats the Democrats Party incorporated an influential Dixie wing whose power base was the notorious Good Old Boys network in the former Confederacy. Other element included unionist Labour in the northern states and the ethnic Irish-American (shades of Tammany Hall?) "machine" dominant in cities like Boston and Chicago - with whom the Kennedy's were associated.

Fair to say that the US democrats has historically been the vehicle into politics for all major groups of traditional "outsiders" in the American scheme of things while the Republicans serve as the party of "insiders" - the traditional party of America's WASP establishment.

After the Civil War despite white southerners being overwhelmingly WASP in heritage and disposition they, their values and inherited sense of victim-hood (we were done over by those damn-Yankees) made them very much American "outsiders" (a lot like the Irish-Catholics and - moving further down the social pecking order still - the blacks).

But Cassowary, you either have not noticed or else (more likely) have deliberately ignored the fact that this old alliance broke down in the aftermath of the 1960's black civil rights push. LBJ became turncoat-traitor towards his own past association with the Dixie Old Boys Network (which apparently gave him his own start in politics) by throwing his administration's weight behind the cause of black rights. It split the Democrats Party.

In reaction against the betrayal of their century old, hidebound position of maintaining the status of blacks as second class citizens, the former Confederacy has been staunchly Republican ever since.

As the white southerners moved out the blacks moved in. I don't believe that they are hoodwinked fools for having done so either.
......................................................................................................................

Cassowary: the fact that you have for years of posting on this website ignored that massive shift in then political allegiance of white southerners in recent history moves me to wonder whether you are plain ignorant of your facts (in which case you have no business posting on this website as though your views had authority) or else you are deliberately misrepresenting the Democrats party for the sake of scoring nebulous political points: like some low political candidate attempting to lie his way into elected office by slandering the reputation of his opponents.

So what exactly are you Cassowary: a fool or a liar?
Neither Neverfail. I belong to the third category, the truth teller. What I was pointing out is obvious. The Democrat party remains the party that screws the black community. Baltimore is exhibit A. Democrats have political power in Baltimore for more than 20 years. The result is poverty, rat infested homes and crime.
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Doc
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by Doc » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:11 pm

cassowary wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:08 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:03 am
Milo wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:44 am
Many blacks have lost huge assets due to discrimination and a lack of access to justice.
In the 45 years following the Civil War, freed
 slaves and their descendants accumulated roughly 15 million acres of land across the United States, most of it in the South. Land ownership meant stability and opportunity for black families, a shot at upward mobility and economic security for future generations. The hard-won property was generally used for farming, the primary occupation of most Southern blacks in the early 20th century. By 1920, there were 925,000 black-owned farms, representing about 14 percent of all farms in the United States.

Over the course of the 20th century, however, that number dropped precipitously. Millions of farmers of all races were pushed off their land in the early part of the century, including around 600,000 black farmers. By 1975, just 45,000 black-owned farms remained. “It was almost as if the earth was opening up and swallowing black farmers,” writes scholar Pete Daniel in his book Dispossession: Discrimination Against African American Farmers in the Age of Civil Rights. Implicit in the decline of black farming was the loss of the land those farmers once tilled. Today, African Americans compose less than 2 percent of the nation’s farmers and 1 percent of its 
rural landowners.

Many factors contributed to the loss of black-owned land during the 20th century, including systemic discrimination in lending by the US Department of Agriculture, the industrialization that lured workers into factories, and the Great Migration. But the lesser-known issue of heirs’ property also played a role, allowing untold thousands of acres to be forcibly bought out from under black rural families—often second-, third-, or fourth-generation landowners whose ancestors were 
enslaved—by real-estate developers and speculators.

By one estimate, 81 percent of these early black landowners didn’t make wills, largely due to a lack of access to legal resources. Their descendants then inherited the land without a clear title, and it thereby became designated as heirs’ property. Although heirs’ property exists in many regions of the country, it’s most prevalent in low-income communities. In the South, according to one estimate, more than 50 percent of heirs’-property owners are African-American, many of them the descendants of slaves and sharecroppers. The Center for Heirs’ Property Preservation, based in Charleston County, South Carolina, estimates that there are 105,000 acres of heirs’ property in its 15-county service area alone.

“The property that we owned was prime property. Over time, it’s been sold and traded and stolen.”—Gullah native Alex Brown.

Without a clear title, heirs’-property owners are limited in what they can do with their land. They can’t get mortgages or do extensive repairs on their homes; as a consequence, some live in trailers. They aren’t eligible to apply for state or federal housing aid (such as funds provided by the Federal Emergency Management Agency) or for nearly any of the programs administered by the Department of Agriculture, including the crucial loans and conservation funding that keep many rural landowners afloat. “So [they’re] already hampered because [they] have heirs’ property,” explains Jennie L. Stephens, the executive director of the center, “but now [they’re] sitting here with these hundreds of acres, and [they] can’t do anything with it.”

As with the Allen family, heirs’ property is often jointly owned by many descendants, some of whom are scattered across the country and may never have met one another. Each has a claim to the land, but this type of joint ownership makes them vulnerable to a peculiar legal challenge: Any one of these co-owners has the legal right to sell their share of the property—or even to bring the whole parcel of land to court-ordered auction—without the consent of the others.
https://www.thenation.com/article/afric ... ost-acres/
Comment no. 1

The backdrop behind the speaker looks like something out of Africa. I just told neverfail that black Americans are better of than Africans. Perhaps the blacks living under African standards are in Democrat controlled cities.

Comment no. 2

The speaker obviously cares for his community because he is delivering an unpopular message. Don’t blamed racism because blacks have been in charge of Baltimore for the past 20 years.

That’s painful to admit. It requires black people to say what did we do wrong. Blaming it on white people is soothing to one’s ego. That’s the easy way for democrat Politicians to take because they don’t care for their voters. All they want is power, money and in some cases girls.

Telling an unpopular painful truth is a sign the speaker really cares for his people because the truth will set them free.

Comment three

Years after slavery had been abolished, blacks are still in chains. They are in chains to the Democrat party, the party of slavery and the KKK. Funny how the more things change the more they remain the same.
They call it the inner city plantation. The history is a lot more complicated than it seems. For Example black people mostly became democrats in the 1930's because of FDR's New Deal. From that point forward 70% of black voters were Democrats. They switched as a matter of survival as the chances of local democratic officials allowing them to get help from the New Deal were pretty much zero if they were registered as republicans. This was after 15 to 20 years of resurgence of the KKK. They had no defense against this and the republicans of the 1920's let them down. Not that they were active participants but that after decades of Democrats pushing to undue the results of the civil war they gave up.



NYC 1924:
2des7j.jpg
2des7j.jpg (122.63 KiB) Viewed 60 times
The real issue as I see it is that the Democratic party was not banned after the civil war. The president at the end of the war was a Democrat. (after Lincoln's assassination) In the south of the US the Forth of July was not celebrated anywhere until 1898 with the Spanish American war. In some places it was not celebrated until the 1960's. Somewhere in that help for Black former slaves and their offspring was forgotten
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by neverfail » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:17 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:23 am


Neither Neverfail. I belong to the third category, the truth teller. What I was pointing out is obvious. The Democrat party remains the party that screws the black community. Baltimore is exhibit A. Democrats have political power in Baltimore for more than 20 years. The result is poverty, rat infested homes and crime.
I publish the big picture Cass which you apparently choose to ignore. Baltimore is just one city out of hundreds across the USA. With a black majority population The Democrats Party machine in Baltimore would have to be black controlled. So you might as well blame it on black petty corruption rather than use it as a pretext to tar the entire Democrats movement with the same brush.

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