A black American lament.

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cassowary
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by cassowary » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:07 pm

Why the black community in both the US and Africa seems to produce more kids born out of wedlock is a controversial subject which we should be bold enough to tackle, if you are interested.
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neverfail
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by neverfail » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:56 pm

cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:14 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:09 pm
American Wealth Is Broken

My family is a success story. We’re also evidence of the long odds African Americans face on the path to success.


"It would take two centuries for black wealth to catch up to white wealth—if white wealth stopped growing".

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/arch ... es/593719/
Neverfail,

The writer has a chip on her shoulder, just like my black American friend.
Well no Cassowary, I did not get that impression myself. But regardless of whether she had that particular personality disorder or not I think that she put up a lucid, well considered explanation for black American backwardness.

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Re: A black American lament.

Post by neverfail » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:12 pm

cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:03 pm
... continued

A segment of the black population is resentful to past injustices and believe their current poverty is result of the white man. But black people were not the only ones being discriminated in America. The Chinese were discriminated when they first came in the 19th century to build the rail roads. They got over that and are today a prosperous community in America. So were the Jews and Irish when they first came, lest you think that only non-whites were discriminated.

Image

I think the continued failure of the black community after decades of affirmative action is humiliating to the community. So they cannot admit that it is their own fault. Always blaming whitey and not acknowledging their own failures will lead to wrong diagnoses and policy prescriptions.

Growing number of black kids born out of wedlock is also problem in South Africa where half of black kids have absentee fathers.
Hence we need to take stock of the fact growing without a father is more common within black communities than any other racial group in South Africa [population ratio accounted for]. According to a study conducted by Human Sciences Research Council (HSRC) and the South African Race Relations Institute (SARRI), "you are far more likely to be raised in a single-parent household if you are both black and poor.
The symptoms caused by the absence manifests differently amongst the respective genders, but regardless, most young people are likely to react destructively in situations where they don't have a positive male role model to learn from. Fatherlessness serves as the start to a snowball effect that results in a generation of young adults who are 'social misfits'. Research has found that "boys growing up in absent father households are more likely to display hyper masculine behaviour, including different forms of aggression", getting involved in unhealthy relationships, crime and addiction.
This article was written by a black woman just like Neverfail's article. But she is from South Africa where black people form a majority. So she can't claim continued discrimination as a cause of the problems the black community faces. This gives a more honest approach and she recognizes that a family with absentee fathers is unhealthy for the community. This honest appraisal must sure lead to a more correct policy prescription.
Yes, members of other ethnic groups were discriminated against (it happened to the Irish in my country too) but never for as long and in the ways that the Afros were. The first Chinese to arrive in the USA (for instance) might have arrived as indentured laborers to work on the California end of the Union Pacific railroad but that all they were; not lifelong slaves. Their bondage was only of finite length and once expired they were free to carve out the best lives they could in their new country.

According to former contributor Booklady's Ghost black American families hung together quite well until the upheavals of the 1960's and then for reasons not adequately explained they subsequently came apart. I sometimes wonder whether this past record of black family solidarity was an almost predictable response to oppression and once the oppression was removed so was the need for the group solidarity.

By the way, I agree absolutely that as a rule the child who grows up in a one parent home is usually handicapped for life. Some individuals manage to overcome this handicap and still end up living normal, contented lives but unfortunately many do not.

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cassowary
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by cassowary » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:13 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:12 pm

By the way, I agree absolutely that as a rule the child who grows up in a one parent home is usually handicapped for life. Some individuals manage to overcome this handicap and still end up living normal, contented lives but unfortunately many do not.

Well, I submit that the absentee father is the most important cause of why Afro Americans have not caught up. It is not discrimination. Nothing in that essay which you linked to point this out at least as a partial cause. It was always blame racism. This is a crutch and a distraction. It deviates the community away from solving its problems by blaming others.

Notice that the essay I linked to (from a black South African lady) tackled the same problem courageously and honestly. She avoided the temptation of blaming it on the years of Apartheid that black South Africans were subjected to. She did not have a chip on her shoulder unlike the black American lady from your link.
Last edited by cassowary on Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by cassowary » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:29 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:12 pm

According to former contributor Booklady's Ghost black American families hung together quite well until the upheavals of the 1960's and then for reasons not adequately explained they subsequently came apart. I sometimes wonder whether this past record of black family solidarity was an almost predictable response to oppression and once the oppression was removed so was the need for the group solidarity.
I blame it on the welfare state. Johnson's Great Society programs created black dependency. Prior to that, the black community should economic advancement. Once the Great Society greatly expanded the welfare state, progress stagnated.

Why we must be bold on welfare reform ... by a Kay James
This history is so important for policymakers to consider because it helps make sense of the harm done to the African-American community since then by liberal policies like welfare. Consider: Since the so-called War on Poverty was launched more than 50 years ago:

Our marriage rate has plummeted, and the number of out-of-wedlock births has soared.
Children are being raised without the security of an intact family or having ever even experienced parental marriage.

Fathers are routinely rejecting their responsibilities, increasing their children’s risk of living in poverty.
Nearly 1 million black boys and girls are being raised by a grandparent, often because their parents suffer from drug abuse, have passed away, or are in prison.
As Kim Holmes of The Heritage Foundation wrote in his book “Rebound”: “The welfare state … substitute[d] a check for a father, a social worker for a caring mother or grandmother, and a slew of civil rights organizations for the neighborhood church.”
It is the failed policies promoted by the left thaf caused the problem.
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Re: More than A black American lament.

Post by neverfail » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:45 am

cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:29 am
neverfail wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:12 pm

According to former contributor Booklady's Ghost black American families hung together quite well until the upheavals of the 1960's and then for reasons not adequately explained they subsequently came apart. I sometimes wonder whether this past record of black family solidarity was an almost predictable response to oppression and once the oppression was removed so was the need for the group solidarity.
I blame it on the welfare state.
You would Cassowary - and I believe that as usual you are bullshitting yourself on along with your readers on this matter. I would like to assure you that you do not know what you are fucking-well talking about.

The "Great Society" welfare improvement could not have been so lavish in its payments that blacks found they gained more by giving up gainful employment en mass in favour of going on welfare. America has never been noted as a land of lavish welfare support. Given the pittance that governments normally pay recipients, welfare is what you normally go on as a last resort.

Welfare is like a life ring that you grab so you do not drown in the Ocean. It is not (as you persist in picturing it) a cushy air mattress to recline on in a gorgeous swimming pool.

You believe otherwise because over the years you seem to have apparently soaked up lying propaganda, unsubstantiated allegations, by those with an axe to grind on both social welfare and blacks. Apart from those with political motives to attack the memory of the Johnson administration and its achievements; such garbage is normally believed and perpetrated by mean spirited individuals envious that someone else is getting something that they are not.

I only hope that you are not one of them Cass. The country you live in in not exactly noted for its generosity in social welfare spending.

In the USA something else was likely to have been happening impinging on the fortunes of blacks coincidentally with the Johnson welfare state initiates but not caused by these - like declining numbers of paid job opportunities with living wages and salaries available to blacks - especially to black men (male breadwinners) with low level skills.

That would more likely explain the disintegration of the black family since. Apart from the loss of income there was also the loss of self-esteem that goes with loss of gainful employment.

But of course having never had this experience during your entire privileged earthly existence I can tell that you are utterly clueless about what this tragedy can do to a person - and therefore in no position to pass harsh judgement. I, by the way have had this experience a couple of times in my life which is why I normally feel so mad when I read your callous views on this.
Last edited by neverfail on Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: More than A black American lament.

Post by neverfail » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:11 am

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Milo
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by Milo » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:51 am

In any event, there's no possible way to make millions of men take up their parenting responsibilities. If we want to talk about solutions they should be possible ones.

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Re: A black American lament.

Post by neverfail » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:42 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:13 am
neverfail wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:12 pm

By the way, I agree absolutely that as a rule the child who grows up in a one parent home is usually handicapped for life. Some individuals manage to overcome this handicap and still end up living normal, contented lives but unfortunately many do not.

Well, I submit that the absentee father is the most important cause of why Afro Americans have not caught up. It is not discrimination. Nothing in that essay which you linked to point this out at least as a partial cause. It was always blame racism. This is a crutch and a distraction. It deviates the community away from solving its problems by blaming others.

Notice that the essay I linked to (from a black South African lady) tackled the same problem courageously and honestly. She avoided the temptation of blaming it on the years of Apartheid that black South Africans were subjected to. She did not have a chip on her shoulder unlike the black American lady from your link.
One particular individual can do it if he/she can develop the needed spiritual rebound to conquer a toxic legacy but entire communities do not seem to work the same way. On that count I did not get the impression that the black American writer personally blamed her own travails on white racism but instead presented a quite plausible historical explanation as to why the sector of American society she is unavoidably part of by birth lags so far behind. Those poor bastards have had the cards stacked against them ever since the first shipment of slaves arrived in an American port centuries ago. An American nightmare instead of the American dream. The effects of a nationjal experience like that tend to be cumulative.

What is the solution? I am clueless!

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Doc
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Re: A black American lament.

Post by Doc » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:13 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:04 pm
Doc wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:06 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:42 am
Milo wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:39 am
My father lives in Massachusetts, a relatively progressive state but even there one can see communities segregated by race.

I recently read about American blacks being systematically discriminated against on land title, so that many of them lost huge real property assets.

The problems is, what do you do about it? If people insist on being racist, the only full cure is to wait for them to die. As a lawyer, I know this better than most!

Furthermore, people live much linger now; in times past many bigoted and old fashioned ideas would be gone, today people live almost twice as long as they did 100 years ago.

And certain media and political parties are now completely entrenched in catering to old fogies.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... e-gop.html

America has made real progress in its race relations and it will make much more as time passes but don't expect anything other than the passage of time, a lot of time, to effect it.
Thank you for pointing all of this out Milo. I knew that the USA, like all of the advanced, developed countries, has an ageing population but it had not occurred to me either that Fox News were pandering specifically to this age group or that the Republican Party voter support base might be comprised disproportionately of this generation of oldies.

It makes sense to me. An entire generation of Americans in denial over their own mortality attempting to evade having to face up to it by clinging to the mentality of a now distant youth.

One of these days if they live that long they are bound to get a rude shock when they discover that the World has changed.

Now would you please explain to me Doc what this tweet, apparently from a Caucasian who has done it tough, has to do with Milo's point that the US republican Party has an ageing supporter base?

While we are on the point: I sometimes wonder about the current age profile of your US black minority. Going by the high pro-rata of aborted fetuses I would be surprised if the result were not likewise an ageing and shrinking black population as well.

Now, who does that leave?
I was picking on "White Privilege" If you want someone black to support my counter claims here is but one found in seconds



Milo want to basically claim demographics is with the Democrats. IN the 1960's and 70's it was called "the generation gap" Then they elected Reagan in 1980.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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