June 13th Oil tanker attacks in the Gulf

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neverfail
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Re: Four possible culprits

Post by neverfail » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:01 pm

Alexis wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:08 am

2. Both Khamenei and Trump don't want to risk war. But "hard" and poorly controlled elements of US services or the rest of the United States' clientele - Israel, Saudi Arabia - want to provoke a war between the United States and Iran that they deem in their own interest and have organised a false flag attack
To me that sounds quite plausible Alexis.

All of the below is speculation by me:

Of the two, Saudi Arabia is closest to Iran and most directly threatened by it. It also has direct access to the seas where the attack took place - unlike Israel. But does Saudi Arabia possess the seacraft and skills needed to launch a torpedo attack undetected?

Israel's political strongman, Benjamin Netanyahu, has been spoiling for a fight with Iran - that is, for America to wage war on Iran on Israel's behalf - for years and has done all within his power to manipulate the US into doing just that (with the help of the US Jewish Lobby no less). While the Israelis have an impressive track record of waging war against Arab neighbors, I believe that when it comes to taking on something more formidable they would much prefer the lives of mug goyim (like Americans) be placed in jeopardy rather than their own. Israelis are a lot like the Saudis that way - get others to do the fighting if you can.

Another reason why Israel qualifies as a suspect (recalling some of their previous bits of long distance chutzpah - like the Entebbe rescue in the 1970's) is that they would likely have the technical capability of launching such a snide attack so far from their home base and then quietly melt away unseen.

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Doc
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Re: Four possible culprits

Post by Doc » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:15 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:37 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:18 pm

There are media reports that the US has an Iranian boat on video removing one of the mines that did not explode. IE removing the evidence.
If the US Coast Guard were to discover an unexploded mine floating off your coastline, would it not go to pains to remove it?
That's a stretch
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: Four possible culprits

Post by neverfail » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:20 am

Doc wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:15 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:37 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:18 pm

There are media reports that the US has an Iranian boat on video removing one of the mines that did not explode. IE removing the evidence.
If the US Coast Guard were to discover an unexploded mine floating off your coastline, would it not go to pains to remove it?
That's a stretch
Well, it is plausible that the Iranian counterpart was responsibly performing its duty by removing a navigation hazard of unknown origin from a Gulf shipping lane.

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Doc
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Re: Four possible culprits

Post by Doc » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:49 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:20 am
Doc wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:15 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:37 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:18 pm

There are media reports that the US has an Iranian boat on video removing one of the mines that did not explode. IE removing the evidence.
If the US Coast Guard were to discover an unexploded mine floating off your coastline, would it not go to pains to remove it?
That's a stretch
Well, it is plausible that the Iranian counterpart was responsibly performing its duty by removing a navigation hazard of unknown origin from a Gulf shipping lane.

Apparently these mines were put on the ships in port. The mines exploded in international waters where the Iranians tried to remove an unexplored mine. Purportedly the ship all dock in Iranian ports.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: Four possible culprits

Post by neverfail » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:24 am

Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:49 am

Apparently these mines were put on the ships in port. The mines exploded in international waters where the Iranians tried to remove an unexplored mine. Purportedly the ship all dock in Iranian ports.
Sorry. It seems I was thinking of the wrong sort of mines.

Attempting to remove an unexploded mine was surely self-incriminating. Dumb thing to do, don't you think?
.....................................................................................................................

Meantime:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-14/ ... e/11209948
Japanese ship's owners say reports of mine attack 'false'

But the Japanese ship's operator said sailors on board the Kokuka Courageous saw "flying objects" just before the attack and contradicted the US military account.

Company president Yutaka Katada said he believed the flying objects seen by the sailors could have been bullets, and denied the possibility of mines or torpedoes because the damage was above the ship's waterline.

The footage released by the US earlier appeared to show a mine above the ship's waterline.

However Mr Katada called reports of a mine attack "false".

Mr Katada said crew members also spotted an Iranian naval ship nearby, but did not specify whether that was before or after the attack.
...............................................................................................................

Now why would the Japanese skipper, who was actually on board one of the ships attacked, contradict the "official" US report?

What I saw in the video was a bunch of guys in what looked like a large inflatable boat dressed in what could have been uniforms apparently feeling their way along the hull of a ship. But there was nothing in the shots to prove that these were Iranian revolutionary Guards nor did I get a clear view of any limpet mines being removed.

It could well be fabricated footage. We only have the word of the US government that it is for real.

Gulf of Tonkin incident revisited perhaps?

I hope not!

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Milo
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Re: June 13th Oil tanker attacks in the Gulf

Post by Milo » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:05 am

I think it is not so much the type of ordinance but the capability to deliver it that makes a state actor more likely.

As I have said before, I just wish we would get out of the way and let the Shias and the Sunnis settle things their own way but all the major players have too much invested in the 21st century version of the Great Game, where instead of keeping score by how much land you control, it's keeping score by how much oil you control.

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Re: Four possible culprits

Post by Doc » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:16 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:24 am
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:49 am

Apparently these mines were put on the ships in port. The mines exploded in international waters where the Iranians tried to remove an unexplored mine. Purportedly the ship all dock in Iranian ports.
Sorry. It seems I was thinking of the wrong sort of mines.

Attempting to remove an unexploded mine was surely self-incriminating. Dumb thing to do, don't you think?
Sure unless it is incriminating evidence.
.....................................................................................................................

Meantime:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-14/ ... e/11209948
Japanese ship's owners say reports of mine attack 'false'

But the Japanese ship's operator said sailors on board the Kokuka Courageous saw "flying objects" just before the attack and contradicted the US military account.

Company president Yutaka Katada said he believed the flying objects seen by the sailors could have been bullets, and denied the possibility of mines or torpedoes because the damage was above the ship's waterline.

The footage released by the US earlier appeared to show a mine above the ship's waterline.

However Mr Katada called reports of a mine attack "false".

Mr Katada said crew members also spotted an Iranian naval ship nearby, but did not specify whether that was before or after the attack.
...............................................................................................................

Now why would the Japanese skipper, who was actually on board one of the ships attacked, contradict the "official" US report?

What I saw in the video was a bunch of guys in what looked like a large inflatable boat dressed in what could have been uniforms apparently feeling their way along the hull of a ship. But there was nothing in the shots to prove that these were Iranian revolutionary Guards nor did I get a clear view of any limpet mines being removed.

It could well be fabricated footage. We only have the word of the US government that it is for real.

Gulf of Tonkin incident revisited perhaps?

I hope not!
Clearly the mine being visible to an aircraft in a video indicates it is above the water line. How visible to the crew would a mine just above the water line be?
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Doc
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Re: June 13th Oil tanker attacks in the Gulf

Post by Doc » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:26 am

Milo wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:05 am
I think it is not so much the type of ordinance but the capability to deliver it that makes a state actor more likely.

As I have said before, I just wish we would get out of the way and let the Shias and the Sunnis settle things their own way but all the major players have too much invested in the 21st century version of the Great Game, where instead of keeping score by how much land you control, it's keeping score by how much oil you control.
Supposedly Israel Jordan Egypt and Saudi Arabia have created an alliance against Iran after being pushed to do so by the US. So maybe the Milo doctrine will happen after all.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

Jim the Moron
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Re: June 13th Oil tanker attacks in the Gulf

Post by Jim the Moron » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:56 am

Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:26 am
Milo wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:05 am
I think it is not so much the type of ordinance but the capability to deliver it that makes a state actor more likely.

As I have said before, I just wish we would get out of the way and let the Shias and the Sunnis settle things their own way but all the major players have too much invested in the 21st century version of the Great Game, where instead of keeping score by how much land you control, it's keeping score by how much oil you control.
Supposedly Israel Jordan Egypt and Saudi Arabia have created an alliance against Iran after being pushed to do so by the US. So maybe the Milo doctrine will happen after all.
As well it should . . .

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Doc
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Re: June 13th Oil tanker attacks in the Gulf

Post by Doc » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:47 pm

https://www.theepochtimes.com/iranian-g ... 63537.html
Iranian Gunboats Surrounded Vessel That Rescued Tanker Crew, Detained Sailors
By Ivan Pentchoukov
June 14, 2019 Updated: June 14, 2019

Iranian gunboats surrounded a rescue vessel carrying the crew of the tanker damaged outside the Persian Gulf and ordered the captain to turn over the sailors, Fox News reported, citing American officials.

Hyundai Dubai picked up the sailors from the Front Altair tanker but Iranian gunboats surrounded the ship and demanded that the tanker’s crew be surrendered, the U.S. officials said. The captain of Hyundai Dubai eventually complied with the order.

The 23 crew members are now in Iran. According to an Iranian news agency, 11 of the crew were Russian, 11 Filipino and one Georgian.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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