Venezuela, The Revolution Begins

Discussion of current events
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dagbay
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Re: Venezuela, The Revolution Begins

Post by dagbay » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:16 am

Latest news says that the 41st brigade of the Venezuelian Armed forces defected to the Revolt side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFfcUbOGKE
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

neverfail
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Re: Venezuela, The Revolution Begins

Post by neverfail » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:17 am

dagbay wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:16 am
Latest news says that the 41st brigade of the Venezuelian Armed forces defected to the Revolt side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFfcUbOGKE
No dagbay; that is already stale news. That minor uprising was crushed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08 ... -military/

The fact that it happened at all might be taken as a sign of some ferment within the lower ranks of the Venezuelan army though.

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Doc
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Re: Venezuela, The Revolution Begins

Post by Doc » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:13 pm

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... ier-215467
What’s It Like to See a Democracy Destroyed?

Hannah Dreier spent years covering the implosion of Venezuela. Her takeaway is a sobering one: There’s no rule that says that a miserable situation has to end, just because it’s too miserable.

By SUSAN B. GLASSER

August 07, 2017
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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cassowary
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I told you so. Socialism leads to bankruptcy and dictatorship

Post by cassowary » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:30 pm

Venezuela’s Descent Into Chaos Buries The Left’s Hopes Of ‘Good Socialism’
The terror and repression Chavismo swore to deposit in the dustbin of history have reemerged in its defense, with hit squads intimidating and massacring dissidents while Maduro swats down checks on his power. The equality it promised exists only in the cruelest of terms: equality of want, equality of desperation, equality of misery. A country endowed with bountiful resources has spent and collectivized its way into such abject poverty that it cannot provide its people with food and toilet paper.

neverfail
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Re: democracy is for those who live in comfort?

Post by neverfail » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:42 pm

Doc wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:13 pm
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... ier-215467
What’s It Like to See a Democracy Destroyed?

Hannah Dreier spent years covering the implosion of Venezuela. Her takeaway is a sobering one: There’s no rule that says that a miserable situation has to end, just because it’s too miserable.

By SUSAN B. GLASSER

August 07, 2017
Thanks doc. That is a very good link.

Might I ask you this though? If the United States were to descend into the sort of dysfunction and disorder that Venezuela is enduring just now; do you not believe the government of the day would not strive to assume dictatorial powers to hold the country together? Don't you believe that there would be a popular call in the community for someone to come along and take charge?

Easy to believe in democracy when things are going well.

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Doc
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Re: democracy is for those who live in comfort?

Post by Doc » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:32 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:42 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:13 pm
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... ier-215467
What’s It Like to See a Democracy Destroyed?

Hannah Dreier spent years covering the implosion of Venezuela. Her takeaway is a sobering one: There’s no rule that says that a miserable situation has to end, just because it’s too miserable.

By SUSAN B. GLASSER

August 07, 2017
Thanks doc. That is a very good link.

Might I ask you this though? If the United States were to descend into the sort of dysfunction and disorder that Venezuela is enduring just now; do you not believe the government of the day would not strive to assume dictatorial powers to hold the country together? Don't you believe that there would be a popular call in the community for someone to come along and take charge?

Easy to believe in democracy when things are going well.
State would likely succeed.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Doc
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Re: Venezuela, The Revolution Begins

Post by Doc » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:58 am

It seems Madro's thugs have stopped even pretending they are "for the workers"


http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur ... rt+News%29
Venezuelan Oil Workers Quit En Masse amid Military Takeover
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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cassowary
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Re: Venezuela, The Revolution Begins

Post by cassowary » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:03 am

Doc wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:58 am
It seems Madro's thugs have stopped even pretending they are "for the workers"


http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur ... rt+News%29
Venezuelan Oil Workers Quit En Masse amid Military Takeover
Excerpt from your link:
Following his appointment, Quevedo promised to launch a “crusade” against corruption and pledged to “consolidate the deepening of socialism” through the “total, absolute transformation of PDVSA,”
The moment he promised to deepened Socialism, I know he is going to fail. Why doesn't Maduro simply admit that Socialism does not work? Bring back capitalism.

In a way, I think the Venezuelans got the government they deserved. After all, they voted for Chavez in the first place. Their sin was to think that there is an easy way out. Life is meant to be hard. you can't enjoy a good life without working hard for it. So they fell for that old trick by leftist politicians that your life can be improved by giving you Other People's Money.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul. So greedy and lazy. They don't want to work for it. It serves them right. Venezuela has proven that the ideas in my book to be correct.

When you try to impoverish others with the wealth redistribution nonsense, you end up impoverishing yourself. I think Venezuela's rich know how to escape. Most would have fled by now with some of their money. It is the poor in Venezuela that cannot escape and they are the ones who suffer the most.

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Doc
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Re: Venezuela, The Revolution Begins

Post by Doc » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:20 pm

cassowary wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:03 am
Doc wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:58 am
It seems Madro's thugs have stopped even pretending they are "for the workers"


http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur ... rt+News%29
Venezuelan Oil Workers Quit En Masse amid Military Takeover
Excerpt from your link:
Following his appointment, Quevedo promised to launch a “crusade” against corruption and pledged to “consolidate the deepening of socialism” through the “total, absolute transformation of PDVSA,”
The moment he promised to deepened Socialism, I know he is going to fail. Why doesn't Maduro simply admit that Socialism does not work? Bring back capitalism.

In a way, I think the Venezuelans got the government they deserved. After all, they voted for Chavez in the first place. Their sin was to think that there is an easy way out. Life is meant to be hard. you can't enjoy a good life without working hard for it. So they fell for that old trick by leftist politicians that your life can be improved by giving you Other People's Money.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul. So greedy and lazy. They don't want to work for it. It serves them right. Venezuela has proven that the ideas in my book to be correct.

When you try to impoverish others with the wealth redistribution nonsense, you end up impoverishing yourself. I think Venezuela's rich know how to escape. Most would have fled by now with some of their money. It is the poor in Venezuela that cannot escape and they are the ones who suffer the most.
The wealth distribution model is wealth distribution to the leadership and their families As I recall Chavez's daughter is now one of the richest people in Venezuela is not all of South America. Not bad for the daughter of the leader of a failed coup detat who should have never been allowed to run for public office Much like HItler....
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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cassowary
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Re: Venezuela, The Revolution Begins

Post by cassowary » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:35 pm

Doc wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:20 pm


The wealth distribution model is wealth distribution to the leadership and their families As I recall Chavez's daughter is now one of the richest people in Venezuela is not all of South America. Not bad for the daughter of the leader of a failed coup detat who should have never been allowed to run for public office Much like HItler....
It is true that Chavez's daughter is rich. The Chavez certainly redistributed money to themselves. But those who supported them got their share too. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is always popular because the Peters are always outnumbered by the Pauls. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is the crux of Socialism. It does not work.

But the Peters are not stupid. They are not going to hang around to be robbed. I am pretty sure that most of them have gone to Miami or somewhere else with whatever is left of their capital. Without the Peters to create jobs, the Pauls become poorer than before. And that is what is happening in Venezuela today.

The way to wealth is to teach the Pauls to become Peters. That's the capitalist way.
“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
.......... Benjamin Franklin

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