The Russian Navy is in a sorry state

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Milo
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Re: The Russian Navy is in a sorry state

Post by Milo » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:08 pm

Russia invented the Potemkin village and they still do a lot of business that way.

They can do that if they want but it's the fools that fall for it who are the real problem.

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cassowary
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Re: The Russian Navy is in a sorry state

Post by cassowary » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:59 pm

Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:35 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:59 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:56 am
So what? Russia is a terrestrial, not a maritime, power that does not need a navy to defend itself anyhow. Just an army and an air force.
Then why are they in Syria? I thought they wanted the Syrian port so that they can claim to be a Mediterranean power. Why have a port when you don't have ships for a blue water navy?

It seems to me that Putin does not know what he is doing. What a clown. He spent billions in Syria for what? It would have been better if he used that money to build up his navy. From now on, i will call him, PutPut.
Syria is an advertisement to sell Russian arms.
What did you say? So far, they are showing how lousy Russian arms are.
The Imp :D

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cassowary
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Re: The Russian Navy is in a sorry state

Post by cassowary » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:01 pm

Milo wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:08 pm
Russia invented the Potemkin village and they still do a lot of business that way.

They can do that if they want but it's the fools that fall for it who are the real problem.
Fools like you-know-who here in this forum? :D
The Imp :D

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cassowary
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Re: The Russian Navy is in a sorry state

Post by cassowary » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:02 pm

Alexis wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:57 am
That the Russian Navy is in a sorry state is no news. However, this article exaggerates the problems and some is just factually incorrect.

Examples:
- It states that "The two Kirov class battlecruisers (completed in 1988 and 1998) are being scrapped because there is no money for maintenance and needed refurbishment on the older ship"
:arrow: Wrong. Pyotr Velikiy, the most recent, is in service. Admiral Nakhimov, the oldest, is being rebuilt, the works are proceeding slowly but it should be completed by 2021
- It states about Borei-type SSBNs that "There are now four in service but construction on the other four has been stopped"
:arrow: Wrong. Building of Knyaz Oleg, the fifth of them, is proceeding albeit it was slowed by financing issues plus issues at a subcontractor - which also happens in Western countries. For these reasons, it will be delivered only this year

Some of the issues pointed by the article are real. However, finding factual errors in a text presented as authoritative... does not give too much confidence in the rest ;)

Generally, contemporary Russian Navy:
- Is even more centered on submarines than the late Soviet Navy. SSBN and SSN construction is proceeding, albeit obviously more slowly than in the former USSR or in contemporary USA. Russia is also building rather numerous good classical submarines
- Includes one, soon two, powerful battlecruisers of the Kirov class - its main surface ships
- Along with a rather large number of frigates, which can fire long range cruise missiles
- Doesn't have any operational aircraft carrier, since Kuznetsov was never very much operational to begin with and will now quietly stay in port
- Doesn't have any helicopter carrier - the ones France eventually decided not to deliver were not replaced by any local design
- Doesn't have many destroyers, and doesn't seem to invest much in them

Overall, it is much more comparable to the French or British Navies than to the US Navy - which remains absolutely without any parallel. And it is smaller than the Chinese Navy - Russian is superior to that Navy only for SSNs, where Chinese lag quite a bit.
Thanks for your more accurate information. May I ask where you got your info?
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Re: The Russian Navy is in a sorry state

Post by neverfail » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:13 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:27 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:33 pm

Syria is irrelevant to the defence of mother Russia. Putin may be well advised to curb his great power ambitions in favour of a generation of nation building - as you suggest. However, that does not appear to be the Russian way.
Anything which weakens the US is relevant to the defense of Russia. And in Syria the US becomes weaker by not succeeding in overthrowing Bashar al-Assad. Very much as the result of Russia's intervention in Syria.
Well, I suppose that there is a certain amount of convoluted logic in that Sertorio.

Yet don't you agree that Putin would have achieved more by devoting scarce resources to nation building at home rather than playing Don Quixote and tilting at American windmills abroad?

neverfail
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Re: The Russian Navy is in a sorry state

Post by neverfail » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:19 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:59 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:35 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:59 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:56 am
So what? Russia is a terrestrial, not a maritime, power that does not need a navy to defend itself anyhow. Just an army and an air force.
Then why are they in Syria? I thought they wanted the Syrian port so that they can claim to be a Mediterranean power. Why have a port when you don't have ships for a blue water navy?

It seems to me that Putin does not know what he is doing. What a clown. He spent billions in Syria for what? It would have been better if he used that money to build up his navy. From now on, i will call him, PutPut.
Syria is an advertisement to sell Russian arms.
What did you say? So far, they are showing how lousy Russian arms are.
Well, it cant be said that they were entirely useless. They gave the Israeli Air Force a nice bit of precision bombing practice.

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Sertorio
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Re: The Russian Navy is in a sorry state

Post by Sertorio » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:46 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:19 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:59 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:35 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:59 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:56 am
So what? Russia is a terrestrial, not a maritime, power that does not need a navy to defend itself anyhow. Just an army and an air force.
Then why are they in Syria? I thought they wanted the Syrian port so that they can claim to be a Mediterranean power. Why have a port when you don't have ships for a blue water navy?

It seems to me that Putin does not know what he is doing. What a clown. He spent billions in Syria for what? It would have been better if he used that money to build up his navy. From now on, i will call him, PutPut.
Syria is an advertisement to sell Russian arms.
What did you say? So far, they are showing how lousy Russian arms are.
Well, it cant be said that they were entirely useless. They gave the Israeli Air Force a nice bit of precision bombing practice.
It scares me a bit how some of you keep underestimating Russia and China. Hubris may tempt your countries attempting to confront those countries with military force, with a highly probable disastrous outcome. On the other hand I hope your countries get the lesson you deserve, if you keep stirring trouble.

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Alexis
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Re: The Russian Navy is in a sorry state

Post by Alexis » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:44 am

cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:02 pm
Thanks for your more accurate information. May I ask where you got your info?
Oh, merely a long interest in defence matters :)

I'm not privy to any specific information, although I have often worked for defense-related businesses.

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Alexis
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Re: The Russian Navy is in a sorry state

Post by Alexis » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:51 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:46 am
It scares me a bit how some of you keep underestimating Russia and China. Hubris may tempt your countries attempting to confront those countries with military force, with a highly probable disastrous outcome. On the other hand I hope your countries get the lesson you deserve, if you keep stirring trouble.
That won't happen, don't worry :)

The by far largest military force on Earth can be stopped cold by nuclear weapons, even a small number of them. Check North Korea. The reason is that most US military leaders along with most of American population have not forgotten common wisdom.

That's even truer for countries which have hundreds (China) or thousands (Russia) nuclear weapons, with credible second strike capabilities to boot.

It's true a few US ideologues seem to have lost touch with reality - think Bolton. But that Mr John "Moustache" is fortunately not alone taking decisions ;)

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cassowary
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Re: The Russian Navy is in a sorry state

Post by cassowary » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:55 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:19 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:59 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:35 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:59 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:56 am
So what? Russia is a terrestrial, not a maritime, power that does not need a navy to defend itself anyhow. Just an army and an air force.
Then why are they in Syria? I thought they wanted the Syrian port so that they can claim to be a Mediterranean power. Why have a port when you don't have ships for a blue water navy?

It seems to me that Putin does not know what he is doing. What a clown. He spent billions in Syria for what? It would have been better if he used that money to build up his navy. From now on, i will call him, PutPut.
Syria is an advertisement to sell Russian arms.
What did you say? So far, they are showing how lousy Russian arms are.
Well, it cant be said that they were entirely useless. They gave the Israeli Air Force a nice bit of precision bombing practice.
Hahaha
The Imp :D

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