The Liberation of Venezuela

Discussion of current events
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 3432
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by Doc » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:30 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:38 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:07 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:02 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:42 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:07 am
Venezuela doesn't need aid, it needs the US stopping all sanctions and boycotts, which are the cause of the economic hardship. And if aid were needed, it shouldn't be used to further the fake president's pretensions, and should be dispensed by the Red Cross. But this is not about aid, it is about the Venezuelan people being hostage of unscrupulous politicians in the US.
Just stop. Even the social democrats on this forum know that hardcore socialism utterly failed in Venezuela.
I am not discussing socialism's failures, but the fact that US sanctions, not socialism, is the main cause of Venezuela's problems. Cuba is a lot more socialistic than Venezuela and its problems are minor compared to Venezuela's. If Venezuela could get payment for its oil - which the US is mostly preventing - there wouldn't be any shortages in Venezuela. The question is whether Maduro will find a way to get those oil payments, eventually by not using dollars at all.
Steve is right, Sertorio. It is Socialism that is the cause of Venezuela’s problems and not the sanctions.
Yes. We already know that the Earth is flat...

Image
US Sanctions are most definitely NOT against Venezuela but against INDIVIDUALS in that highly corrupt regime. Your claim that it is "US Sanctions" that is causing the extreme suffering is absolutely false. SO unless you want to argue that interfering with the crooks getting getting their stolen money out of Venezuela is the cause of the complete economic collapse then you have no argument, just hyperbole
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
Posts: 4128
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by neverfail » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:04 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:02 am

I am not discussing socialism's failures, .......
..but every other participant in this forum is, unhappily for you.
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:02 am
but the fact that US sanctions, not socialism, is the main cause of Venezuela's problems.
What makes it a "fact" rather than an allegation Sertorio?

https://theconversation.com/venezuela-u ... own-111280
For instance, their 10,000,000% inflation was not caused by US sanctions.
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:02 am
If Venezuela could get payment for its oil - which the US is mostly preventing - there wouldn't be any shortages in Venezuela.
That's only your wishful thinking Sertorio. Had the regime not opted to impose a command economy on the country instead of retaining a managed market based economy those shortages would not have come about in the first place.

Ignore the elephant in the room if you wish Sertorio. You are only making yourself look foolish.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 2882
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by Sertorio » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:40 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:04 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:02 am

If Venezuela could get payment for its oil - which the US is mostly preventing - there wouldn't be any shortages in Venezuela.
That's only your wishful thinking Sertorio. Had the regime not opted to impose a command economy on the country instead of retaining a managed market based economy those shortages would not have come about in the first place.
Maduro is doing no more than Chavez did, and things were quite normal under Chavez. Because by then Venezuela was getting all the money due it for the sale of oil. The main difference now is that the US is preventing that money reaching Venezuela. Therefore I am justified in thinking that sanctions, rather than socialist policies, are the main cause of Venezuela's problems. And that's the reason why the US imposed those sanctions, to weaken Maduro's regime and force him out. That's the usual US policy, which it has tried against Russia, Iran, North Korea and Syria. Except that with these countries sanctions have failed.

neverfail
Posts: 4128
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by neverfail » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:54 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:40 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:04 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:02 am

If Venezuela could get payment for its oil - which the US is mostly preventing - there wouldn't be any shortages in Venezuela.
That's only your wishful thinking Sertorio. Had the regime not opted to impose a command economy on the country instead of retaining a managed market based economy those shortages would not have come about in the first place.
Maduro is doing no more than Chavez did, and things were quite normal under Chavez. Because by then Venezuela was getting all the money due it for the sale of oil. The main difference now is that the US is preventing that money reaching Venezuela. Therefore I am justified in thinking that sanctions, rather than socialist policies, are the main cause of Venezuela's problems. And that's the reason why the US imposed those sanctions, to weaken Maduro's regime and force him out. That's the usual US policy, which it has tried against Russia, Iran, North Korea and Syria. Except that with these countries sanctions have failed.
US sanctions were first applied only in 2017. The Venezuelan economy was in a state of progressive disintegration well before that.

User avatar
SteveFoerster
Posts: 2060
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:17 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, USA and Dominica, West Indies
Contact:

Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:32 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:40 am
Maduro is doing no more than Chavez did, and things were quite normal under Chavez. Because by then Venezuela was getting all the money due it for the sale of oil.
No, because at that point the regime had not yet run out of things to steal.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 3432
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by Doc » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:30 pm

France 24 English program "The Debate" has had excellent debates on the situation in Venezuela

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 2882
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by Sertorio » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:55 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:32 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:40 am
Maduro is doing no more than Chavez did, and things were quite normal under Chavez. Because by then Venezuela was getting all the money due it for the sale of oil.
No, because at that point the regime had not yet run out of things to steal.
Just out of curiosity, what precisely did the regime steal, and from whom?

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 3432
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by Doc » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:30 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:55 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:32 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:40 am
Maduro is doing no more than Chavez did, and things were quite normal under Chavez. Because by then Venezuela was getting all the money due it for the sale of oil.
No, because at that point the regime had not yet run out of things to steal.
Just out of curiosity, what precisely did the regime steal, and from whom?

THe massive oil profits and from the Venezuelan people. Not all of it but enough to destroy the wealthiest country in South America
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 2882
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by Sertorio » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:22 am

Doc wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:30 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:55 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:32 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:40 am
Maduro is doing no more than Chavez did, and things were quite normal under Chavez. Because by then Venezuela was getting all the money due it for the sale of oil.
No, because at that point the regime had not yet run out of things to steal.
Just out of curiosity, what precisely did the regime steal, and from whom?

THe massive oil profits and from the Venezuelan people. Not all of it but enough to destroy the wealthiest country in South America
And before the regime stole those oil profits, to whom did they belong?...

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 3432
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by Doc » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:57 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:22 am
Doc wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:30 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:55 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:32 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:40 am
Maduro is doing no more than Chavez did, and things were quite normal under Chavez. Because by then Venezuela was getting all the money due it for the sale of oil.
No, because at that point the regime had not yet run out of things to steal.
Just out of curiosity, what precisely did the regime steal, and from whom?

THe massive oil profits and from the Venezuelan people. Not all of it but enough to destroy the wealthiest country in South America
And before the regime stole those oil profits, to whom did they belong?...
The people of Venezuela. Chavez's daughter is now the richest person in Venezuela

http://culturalmarxism.net/socialism-wo ... venezuela/
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

Post Reply