The Liberation of Venezuela

Discussion of current events
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cassowary
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Re: Venezuela blocks humanitarian aid

Post by cassowary » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:37 pm

cassowary wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:56 pm
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... elans.html

That’s your answer. Socialists don’t care about the poor. They just want power.
As I said before, with power comes money. With money comes girls. That's what they are after. Socialists achieve this by pretending to care for the poor.

neverfail
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Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by neverfail » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:52 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:40 pm

You are too pessimistic. I look forward to a multipolar world, where no one dominates. No vacuum to be filled...
I am realistic about power. I do not believe in a fairytale world that will never be.

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Doc
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Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by Doc » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:44 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:23 am
THE US AGGRESSION AGAINST VENEZUELA AS A DIAGNOSTIC TOOL
by The Saker

http://www.unz.com/tsaker/the-us-aggres ... stic-tool/

(...)

I am getting a lot of emails suggesting that Russia might do in Venezuela what she did in Syria. Let me immediately tell you that this is not going to happen. Yes, there are a lot of Russians in Venezuela, but the “Russians are not coming”. For one thing, I will never cease to repeat that the Russian intervention in Syria was a very small one, and that even if this small force proved formidable, it was really acting primarily as a force multiplier for the Iranians, Hezbollah and the Syrian government forces. And yet, even the deployment of this very small force necessitated a huge logistics effort from Russia whose military (being a purely defensive one) is simply not structured for long-distance power projection. Syria is about 1000km from Russia. Venezuela is about 10 times (!) further. Yes, I know,a few Tu-160 visited the country twice now and there are Russian advisors in the country and the Venezuelans have a few pretty good Russian weapons systems. But here, again, this is a game of numbers. Limited numbers of Russian-made combat aircraft (fixed and rotary wing), air defense missiles or even large numbers of advanced MANPADs or assault rifles won’t do the trick against a determined US-Colombian invasion. Finally, there is no Venezuelan equivalent to Iran or Hezbollah (an outside ally and friend) which would be capable and willing to deploy real combat forces for actual, sustained combat against the invader.
Cuba has 20,000 military "advisors" in Venezuela. In effect they are Maduro's security

Next comes terrain. Yes, much of Venezuela is difficult to access, but not for jungle-experienced forces which both the US military and the Colombians have. Furthermore, there is absolutely no need to invade the entire country to topple the legitimate government. For that all you need is to control is a few key facilities in a few key locations and you are done. For example, I don’t see the USAF or USN wasting any time in air-to-air combat against the (few) Venezuelan Sukhois – they will simply destroy them in their hangars along with their runways and air combat management radars and command posts. So the terrain will not prevent the Empire of suppressing Venezuelan air defenses and as soon as this is done, you can expect the usual mix of bomb and missile strikes which will create chaos, wreck command and control capabilities and, basically, disorganize much of the military. Finally, US forces in Colombia and USN ships off the Venezuelan coast will enjoy a safe harbor from which to launch as many strikes as they want.

Next, hopes that Russia and China will somehow resuscitate the Venezuelan economy are also ill-founded. First, neither country is interested in pouring money into a bottomless pit. It is one thing to sign contracts which are likely to eventually produce a return on investment and quite another to dump money into a bottomless pit (as the US and Europe have found out in the Ukraine). Second, the Venezuelan economy is so deeply enmeshed in the US-UK run international financial system that neither China nor Russia can do anything about it. That is not to say that US sanctions, subversion and sabotage did not play a major role in the collapse of the Venezuelan economy, they sure did, but it is equally true (at least to Russian specialists) that many of the Chavista reforms were botched, a lot of them were a case of too little too late, and that it will take years to refloat the Venezuelan economy.

Finally, we are comparing apples to oranges here: the task of the AngloZionists is to destroy the Venezuelan economy while the Chinese and Russian task would be, at least in theory, to rescue it. Destroying is so much easier than building, that the entire comparison is logically flawed and fundamentally unfair.

I really mean no offense to the supporters of Hugo Chavez and his ideals (I very much include myself in this category) but anybody who has been to, or near, Venezuela will tell you that destitute Venezuelans are not only running out of the country in large numbers, but they also contribute to destabilize the neighboring states. So we should have no Pollyannish notions about all the reports about the economic and social collapse in Venezuela as only “US propaganda”. Sadly, much of it is true even if often exaggerated, lopsided and missing all the very real successes of the Chavez reforms, hence the continuous popular support, in spite of it all, the Maduro government continues to enjoy. Still, the overall picture is very bleak and it will take Venezuela consistent and correct action to recover from the current plight.

So is there still hope? Yes, absolutely!

I recently replied the following to a friend asking me about a possible Russian intervention in Venezuela “I place my own hopes not in the Venezuelan military, or in Chinese or Russian help, but on the amazing ability of the Americans to f*** up. At the end of the day, that is our biggest ally: the US stupidity, ignorance, arrogance and cowardice“.

Think of what currently passes as a “policy” of the US in Venezuela as a diagnostic tool.

Not just to diagnose the moral degeneracy and mental pathology of the leaders of the AngloZionist Empire, but also to diagnose the very real state of despair and chaos of the Empire itself. Under Obama, for all his faults and weaknesses, the US succeeded in subverting a list of crucial Latin American countries (like Brazil or Argentina) but now, with Mr MAGA, it can’t even do that. The kind of antics we see from the Pompeo, Bolton & Abrams gang is amazing in its crudeness and, frankly, makes a supposed “indispensable nation” look absolutely ridiculous. These losers already had to fold several times, in spite of equally hyperbolic threats delivered with maximal gravitas (think DPRK here), and yet they still think that crude bullying methods can yield success. They can’t. Immense firepower is not a substitute for brains.

In its short and blood-soaked history, the US has pretty much always acted like some criminal enterprise run by brutal gangsters, but in the past some of these gangsters could be extremely well educated and intelligent (think James Baker here). Today, their guns are still lying around (albeit in various states of disrepair), but they are wielded by ignorant retards. Yes, ignorant retards with guns can be very dangerous, but they can never be effective!

Conclusion

Right now the US, backed by its various colonies and vassal states, appears to be ready to deliver a death blow to Venezuela and, truth be told, they might be able to do just that. But, for whatever it is worth, my gut feeling is that they will fail again, even against the weakest countries of the Axis of Resistance. That is not to say that Venezuela is not in a heap of critical problems. But I believe that in spite of being in a critical condition, Venezuela will be able to bounce back, just like Syria did. After all, the Syrian example proves that it *is* possible to resist a superior invading force while at the same time successfully engaging in critically needed reforms. Yes, today’s Caracas is in very bad shape, but the city of Aleppo was in a much worse shape until it was liberated, and now quasi-normal life has returned to it (in sharp contrast to the US liberated devastated city of Raqqa which still lies in ruins). Yankees (to use the usual Latin-American expression) are just like their Israeli overlords: they are capable of devastating violence but they have no staying power: if things don’t go their way fast, really fast, they run and barricade themselves somewhere faraway from danger. In our case, they might even do what they did in Iraq and Afghanistan: build obscenely huge embassies, create a special zone around them, and sit tight while the country is engulfed in a bloody civil war. This way, they can provide CNN & Co. with footage of a “peaceful neighborhood” while still claiming that the Stars and Strips are still proudly flying high over the enemy’s capital and that “these colors don’t run”. This would be a disastrous outcome for the Venezuelan nation and this is why we all have to try to prevent this, by speaking out before the US further wrecks yet another country.

Hopefully the memory of past completely failed, humiliating and bloody invasions will convince the right people at the Pentagon to do whatever it takes to prevent the US from launching yet another stupid and immoral war of choice on behalf of the Neocons.
This is only the most interesting part of an analysis of the situation in Venezuela, by someone who has been for years a military analyst. I don't think that any of you will agree with him, but it is still worth reading, as it gives a different view on what is happening there.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Sertorio
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Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by Sertorio » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:07 am

Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:44 am

Venezuela doesn't need aid, it needs the US stopping all sanctions and boycotts, which are the cause of the economic hardship. And if aid were needed, it shouldn't be used to further the fake president's pretensions, and should be dispensed by the Red Cross. But this is not about aid, it is about the Venezuelan people being hostage of unscrupulous politicians in the US.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:42 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:07 am
Venezuela doesn't need aid, it needs the US stopping all sanctions and boycotts, which are the cause of the economic hardship. And if aid were needed, it shouldn't be used to further the fake president's pretensions, and should be dispensed by the Red Cross. But this is not about aid, it is about the Venezuelan people being hostage of unscrupulous politicians in the US.
Just stop. Even the social democrats on this forum know that hardcore socialism utterly failed in Venezuela.
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Sertorio
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Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by Sertorio » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:02 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:42 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:07 am
Venezuela doesn't need aid, it needs the US stopping all sanctions and boycotts, which are the cause of the economic hardship. And if aid were needed, it shouldn't be used to further the fake president's pretensions, and should be dispensed by the Red Cross. But this is not about aid, it is about the Venezuelan people being hostage of unscrupulous politicians in the US.
Just stop. Even the social democrats on this forum know that hardcore socialism utterly failed in Venezuela.
I am not discussing socialism's failures, but the fact that US sanctions, not socialism, is the main cause of Venezuela's problems. Cuba is a lot more socialistic than Venezuela and its problems are minor compared to Venezuela's. If Venezuela could get payment for its oil - which the US is mostly preventing - there wouldn't be any shortages in Venezuela. The question is whether Maduro will find a way to get those oil payments, eventually by not using dollars at all.

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cassowary
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Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by cassowary » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:07 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:02 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:42 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:07 am
Venezuela doesn't need aid, it needs the US stopping all sanctions and boycotts, which are the cause of the economic hardship. And if aid were needed, it shouldn't be used to further the fake president's pretensions, and should be dispensed by the Red Cross. But this is not about aid, it is about the Venezuelan people being hostage of unscrupulous politicians in the US.
Just stop. Even the social democrats on this forum know that hardcore socialism utterly failed in Venezuela.
I am not discussing socialism's failures, but the fact that US sanctions, not socialism, is the main cause of Venezuela's problems. Cuba is a lot more socialistic than Venezuela and its problems are minor compared to Venezuela's. If Venezuela could get payment for its oil - which the US is mostly preventing - there wouldn't be any shortages in Venezuela. The question is whether Maduro will find a way to get those oil payments, eventually by not using dollars at all.
Steve is right, Sertorio. It is Socialism that is the cause of Venezuela’s problems and not the sanctions.

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cassowary
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How Socialism failed in Venezuela

Post by cassowary » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:56 pm

Here is a pretty good description of how Socialism failed in Venezuela:
So let's take a look at how Venezuela got the way it got.

It came to socialism in 1998, nearly a decade after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

It was premised on a rejection of IMF fiscal choking as a means of paying off government overspending at a time when oil prices were low. There's plenty to criticize in that, but the solution offered, by Hugo Chavez, who took office in early 1999, is an even bigger disaster.

Chavez got elected democratically.

He ran into trouble when made a lunge for the money, illegally taking over the country's state oil company around 2002 and using its earnings not to keep the business maintained and productive, but as a vehicle for social services spending. You know, like Sweden. He fired the nation's oil experts and brought in politically correct cronies to take their place. "Now, the oil belongs to the people," he thundered.

Getting away with that, it didn't take long for him to start expropriating businesses in the name of 'ending inequality' and handing them over to more socialist cronies in the name of 'the people' too, which did wonders for the investment climate. Homes of "the rich" also were targeted. He changed the constitution to a socialist one, 'for the people' and called his socialist revolution "bolivarian" and said there would be no turning back. All of this would of course lead to a 'sea of happiness' and guys like Oliver Stone, Sean Penn, and Bernie Sanders cheered.

He also started cheating on elections, with electronic device manipulation (hey, it was modern!) and praise from boobs such as Jimmy Carter. A recall referendum on held in 2004 was clearly a product of this manipulation and fraud, and the beginnings of the opposition, led by Maria Corina Machado, began the first inklings of resistance in the name of democracy. No, Alexandria, the people were not confused by about that point. Yet all of this in Venezuela was still recognized as 'democratic socialism,' not the bad kind Fidel Castro enacted, shooting his way into power.

The downward slide continued. Judges were replaced by adherents of socialism and rule of law became subject to rule of socialism, in the name of social justice. Guns were confiscated, in the name of the public good. Free speech was shut down - with newspaper after newspaper going bust for lack of newsprint (they couldn't buy it from abroad because dollars were unobtainable, once again in the name of socialist equality). Television news was even more trashed - with Chavista goons shooting up their news floors (I saw this with my own eyes at Globovision headquarters in Caracas) and Chavista cronies with access to dollars buying up the few that remained. No more free press. All done in the name of the people's own good.

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Sertorio
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Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by Sertorio » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:38 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:07 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:02 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:42 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:07 am
Venezuela doesn't need aid, it needs the US stopping all sanctions and boycotts, which are the cause of the economic hardship. And if aid were needed, it shouldn't be used to further the fake president's pretensions, and should be dispensed by the Red Cross. But this is not about aid, it is about the Venezuelan people being hostage of unscrupulous politicians in the US.
Just stop. Even the social democrats on this forum know that hardcore socialism utterly failed in Venezuela.
I am not discussing socialism's failures, but the fact that US sanctions, not socialism, is the main cause of Venezuela's problems. Cuba is a lot more socialistic than Venezuela and its problems are minor compared to Venezuela's. If Venezuela could get payment for its oil - which the US is mostly preventing - there wouldn't be any shortages in Venezuela. The question is whether Maduro will find a way to get those oil payments, eventually by not using dollars at all.
Steve is right, Sertorio. It is Socialism that is the cause of Venezuela’s problems and not the sanctions.
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cassowary
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Re: The Liberation of Venezuela

Post by cassowary » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:03 pm

Oh, I get it. People who believe in Socialism are like people who believe in a flat earth.

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