Trump’s threats and scoldings have got NATO countries to increase defence spending,

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Trump’s threats and scoldings have got NATO countries to increase defence spending,

Post by SteveFoerster » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:14 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:51 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:03 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:38 am
Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines are not threatened. Their EEZ do not depend on some tiny rocks in the ocean, which may belong to them or not.
Why is the PRC militarising the artificial islands it has built atop of shoals and reefs (at considerable expense) other than to (at the least) intimidate and cow these countries into toeing their policy line?
I don't see any of those countries being intimidated and cowed into toeing China's policy.
No, I'm sure you don't, since the Xi regime isn't the U.S., which is the only evil on this planet you're ideologically capable of seeing.
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:51 am
By the way, what policy are they being cowed into toeing? The only country I know which intimidates and cows other countries into toeing their policies, is the US. As we have seen with Canada and Europe...
They are being cowed into accepting the dissection of their EEZs by ridiculous Chinese claims to the whole South China Sea. This was explained to you already.
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Re: Trump’s threats and scoldings have got NATO countries to increase defence spending,

Post by Sertorio » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:42 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:14 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:51 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:03 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:38 am
Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines are not threatened. Their EEZ do not depend on some tiny rocks in the ocean, which may belong to them or not.
Why is the PRC militarising the artificial islands it has built atop of shoals and reefs (at considerable expense) other than to (at the least) intimidate and cow these countries into toeing their policy line?
I don't see any of those countries being intimidated and cowed into toeing China's policy.
No, I'm sure you don't, since the Xi regime isn't the U.S., which is the only evil on this planet you're ideologically capable of seeing.
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:51 am
By the way, what policy are they being cowed into toeing? The only country I know which intimidates and cows other countries into toeing their policies, is the US. As we have seen with Canada and Europe...
They are being cowed into accepting the dissection of their EEZs by ridiculous Chinese claims to the whole South China Sea. This was explained to you already.
What actual harm are they suffering? (I mean, in respet of their EEZ)

neverfail
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Re: Trump’s threats and scoldings have got NATO countries to increase defence spending,

Post by neverfail » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:19 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:42 am
What actual harm are they suffering? (I mean, in respet of their EEZ)
What harm has the soon-to-be victim of a brutal street mugging suffered while the mugger is still tailing him waiting for the opportunity to strike? Well, none of course for now; but that will change as soon as the intended victim moved into a position where there are no onlookers.

A bunch of reefs and shoals like those of the south China Sea are of too low value to be worthwhile for China to defend in their own right. They are also of no obvious value in the defence of mainland China either. Yet the PRC government is devoting a lot of money and other resources to militarising these. Why? China (like the hypothetical muggerm mentioned above) is positioning itself for the intended crime.

neverfail
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Re: Trump’s threats and scoldings have got NATO countries to increase defence spending,

Post by neverfail » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:23 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:42 am
What actual harm are they suffering? (I mean, in respet of their EEZ)
What harm has the soon-to-be victim of a brutal street mugging suffered while the mugger is still tailing him waiting for the opportunity to strike? Well, none of course for now; but that will change as soon as the intended victim moved into a position where there are no onlookers.

A bunch of reefs and shoals like those of the south China Sea are of too low value to be worthwhile for China to defend in their own right. They are also of no obvious value in the defence of mainland China either. Yet the PRC government is devoting a lot of money and other resources to militarising these. Why? China (like the hypothetical stalking mugger mentioned above) is positioning itself for the intended crime.

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Re: Trump’s threats and scoldings have got NATO countries to increase defence spending,

Post by Doc » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:50 pm

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: Trump’s threats and scoldings have got NATO countries to increase defence spending,

Post by Sertorio » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:38 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:19 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:42 am
What actual harm are they suffering? (I mean, in respet of their EEZ)
What harm has the soon-to-be victim of a brutal street mugging suffered while the mugger is still tailing him waiting for the opportunity to strike? Well, none of course for now; but that will change as soon as the intended victim moved into a position where there are no onlookers.

A bunch of reefs and shoals like those of the south China Sea are of too low value to be worthwhile for China to defend in their own right. They are also of no obvious value in the defence of mainland China either. Yet the PRC government is devoting a lot of money and other resources to militarising these. Why? China (like the hypothetical muggerm mentioned above) is positioning itself for the intended crime.
Condemning someone before he commits any crime, just because you suspect him of wanting to commit a crime is a dangerous precedent. Would you do it in your country in respect of any individual who looks suspicious to you? You just want to justify a confrontational policy in respect of China not because you are threatened, but because you decided to serve the doubtful interests of the US. In a way you are saying that Americans are part of your global tribe, while Chinese are aliens, and you will always side with your tribe against the barbarians. Sounds almost racist to me...

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Re: Trump’s threats and scoldings have got NATO countries to increase defence spending,

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:26 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:38 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:19 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:42 am
What actual harm are they suffering? (I mean, in respet of their EEZ)
What harm has the soon-to-be victim of a brutal street mugging suffered while the mugger is still tailing him waiting for the opportunity to strike? Well, none of course for now; but that will change as soon as the intended victim moved into a position where there are no onlookers.

A bunch of reefs and shoals like those of the south China Sea are of too low value to be worthwhile for China to defend in their own right. They are also of no obvious value in the defence of mainland China either. Yet the PRC government is devoting a lot of money and other resources to militarising these. Why? China (like the hypothetical muggerm mentioned above) is positioning itself for the intended crime.
Condemning someone before he commits any crime, just because you suspect him of wanting to commit a crime is a dangerous precedent. Would you do it in your country in respect of any individual who looks suspicious to you? You just want to justify a confrontational policy in respect of China not because you are threatened, but because you decided to serve the doubtful interests of the US. In a way you are saying that Americans are part of your global tribe, while Chinese are aliens, and you will always side with your tribe against the barbarians. Sounds almost racist to me...
That whole paragraph was just bullshit you made up. He didn't say any of those things at all.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Re: Trump’s threats and scoldings have got NATO countries to increase defence spending,

Post by Milo » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:30 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:26 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:38 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:19 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:42 am
What actual harm are they suffering? (I mean, in respet of their EEZ)
What harm has the soon-to-be victim of a brutal street mugging suffered while the mugger is still tailing him waiting for the opportunity to strike? Well, none of course for now; but that will change as soon as the intended victim moved into a position where there are no onlookers.

A bunch of reefs and shoals like those of the south China Sea are of too low value to be worthwhile for China to defend in their own right. They are also of no obvious value in the defence of mainland China either. Yet the PRC government is devoting a lot of money and other resources to militarising these. Why? China (like the hypothetical muggerm mentioned above) is positioning itself for the intended crime.
Condemning someone before he commits any crime, just because you suspect him of wanting to commit a crime is a dangerous precedent. Would you do it in your country in respect of any individual who looks suspicious to you? You just want to justify a confrontational policy in respect of China not because you are threatened, but because you decided to serve the doubtful interests of the US. In a way you are saying that Americans are part of your global tribe, while Chinese are aliens, and you will always side with your tribe against the barbarians. Sounds almost racist to me...
That whole paragraph was just bullshit you made up. He didn't say any of those things at all.
And there is no presumption of innocence in international law.

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Sertorio
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Re: Trump’s threats and scoldings have got NATO countries to increase defence spending,

Post by Sertorio » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:33 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:26 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:38 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:19 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:42 am
What actual harm are they suffering? (I mean, in respet of their EEZ)
What harm has the soon-to-be victim of a brutal street mugging suffered while the mugger is still tailing him waiting for the opportunity to strike? Well, none of course for now; but that will change as soon as the intended victim moved into a position where there are no onlookers.

A bunch of reefs and shoals like those of the south China Sea are of too low value to be worthwhile for China to defend in their own right. They are also of no obvious value in the defence of mainland China either. Yet the PRC government is devoting a lot of money and other resources to militarising these. Why? China (like the hypothetical muggerm mentioned above) is positioning itself for the intended crime.
Condemning someone before he commits any crime, just because you suspect him of wanting to commit a crime is a dangerous precedent. Would you do it in your country in respect of any individual who looks suspicious to you? You just want to justify a confrontational policy in respect of China not because you are threatened, but because you decided to serve the doubtful interests of the US. In a way you are saying that Americans are part of your global tribe, while Chinese are aliens, and you will always side with your tribe against the barbarians. Sounds almost racist to me...
That whole paragraph was just bullshit you made up. He didn't say any of those things at all.
See neverfail's post above. Are you blind, or just conveniently illiterate?...Or maybe you are just pretending this is not what was implied in his post.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Trump’s threats and scoldings have got NATO countries to increase defence spending,

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:01 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:33 am
See neverfail's post above. Are you blind, or just conveniently illiterate?...Or maybe you are just pretending this is not what was implied in his post.
If you're going to use a word like "racist", you'd better base that on something he said, and not just something you've decided he "implied".
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President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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