My way or the Huawei!

Discussion of current events
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Doc
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Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Doc » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:16 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:51 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:54 am

I do not find everything Tump does bad. He is absolutely right that China was ripping us off for years.
I was under the impression that colonial, imperialist Western countries had ripped China off for centuries...
Not the United States.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 3720
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Sertorio » Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:25 pm

Doc wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:16 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:51 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:54 am

I do not find everything Tump does bad. He is absolutely right that China was ripping us off for years.
I was under the impression that colonial, imperialist Western countries had ripped China off for centuries...
Not the United States.
No?
U.S. Marines in the Boxer Rebellion
https://www.archives.gov/publications/p ... ion-1.html

(...)

U.S. Marines participated in several actions in China after Myers's force reached Peking. Before the siege began, an allied force moved north from Tientsin toward Peking days after a railroad line was torn up, isolating the capital city. Vice Admiral Sir Edward Seymour of the British Royal Navy led this force with U.S. Navy Capt. Bowman McCalla second in command. Seymour's expedition included 112 American sailors and marines. The allied force traveled north, rebuilding the railroad line as they went. Seymour's expedition came within twenty-five miles of Peking but was forced by Boxers and Chinese soldiers to retreat back toward Tientsin. After five days of retreating south, Seymour's force fought its way into a Chinese arsenal six miles north of Tientsin, where they fortified their position and waited for help.

The United States quickly scrambled to send additional troops to help lift the siege of Peking. Two separate detachments of marines left Cavite in the Philippine Islands and joined up near Taku, China. The first detachment consisted of 107 marines from the First Regiment, who left Cavite on USS Solace. The second detachment of thirty-two marines sailed from Cavite aboard the USS Nashville.9 Around June 18, the two marine detachments combined into a battalion under the command of Maj. Littleton W.T. Waller. On the twentieth, this marine battalion and approximately four hundred Russians engaged the Chinese near Tientsin. The marines were the spearhead of the American-Russian attack but had little success against the more substantial Chinese forces. After an overwhelming counterattack, the Americans and Russians retreated. The marines formed the rear guard of the retreat, in which they were pursued for four hours. Ending up where they started, the marines had marched a total of thirty miles after going to Tientsin and back. They suffered three killed and seven wounded.10 Two days later, Waller's battalion and the Russian force were strengthened to two thousand men with the arrival of British, Russian, German, Italian, and Japanese troops. This enlarged force went on the offensive the next day and took all but the inner walled city of Tientsin. On the twenty-fifth, the international force relieved Seymour's expedition, which had been held up for a month at the Hsi-Ku Arsenal north of Tientsin.11

The Ninth U.S. Infantry arrived on July 6 and joined the allied forces near Tientsin. The number of marines in China increased when Col. Robert L. Meade and 318 marines arrived on July 10 from the Philippines aboard the USS Brooklyn.12 This detachment of marines moved from the coast to Tientsin, where it joined Waller's battalion, and Meade took over command of the American forces. The next day, the allied force launched an attack against Tientsin to rid the walled inner city of the remaining Chinese and Boxer forces. The attacking force, under the command of a British general, included the marines, the Ninth U.S. Infantry, and British, French, German, Japanese, and Russian forces. Fighting took place most of the day with little to show for it. Of the 451 marines engaged in this action, seventeen enlisted men and four officers became casualties.13 A Japanese night attack broke through the Chinese defenses, allowing the international force to enter the walled city of Tientsin. This breakthrough triggered widespread looting of the city.

On July 30, U.S. Army Gen. Adna R. Chaffee arrived in Tientsin and took command of all U.S. forces in China.14 Arriving with Chaffee as part of the "China Relief Expedition" was one battalion of marines under the command of Major Biddle, two battalions of the Fourteenth U.S. Infantry, the Sixth U.S. Cavalry, and one battery from the Fifth U.S. Artillery. The expedition's main goal was to relieve the legations in Peking and protect American interests in China. On August 4, the international expedition of approximately 18,000 left Tientsin for Peking; Chaffee's force of approximately 2,500 Americans included 482 marines.15 On August 5, Japanese forces engaged and defeated the Chinese at Pei-tsang. The next day, part of the international force, including the marines, fought successfully at Yangstun. Many members of the international force suffered from heat exhaustion during the eighty-mile march as a result of the high temperatures and occasional fighting from Tientsin to Peking.16

On the fourteenth, the international force reached Peking and relieved the legations. Upon reaching Peking, the marine unit stopped near the north gate while a platoon went to the top of the wall to stop sniper fire and set up protection for the artillery. Two privates and Lt. Smedley Butler were wounded.17 The next day, marines participated in the advance on the Imperial City.18 After fighting in Peking came to an end, light resistance continued in various parts of China. Most of this activity was combated by German troops until the Boxer Protocol (a formal peace treaty) was signed in September 1901.

(...)
Also:
Boxer Protocol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Protocol

The Clauses:

450 million taels of fine silver (around 18,000 tonnes, worth approx. US$333 million or £67 million at the exchange rates of the time) were to be paid as indemnity over a course of 39 years to the eight nations involved.

The Chinese paid the indemnity in gold on a rising scale with a 4% interest charge until the debt was amortized on December 31, 1940. After 39 years, the amount was almost 1 billion taels (precisely 982,238,150), or ≈1,180,000,000 troy ounces (37,000 tonnes) at 1.2 ozt/tael.

The sum was to be distributed as follows: Russia 28.97%, Germany 20.02%, France 15.75%, United Kingdom 11.25%, Japan 7.73%, United States 7.32%, Italy 7.32%, Belgium 1.89%, Austria-Hungary 0.89%, Netherlands 0.17%, Spain 0.03%, Portugal 0.021%, Sweden and Norway 0.014%.

Other clauses included:

To prohibit the importation of arms and ammunition, as well as materials for the production of arms or ammunition for a period of 2 years, extensible further 2 years as the Powers saw necessary.

The destruction of Taku Forts.

Legation Quarters occupied by the Powers shall be considered as a special area reserved for their use under exclusive control, in which Chinese shall not have the right to reside, and which may be defensible. China recognised the right of each Power to maintain a permanent guard in the said Quarters for the defense of its Legation.

Boxer and Government officials were to be punished for crimes or attempted crimes against the foreign Governments or their nationals. Many were either sentenced to execution, deportation to Xinjiang, imprisoned for life, commit suicide, or suffer posthumous degradation.

The "Office in Charge of Affairs of All Nations" (Zongli Yamen) was replaced with a Foreign Office, which ranked above the other six boards in the government.

The Chinese Government was to prohibit forever, under the pain of death, membership in any anti-foreign society, civil service examinations were to be suspended for 5 years in all areas where foreigners were massacred or subjected to cruel treatment, provincial and local officials would personally be held responsible for any new anti-foreign incidents.

The Emperor of China was to convey his regrets to the German Emperor for the assassination of Baron von Ketteler.

The Emperor of China was to appoint Na't'ung to be his Envoy Extraordinary and direct him to also convey to the Emperor of Japan, his expression of regrets and that of his Government at the assassination of Mr. Sugiyama.

The Chinese Government would have to erect on the spot of the assassination of Baron von Ketteler a commemorative arch inscribed in Latin, German, and Chinese.

Concede the right to the Powers to station troops in [several] places.
I would say the US was a major partner in the highjacking of Chinese property and rights...

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 4448
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Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Doc » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:01 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:25 pm
Doc wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:16 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:51 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:54 am

I do not find everything Tump does bad. He is absolutely right that China was ripping us off for years.
I was under the impression that colonial, imperialist Western countries had ripped China off for centuries...
Not the United States.
No?
U.S. Marines in the Boxer Rebellion
https://www.archives.gov/publications/p ... ion-1.html

(...)

U.S. Marines participated in several actions in China after Myers's force reached Peking. Before the siege began, an allied force moved north from Tientsin toward Peking days after a railroad line was torn up, isolating the capital city. Vice Admiral Sir Edward Seymour of the British Royal Navy led this force with U.S. Navy Capt. Bowman McCalla second in command. Seymour's expedition included 112 American sailors and marines. The allied force traveled north, rebuilding the railroad line as they went. Seymour's expedition came within twenty-five miles of Peking but was forced by Boxers and Chinese soldiers to retreat back toward Tientsin. After five days of retreating south, Seymour's force fought its way into a Chinese arsenal six miles north of Tientsin, where they fortified their position and waited for help.

The United States quickly scrambled to send additional troops to help lift the siege of Peking. Two separate detachments of marines left Cavite in the Philippine Islands and joined up near Taku, China. The first detachment consisted of 107 marines from the First Regiment, who left Cavite on USS Solace. The second detachment of thirty-two marines sailed from Cavite aboard the USS Nashville.9 Around June 18, the two marine detachments combined into a battalion under the command of Maj. Littleton W.T. Waller. On the twentieth, this marine battalion and approximately four hundred Russians engaged the Chinese near Tientsin. The marines were the spearhead of the American-Russian attack but had little success against the more substantial Chinese forces. After an overwhelming counterattack, the Americans and Russians retreated. The marines formed the rear guard of the retreat, in which they were pursued for four hours. Ending up where they started, the marines had marched a total of thirty miles after going to Tientsin and back. They suffered three killed and seven wounded.10 Two days later, Waller's battalion and the Russian force were strengthened to two thousand men with the arrival of British, Russian, German, Italian, and Japanese troops. This enlarged force went on the offensive the next day and took all but the inner walled city of Tientsin. On the twenty-fifth, the international force relieved Seymour's expedition, which had been held up for a month at the Hsi-Ku Arsenal north of Tientsin.11

The Ninth U.S. Infantry arrived on July 6 and joined the allied forces near Tientsin. The number of marines in China increased when Col. Robert L. Meade and 318 marines arrived on July 10 from the Philippines aboard the USS Brooklyn.12 This detachment of marines moved from the coast to Tientsin, where it joined Waller's battalion, and Meade took over command of the American forces. The next day, the allied force launched an attack against Tientsin to rid the walled inner city of the remaining Chinese and Boxer forces. The attacking force, under the command of a British general, included the marines, the Ninth U.S. Infantry, and British, French, German, Japanese, and Russian forces. Fighting took place most of the day with little to show for it. Of the 451 marines engaged in this action, seventeen enlisted men and four officers became casualties.13 A Japanese night attack broke through the Chinese defenses, allowing the international force to enter the walled city of Tientsin. This breakthrough triggered widespread looting of the city.

On July 30, U.S. Army Gen. Adna R. Chaffee arrived in Tientsin and took command of all U.S. forces in China.14 Arriving with Chaffee as part of the "China Relief Expedition" was one battalion of marines under the command of Major Biddle, two battalions of the Fourteenth U.S. Infantry, the Sixth U.S. Cavalry, and one battery from the Fifth U.S. Artillery. The expedition's main goal was to relieve the legations in Peking and protect American interests in China. On August 4, the international expedition of approximately 18,000 left Tientsin for Peking; Chaffee's force of approximately 2,500 Americans included 482 marines.15 On August 5, Japanese forces engaged and defeated the Chinese at Pei-tsang. The next day, part of the international force, including the marines, fought successfully at Yangstun. Many members of the international force suffered from heat exhaustion during the eighty-mile march as a result of the high temperatures and occasional fighting from Tientsin to Peking.16

On the fourteenth, the international force reached Peking and relieved the legations. Upon reaching Peking, the marine unit stopped near the north gate while a platoon went to the top of the wall to stop sniper fire and set up protection for the artillery. Two privates and Lt. Smedley Butler were wounded.17 The next day, marines participated in the advance on the Imperial City.18 After fighting in Peking came to an end, light resistance continued in various parts of China. Most of this activity was combated by German troops until the Boxer Protocol (a formal peace treaty) was signed in September 1901.

(...)
Also:
Boxer Protocol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Protocol

The Clauses:

450 million taels of fine silver (around 18,000 tonnes, worth approx. US$333 million or £67 million at the exchange rates of the time) were to be paid as indemnity over a course of 39 years to the eight nations involved.

The Chinese paid the indemnity in gold on a rising scale with a 4% interest charge until the debt was amortized on December 31, 1940. After 39 years, the amount was almost 1 billion taels (precisely 982,238,150), or ≈1,180,000,000 troy ounces (37,000 tonnes) at 1.2 ozt/tael.

The sum was to be distributed as follows: Russia 28.97%, Germany 20.02%, France 15.75%, United Kingdom 11.25%, Japan 7.73%, United States 7.32%, Italy 7.32%, Belgium 1.89%, Austria-Hungary 0.89%, Netherlands 0.17%, Spain 0.03%, Portugal 0.021%, Sweden and Norway 0.014%.

Other clauses included:

To prohibit the importation of arms and ammunition, as well as materials for the production of arms or ammunition for a period of 2 years, extensible further 2 years as the Powers saw necessary.

The destruction of Taku Forts.

Legation Quarters occupied by the Powers shall be considered as a special area reserved for their use under exclusive control, in which Chinese shall not have the right to reside, and which may be defensible. China recognised the right of each Power to maintain a permanent guard in the said Quarters for the defense of its Legation.

Boxer and Government officials were to be punished for crimes or attempted crimes against the foreign Governments or their nationals. Many were either sentenced to execution, deportation to Xinjiang, imprisoned for life, commit suicide, or suffer posthumous degradation.

The "Office in Charge of Affairs of All Nations" (Zongli Yamen) was replaced with a Foreign Office, which ranked above the other six boards in the government.

The Chinese Government was to prohibit forever, under the pain of death, membership in any anti-foreign society, civil service examinations were to be suspended for 5 years in all areas where foreigners were massacred or subjected to cruel treatment, provincial and local officials would personally be held responsible for any new anti-foreign incidents.

The Emperor of China was to convey his regrets to the German Emperor for the assassination of Baron von Ketteler.

The Emperor of China was to appoint Na't'ung to be his Envoy Extraordinary and direct him to also convey to the Emperor of Japan, his expression of regrets and that of his Government at the assassination of Mr. Sugiyama.

The Chinese Government would have to erect on the spot of the assassination of Baron von Ketteler a commemorative arch inscribed in Latin, German, and Chinese.

Concede the right to the Powers to station troops in [several] places.
I would say the US was a major partner in the highjacking of Chinese property and rights...
And now for the rest of the story..(The part you cut out from YOUR LINK):
Discontent with foreigners had been on the rise in China since 1898, when the "I Ho Ch'uan" (Society of "Righteous and Harmonious Fists") began gaining popularity in a province in northwest China. This group commonly referred to as "Boxers" opposed foreign influence and was strongly anti-Christian. The group's numbers swelled with farmers and other workers who were affected by droughts that had come on the heels of devastating floods. Boxers began harassing Chinese Christians and foreign missionaries. As Boxer activity spread to several provinces, provincial leaders and the Chinese imperial court were inconsistent in their stances. Authorities sometimes fought to protect foreigners and Christians and at other times chose to do nothing at all. Tzu Hsi, the empress dowager of the Manchu Dynasty, was publicly "anti-Boxer."1

The United States and seven other countries - Austria-Hungary, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, and Russia-all had interests in China. These eight foreign powers also maintained legations in the Legation Quarter of Peking.2

The population of Peking started to grow as hundreds of foreign missionaries and Chinese Christians began flocking to the city for protection. On May 28 and 29, Boxers burned several railroad stations between Peking and Paotingfu, including the large railroad junction at Fengtai. The legations in Peking, fearing they were being isolated, quickly telegraphed for help. The immediate response was the deployment of sailors and marines from foreign ships off China.3
So the US sent a few hundred marines to Peking to rescue US christian missionaries.....

What's more at the end of WWI Europeans reaction to peoples of eastern Europe being allow to self determine their own governments shouted "Yankee go home" at Woodrow Wilson. The US was always pro China independence in opposition to the European powers who most definitely wanted their own colonies in China.

Distracting much? :roll:

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 3720
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Sertorio » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:59 pm

Doc wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:01 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:25 pm
Doc wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:16 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:51 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:54 am

I do not find everything Tump does bad. He is absolutely right that China was ripping us off for years.
I was under the impression that colonial, imperialist Western countries had ripped China off for centuries...
Not the United States.
No?
U.S. Marines in the Boxer Rebellion
https://www.archives.gov/publications/p ... ion-1.html

(...)

U.S. Marines participated in several actions in China after Myers's force reached Peking. Before the siege began, an allied force moved north from Tientsin toward Peking days after a railroad line was torn up, isolating the capital city. Vice Admiral Sir Edward Seymour of the British Royal Navy led this force with U.S. Navy Capt. Bowman McCalla second in command. Seymour's expedition included 112 American sailors and marines. The allied force traveled north, rebuilding the railroad line as they went. Seymour's expedition came within twenty-five miles of Peking but was forced by Boxers and Chinese soldiers to retreat back toward Tientsin. After five days of retreating south, Seymour's force fought its way into a Chinese arsenal six miles north of Tientsin, where they fortified their position and waited for help.

The United States quickly scrambled to send additional troops to help lift the siege of Peking. Two separate detachments of marines left Cavite in the Philippine Islands and joined up near Taku, China. The first detachment consisted of 107 marines from the First Regiment, who left Cavite on USS Solace. The second detachment of thirty-two marines sailed from Cavite aboard the USS Nashville.9 Around June 18, the two marine detachments combined into a battalion under the command of Maj. Littleton W.T. Waller. On the twentieth, this marine battalion and approximately four hundred Russians engaged the Chinese near Tientsin. The marines were the spearhead of the American-Russian attack but had little success against the more substantial Chinese forces. After an overwhelming counterattack, the Americans and Russians retreated. The marines formed the rear guard of the retreat, in which they were pursued for four hours. Ending up where they started, the marines had marched a total of thirty miles after going to Tientsin and back. They suffered three killed and seven wounded.10 Two days later, Waller's battalion and the Russian force were strengthened to two thousand men with the arrival of British, Russian, German, Italian, and Japanese troops. This enlarged force went on the offensive the next day and took all but the inner walled city of Tientsin. On the twenty-fifth, the international force relieved Seymour's expedition, which had been held up for a month at the Hsi-Ku Arsenal north of Tientsin.11

The Ninth U.S. Infantry arrived on July 6 and joined the allied forces near Tientsin. The number of marines in China increased when Col. Robert L. Meade and 318 marines arrived on July 10 from the Philippines aboard the USS Brooklyn.12 This detachment of marines moved from the coast to Tientsin, where it joined Waller's battalion, and Meade took over command of the American forces. The next day, the allied force launched an attack against Tientsin to rid the walled inner city of the remaining Chinese and Boxer forces. The attacking force, under the command of a British general, included the marines, the Ninth U.S. Infantry, and British, French, German, Japanese, and Russian forces. Fighting took place most of the day with little to show for it. Of the 451 marines engaged in this action, seventeen enlisted men and four officers became casualties.13 A Japanese night attack broke through the Chinese defenses, allowing the international force to enter the walled city of Tientsin. This breakthrough triggered widespread looting of the city.

On July 30, U.S. Army Gen. Adna R. Chaffee arrived in Tientsin and took command of all U.S. forces in China.14 Arriving with Chaffee as part of the "China Relief Expedition" was one battalion of marines under the command of Major Biddle, two battalions of the Fourteenth U.S. Infantry, the Sixth U.S. Cavalry, and one battery from the Fifth U.S. Artillery. The expedition's main goal was to relieve the legations in Peking and protect American interests in China. On August 4, the international expedition of approximately 18,000 left Tientsin for Peking; Chaffee's force of approximately 2,500 Americans included 482 marines.15 On August 5, Japanese forces engaged and defeated the Chinese at Pei-tsang. The next day, part of the international force, including the marines, fought successfully at Yangstun. Many members of the international force suffered from heat exhaustion during the eighty-mile march as a result of the high temperatures and occasional fighting from Tientsin to Peking.16

On the fourteenth, the international force reached Peking and relieved the legations. Upon reaching Peking, the marine unit stopped near the north gate while a platoon went to the top of the wall to stop sniper fire and set up protection for the artillery. Two privates and Lt. Smedley Butler were wounded.17 The next day, marines participated in the advance on the Imperial City.18 After fighting in Peking came to an end, light resistance continued in various parts of China. Most of this activity was combated by German troops until the Boxer Protocol (a formal peace treaty) was signed in September 1901.

(...)
Also:
Boxer Protocol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Protocol

The Clauses:

450 million taels of fine silver (around 18,000 tonnes, worth approx. US$333 million or £67 million at the exchange rates of the time) were to be paid as indemnity over a course of 39 years to the eight nations involved.

The Chinese paid the indemnity in gold on a rising scale with a 4% interest charge until the debt was amortized on December 31, 1940. After 39 years, the amount was almost 1 billion taels (precisely 982,238,150), or ≈1,180,000,000 troy ounces (37,000 tonnes) at 1.2 ozt/tael.

The sum was to be distributed as follows: Russia 28.97%, Germany 20.02%, France 15.75%, United Kingdom 11.25%, Japan 7.73%, United States 7.32%, Italy 7.32%, Belgium 1.89%, Austria-Hungary 0.89%, Netherlands 0.17%, Spain 0.03%, Portugal 0.021%, Sweden and Norway 0.014%.

Other clauses included:

To prohibit the importation of arms and ammunition, as well as materials for the production of arms or ammunition for a period of 2 years, extensible further 2 years as the Powers saw necessary.

The destruction of Taku Forts.

Legation Quarters occupied by the Powers shall be considered as a special area reserved for their use under exclusive control, in which Chinese shall not have the right to reside, and which may be defensible. China recognised the right of each Power to maintain a permanent guard in the said Quarters for the defense of its Legation.

Boxer and Government officials were to be punished for crimes or attempted crimes against the foreign Governments or their nationals. Many were either sentenced to execution, deportation to Xinjiang, imprisoned for life, commit suicide, or suffer posthumous degradation.

The "Office in Charge of Affairs of All Nations" (Zongli Yamen) was replaced with a Foreign Office, which ranked above the other six boards in the government.

The Chinese Government was to prohibit forever, under the pain of death, membership in any anti-foreign society, civil service examinations were to be suspended for 5 years in all areas where foreigners were massacred or subjected to cruel treatment, provincial and local officials would personally be held responsible for any new anti-foreign incidents.

The Emperor of China was to convey his regrets to the German Emperor for the assassination of Baron von Ketteler.

The Emperor of China was to appoint Na't'ung to be his Envoy Extraordinary and direct him to also convey to the Emperor of Japan, his expression of regrets and that of his Government at the assassination of Mr. Sugiyama.

The Chinese Government would have to erect on the spot of the assassination of Baron von Ketteler a commemorative arch inscribed in Latin, German, and Chinese.

Concede the right to the Powers to station troops in [several] places.
I would say the US was a major partner in the highjacking of Chinese property and rights...
And now for the rest of the story..(The part you cut out from YOUR LINK):
Discontent with foreigners had been on the rise in China since 1898, when the "I Ho Ch'uan" (Society of "Righteous and Harmonious Fists") began gaining popularity in a province in northwest China. This group commonly referred to as "Boxers" opposed foreign influence and was strongly anti-Christian. The group's numbers swelled with farmers and other workers who were affected by droughts that had come on the heels of devastating floods. Boxers began harassing Chinese Christians and foreign missionaries. As Boxer activity spread to several provinces, provincial leaders and the Chinese imperial court were inconsistent in their stances. Authorities sometimes fought to protect foreigners and Christians and at other times chose to do nothing at all. Tzu Hsi, the empress dowager of the Manchu Dynasty, was publicly "anti-Boxer."1

The United States and seven other countries - Austria-Hungary, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, and Russia-all had interests in China. These eight foreign powers also maintained legations in the Legation Quarter of Peking.2

The population of Peking started to grow as hundreds of foreign missionaries and Chinese Christians began flocking to the city for protection. On May 28 and 29, Boxers burned several railroad stations between Peking and Paotingfu, including the large railroad junction at Fengtai. The legations in Peking, fearing they were being isolated, quickly telegraphed for help. The immediate response was the deployment of sailors and marines from foreign ships off China.3
So the US sent a few hundred marines to Peking to rescue US christian missionaries.....

What's more at the end of WWI Europeans reaction to peoples of eastern Europe being allow to self determine their own governments shouted "Yankee go home" at Woodrow Wilson. The US was always pro China independence in opposition to the European powers who most definitely wanted their own colonies in China.

Distracting much? :roll:
The goal of rescuing US Christian missionaries did not stop the US pocketing 7.32% of 450 million taels of fine silver (around 18,000 tonnes, worth approx. US$333 million or £67 million at the exchange rates of the time)...

User avatar
Doc
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Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Doc » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:19 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:59 pm
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
Posts: 5453
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by neverfail » Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:24 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:59 pm



I would say the US was a major partner in the highjacking of Chinese property and rights...
No Sertorio, only a LESSER participant in the looting of China as reflected in America's small share in the reparations payoff. But of course you would allege that, wouldn't you?

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:25 pm
And now for the rest of the story..(The part you cut out from YOUR LINK):
Discontent with foreigners had been on the rise in China since 1898, when the "I Ho Ch'uan" (Society of "Righteous and Harmonious Fists") began gaining popularity in a province in northwest China. This group commonly referred to as "Boxers" opposed foreign influence and was strongly anti-Christian. The group's numbers swelled with farmers and other workers who were affected by droughts that had come on the heels of devastating floods. Boxers began harassing Chinese Christians and foreign missionaries. As Boxer activity spread to several provinces, provincial leaders and the Chinese imperial court were inconsistent in their stances. Authorities sometimes fought to protect foreigners and Christians and at other times chose to do nothing at all. Tzu Hsi, the empress dowager of the Manchu Dynasty, was publicly "anti-Boxer."1

The United States and seven other countries - Austria-Hungary, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, and Russia-all had interests in China. These eight foreign powers also maintained legations in the Legation Quarter of Peking.2

The population of Peking started to grow as hundreds of foreign missionaries and Chinese Christians began flocking to the city for protection. On May 28 and 29, Boxers burned several railroad stations between Peking and Paotingfu, including the large railroad junction at Fengtai. The legations in Peking, fearing they were being isolated, quickly telegraphed for help. The immediate response was the deployment of sailors and marines from foreign ships off China.3

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:25 pm
The goal of rescuing US Christian missionaries did not stop the US pocketing 7.32% of 450 million taels of fine silver (around 18,000 tonnes, worth approx. US$333 million or £67 million at the exchange rates of the time)...
The problem was a very much weakened Chinese imperial government faced with a popular rebellion too big for it to handle. Those foreign devils were none too popular in China. With hindsight, the imposition of those reparations in silver on the Chinese government was an incredibly stupid act. It would have been in the best interests of the Western powers of the day to STRENGTHEN the authority of the Manchu government in their own best interests; yet instead they humuliated it further with this unwonted fiscal burden. That would have trashed the Imperial government's reputation in the eyes of its Han subjects to the point of absolute non-credibility.

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Sertorio
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Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Sertorio » Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:14 am

Seeing the way China was treated by the western powers in the 19th century it is surprising to see how moderate Chinese policies have been in respect of those western countries, now that China is a major power.

neverfail
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Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by neverfail » Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:07 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:14 am
Seeing the way China was treated by the western powers in the 19th century it is surprising to see how moderate Chinese policies have been in respect of those western countries, now that China is a major power.
Those Western powers were incredibly greedy. With China's weakness increasingly evident their arrogance multiplied accordingly.

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Milo
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Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Milo » Wed May 27, 2020 3:30 pm

Meng Wanzhou loses key court fight, must stay in B.C. to fight extradition
The B.C. Supreme Court has ruled against Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou in a major decision Wednesday morning.

The decision, released Wednesday by Justice Heather Holmes, means Meng must stay in Canada and keep fighting the U.S. extradition order.

“The effects of the U.S. sanctions may properly play a role in the double-criminality analysis as part of the background or context against which the alleged conduct was examined,” Holmes said in the decision.

“Ms. Meng’s application is therefore dismissed.”

The legal arguments centred on whether the allegations Meng faces in the United States would be a crime in Canada.

“I cannot agree with Ms. Meng that to refer to the U.S. sanctions in order to understand the risk to HSBC is to allow the essence of the conduct to be defined by foreign law,” Holmes stated.

“Ms. Meng’s appoach to the double-criminality analysis would be seriously limit Canada’s ability to fulfill its international obligations in the extradition context for fraud and other economic crimes.”
And proving that China is wilfully blind to the rule of law, because the only "path" here is for our independent judiciary to decide what happens.
A statement from the Chinese embassy in Canada also denounced Wednesday’s ruling, saying that China “expresses strong dissatisfaction and firm opposition” to the decision and urged Canada “not to go further down the wrong path.”
https://globalnews.ca/news/6992243/meng ... -ruling-2/

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Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Sertorio » Thu May 28, 2020 2:47 am

Milo wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:30 pm

“Ms. Meng’s appoach to the double-criminality analysis would be seriously limit Canada’s ability to fulfill its international obligations in the extradition context for fraud and other economic crimes.”
An interesting argument. The question is not whether what Ms. Meng did would be a crime in Canada, but whether deciding that it is not would prevent Canada from kowtowing to the US... :mrgreen:

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