My way or the Huawei!

Discussion of current events
neverfail
Posts: 3203
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by neverfail » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:27 pm

Milo: I was wondering whether Canada could have turned down the US request to detain Meng pending extradition to the US?

After all, any acts of fraud (or Iran sanctions busting) she may have committed were NOT committed on US soil - so how can the US claim to have jurisdiction?

Further, she has not violated any Canadian law, has she?

The cynic in me suggests that this might be a case of Canada sucking up to the US. Where is Canada's independence now?

(Like the independence your country demonstrated back in the 1960's when it provided sanctuary to thousands of Vietnam War era US draft resisters.)

User avatar
Milo
Posts: 1700
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Milo » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:12 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:27 pm
Milo: I was wondering whether Canada could have turned down the US request to detain Meng pending extradition to the US?

After all, any acts of fraud (or Iran sanctions busting) she may have committed were NOT committed on US soil - so how can the US claim to have jurisdiction?

Further, she has not violated any Canadian law, has she?

The cynic in me suggests that this might be a case of Canada sucking up to the US. Where is Canada's independence now?

(Like the independence your country demonstrated back in the 1960's when it provided sanctuary to thousands of Vietnam War era US draft resisters.)
The short answer is yes we could, if we wanted a reputation as a country that breaks treaties.

Let's not lose sight of this woman possibly aiding and abetting in the deaths of thousands of people and making millions from it.

Or that she will still have all of the benefit of American law should she be extradited.

Consider how a Canadian would be treated by the Chinese justice system, a system so overbearing that their government is offended that we will not break our own law to free her!

Most Americans who came here over Vietnam did it quite legally and I am not aware of any extradition requests by America for them. I don't have time to look at that in detail right now.

As I said above, extradition is another step, where proof of an offense must be presented, at that point we will have the answer to jurisdiction etc. The offense must be an offense under Canadian and American law. We will not extradite if there is a possibility of her receiving cruel or unusual punishment, by our standards, not America's.

I do not see how there is a defense to defrauding an American bank by merely being another country when you did it.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 2334
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Sertorio » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:14 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:12 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:27 pm
Milo: I was wondering whether Canada could have turned down the US request to detain Meng pending extradition to the US?

After all, any acts of fraud (or Iran sanctions busting) she may have committed were NOT committed on US soil - so how can the US claim to have jurisdiction?

Further, she has not violated any Canadian law, has she?

The cynic in me suggests that this might be a case of Canada sucking up to the US. Where is Canada's independence now?

(Like the independence your country demonstrated back in the 1960's when it provided sanctuary to thousands of Vietnam War era US draft resisters.)
The short answer is yes we could, if we wanted a reputation as a country that breaks treaties.

Let's not lose sight of this woman possibly aiding and abetting in the deaths of thousands of people and making millions from it.

Or that she will still have all of the benefit of American law should she be extradited.

Consider how a Canadian would be treated by the Chinese justice system, a system so overbearing that their government is offended that we will not break our own law to free her!

Most Americans who came here over Vietnam did it quite legally and I am not aware of any extradition requests by America for them. I don't have time to look at that in detail right now.

As I said above, extradition is another step, where proof of an offense must be presented, at that point we will have the answer to jurisdiction etc. The offense must be an offense under Canadian and American law. We will not extradite if there is a possibility of her receiving cruel or unusual punishment, by our standards, not America's.

I do not see how there is a defense to defrauding an American bank by merely being another country when you did it.
Most extraordinary! Not only you completely ignored neverfail's pertinent questions, but your main argument in favour of extraditing Ms. Meng was:

Let's not lose sight of this woman possibly aiding and abetting in the deaths of thousands of people and making millions from it.

Ms. Meng's company seems to have chosen to ignore US sanctions against Iran. Sanctions which are, very probably, against international law, as they haven't been decreed by the UNSC.

How is doing business with Iran, "aiding and abetting in the deaths of thousands of people"?

How is breaking US sanctions against Iran an infringement of Canadian law?

But I suppose that having been a US vassal for such a long time, Canada no longer knows what sovereignty and international law are...

User avatar
Milo
Posts: 1700
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Milo » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:57 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:14 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:12 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:27 pm
Milo: I was wondering whether Canada could have turned down the US request to detain Meng pending extradition to the US?

After all, any acts of fraud (or Iran sanctions busting) she may have committed were NOT committed on US soil - so how can the US claim to have jurisdiction?

Further, she has not violated any Canadian law, has she?

The cynic in me suggests that this might be a case of Canada sucking up to the US. Where is Canada's independence now?

(Like the independence your country demonstrated back in the 1960's when it provided sanctuary to thousands of Vietnam War era US draft resisters.)
The short answer is yes we could, if we wanted a reputation as a country that breaks treaties.

Let's not lose sight of this woman possibly aiding and abetting in the deaths of thousands of people and making millions from it.

Or that she will still have all of the benefit of American law should she be extradited.

Consider how a Canadian would be treated by the Chinese justice system, a system so overbearing that their government is offended that we will not break our own law to free her!

Most Americans who came here over Vietnam did it quite legally and I am not aware of any extradition requests by America for them. I don't have time to look at that in detail right now.

As I said above, extradition is another step, where proof of an offense must be presented, at that point we will have the answer to jurisdiction etc. The offense must be an offense under Canadian and American law. We will not extradite if there is a possibility of her receiving cruel or unusual punishment, by our standards, not America's.

I do not see how there is a defense to defrauding an American bank by merely being another country when you did it.
Most extraordinary! Not only you completely ignored neverfail's pertinent questions, but your main argument in favour of extraditing Ms. Meng was:

Let's not lose sight of this woman possibly aiding and abetting in the deaths of thousands of people and making millions from it.

Ms. Meng's company seems to have chosen to ignore US sanctions against Iran. Sanctions which are, very probably, against international law, as they haven't been decreed by the UNSC.

How is doing business with Iran, "aiding and abetting in the deaths of thousands of people"?

How is breaking US sanctions against Iran an infringement of Canadian law?

But I suppose that having been a US vassal for such a long time, Canada no longer knows what sovereignty and international law are...
My my this is a top priority for the GRU isn't it?

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 2334
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Sertorio » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:05 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:57 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:14 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:12 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:27 pm
Milo: I was wondering whether Canada could have turned down the US request to detain Meng pending extradition to the US?

After all, any acts of fraud (or Iran sanctions busting) she may have committed were NOT committed on US soil - so how can the US claim to have jurisdiction?

Further, she has not violated any Canadian law, has she?

The cynic in me suggests that this might be a case of Canada sucking up to the US. Where is Canada's independence now?

(Like the independence your country demonstrated back in the 1960's when it provided sanctuary to thousands of Vietnam War era US draft resisters.)
The short answer is yes we could, if we wanted a reputation as a country that breaks treaties.

Let's not lose sight of this woman possibly aiding and abetting in the deaths of thousands of people and making millions from it.

Or that she will still have all of the benefit of American law should she be extradited.

Consider how a Canadian would be treated by the Chinese justice system, a system so overbearing that their government is offended that we will not break our own law to free her!

Most Americans who came here over Vietnam did it quite legally and I am not aware of any extradition requests by America for them. I don't have time to look at that in detail right now.

As I said above, extradition is another step, where proof of an offense must be presented, at that point we will have the answer to jurisdiction etc. The offense must be an offense under Canadian and American law. We will not extradite if there is a possibility of her receiving cruel or unusual punishment, by our standards, not America's.

I do not see how there is a defense to defrauding an American bank by merely being another country when you did it.
Most extraordinary! Not only you completely ignored neverfail's pertinent questions, but your main argument in favour of extraditing Ms. Meng was:

Let's not lose sight of this woman possibly aiding and abetting in the deaths of thousands of people and making millions from it.

Ms. Meng's company seems to have chosen to ignore US sanctions against Iran. Sanctions which are, very probably, against international law, as they haven't been decreed by the UNSC.

How is doing business with Iran, "aiding and abetting in the deaths of thousands of people"?

How is breaking US sanctions against Iran an infringement of Canadian law?

But I suppose that having been a US vassal for such a long time, Canada no longer knows what sovereignty and international law are...
My my this is a top priority for the GRU isn't it?
It's simply something for which you have no answer. As a good lawyer, you just try to draw the attention to something totally irrelevant, hoping neverfail's and my comments will simply disappear... What will not disappear is the pathetic vision of Canada kowtowing to the US, as usual...

User avatar
Milo
Posts: 1700
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Milo » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:20 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:05 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:57 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:14 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:12 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:27 pm
Milo: I was wondering whether Canada could have turned down the US request to detain Meng pending extradition to the US?

After all, any acts of fraud (or Iran sanctions busting) she may have committed were NOT committed on US soil - so how can the US claim to have jurisdiction?

Further, she has not violated any Canadian law, has she?

The cynic in me suggests that this might be a case of Canada sucking up to the US. Where is Canada's independence now?

(Like the independence your country demonstrated back in the 1960's when it provided sanctuary to thousands of Vietnam War era US draft resisters.)
The short answer is yes we could, if we wanted a reputation as a country that breaks treaties.

Let's not lose sight of this woman possibly aiding and abetting in the deaths of thousands of people and making millions from it.

Or that she will still have all of the benefit of American law should she be extradited.

Consider how a Canadian would be treated by the Chinese justice system, a system so overbearing that their government is offended that we will not break our own law to free her!

Most Americans who came here over Vietnam did it quite legally and I am not aware of any extradition requests by America for them. I don't have time to look at that in detail right now.

As I said above, extradition is another step, where proof of an offense must be presented, at that point we will have the answer to jurisdiction etc. The offense must be an offense under Canadian and American law. We will not extradite if there is a possibility of her receiving cruel or unusual punishment, by our standards, not America's.

I do not see how there is a defense to defrauding an American bank by merely being another country when you did it.
Most extraordinary! Not only you completely ignored neverfail's pertinent questions, but your main argument in favour of extraditing Ms. Meng was:

Let's not lose sight of this woman possibly aiding and abetting in the deaths of thousands of people and making millions from it.

Ms. Meng's company seems to have chosen to ignore US sanctions against Iran. Sanctions which are, very probably, against international law, as they haven't been decreed by the UNSC.

How is doing business with Iran, "aiding and abetting in the deaths of thousands of people"?

How is breaking US sanctions against Iran an infringement of Canadian law?

But I suppose that having been a US vassal for such a long time, Canada no longer knows what sovereignty and international law are...
My my this is a top priority for the GRU isn't it?
It's simply something for which you have no answer. As a good lawyer, you just try to draw the attention to something totally irrelevant, hoping neverfail's and my comments will simply disappear... What will not disappear is the pathetic vision of Canada kowtowing to the US, as usual...
I already addressed your question and NF can speak for himself.

neverfail
Posts: 3203
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by neverfail » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:39 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:12 pm

I do not see how there is a defense to defrauding an American bank by merely being another country when you did it.
I was previously unaware of that Milo. It is therefore very much America's business.

The propaganda being put out was that she violated American sanctions on iran. That's what had me fooled.

User avatar
Milo
Posts: 1700
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Milo » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:23 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:39 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:12 pm

I do not see how there is a defense to defrauding an American bank by merely being another country when you did it.
I was previously unaware of that Milo. It is therefore very much America's business.

The propaganda being put out was that she violated American sanctions on iran. That's what had me fooled.
The Americans have yet to put their cards on the table but I understand that Huawei set up a shell company that violated sanctions on several countries: Sudan, NK and Iran being some of them; and fraudulently represented that company to American banks, among others, in order to do so.

There's no criminal law of 'violating sanctions' here, nor in the US I am sure, so she can't be charged with that.

I think the media fans the flames unnecessarily here. No lawyer with a scrap of criminal law experience would advise them that she is charged with a law that doesn't exist, so they are quite willfully blind in order to keep the story going.

Except Sertorio and his RT pals, they do it to serve tyranny, as usual.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 2334
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Sertorio » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:38 am

Milo wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:23 am
neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:39 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:12 pm

I do not see how there is a defense to defrauding an American bank by merely being another country when you did it.
I was previously unaware of that Milo. It is therefore very much America's business.

The propaganda being put out was that she violated American sanctions on iran. That's what had me fooled.
The Americans have yet to put their cards on the table but I understand that Huawei set up a shell company that violated sanctions on several countries: Sudan, NK and Iran being some of them; and fraudulently represented that company to American banks, among others, in order to do so.

There's no criminal law of 'violating sanctions' here, nor in the US I am sure, so she can't be charged with that.

I think the media fans the flames unnecessarily here. No lawyer with a scrap of criminal law experience would advise them that she is charged with a law that doesn't exist, so they are quite willfully blind in order to keep the story going.

Except Sertorio and his RT pals, they do it to serve tyranny, as usual.
...fraudulently represented that company to American banks, among others, in order to do so...

What does that actually mean? Tried to convince those banks that such a company had no connection with Huawei? So what? Will you please explain what Huawei actually did wrong or illegal?

User avatar
Milo
Posts: 1700
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: My way or the Huawei!

Post by Milo » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:28 am

China sentences Canadian man to death
A court in China has sentenced a Canadian to death for drug smuggling in a ruling which will worsen a diplomatic row between the two countries.

Robert Lloyd Schellenberg was originally given a 15-year jail term in 2018 but after an appeal the court said the sentence was too lenient.

China has denied that it is using its legal system to take hostages as bargaining chips in the Huawei case.

But for whatever reason China has suddenly begun working hard to push Schellenberg's case to international prominence, taking the highly unusual step of inviting foreign journalists into the court, the BBC's John Sudworth in Beijing reports.

And despite the Canadian's insistence that he is innocent, his retrial lasted just a day, with his death sentence coming barely an hour after its conclusion, our correspondent says.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-46866941

Hopefully this young man will not die because Canada refuses to break its own laws to appease this tyranny!

Post Reply