The "French disease" spreads into Belgium.

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Sertorio
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Re: The "French disease" spreads into Belgium.

Post by Sertorio » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:36 am

Some good things could come from global warming. If New York becomes submerged its streets will be a lot cleaner... :D

neverfail
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Re: Carry on Warming

Post by neverfail » Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:06 am

cassowary wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:08 am

You are too pessimistic. Carbon dioxide is good for food production.
All flora relies on absorption of carbon dioxide to build plant tissue. But carbon dioxide is not the only greenhouse gas being emitted into the atmosphere. Some of the others (like methane) are apparently quite toxic. The issue is that greenhouse gases are heating up the atmosphere creating conditions for desertification which is proceeding apace now.

The point about human activities is that these have created and are still creating an "overload" of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; more than the earth's flora can handle. Not merely because we are burning more coal and oil than ever before but because we have cleared away so much forest that the earth's most efficient absorber/processor of carbon dioxide is in chronically short supply. Before the industrial revolution since which much of the tree cover has been cleared for cropland and pasture there would have been a much better balance. But not now! Food crops and grassland are only a fraction as efficient as trees as carbon sinks. Hence the still continuing buildup of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
cassowary wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:08 am
I was in Patagonia two days ago. The Argentine tour guide explained that their side of Patagonia is dry. But in recent years she noticed it has gone greener. The soil is fertile. They only need more rain. Thanks to global warming they are getting wetter.
The Argentine side of Patagonia is dry for the same reason that the Mackenzie country in the middle of the South Island of New Zealand is dry. An approx. north-south running range of fold mountains (in your case, the Andes) blocks the flow of moisture laden wind from the ocean to the west forcing it to rise - precipitating as heavy rainfall at the lower altitudes and as snow at high altitudes. So much snow that in the case of both the NZ Alps and the lower Andes the snow compacts into icefields in the mountain passes which then overflow down the high valleys below as glaciers.

Same effect both on the west coast side of NZ's South Island and the Chile side of Patagonia.

Having been wrung dry of moisture during the climb up the west side of the mountain ranges, the wind flows down the eastern side as a drying wind that sucks moisture out of the ground instead of irrigating it with rain. This is why in Argentine Patagonia you have arid conditions ranging from dry prairie to outright desert at latitudes where ordinarily there should be no aridity.

Since the rain in both cases comes from the west and the problem is a pair of mountain ranges that act like gigantic blocking walls, global warming should have no effect in improving average rainfall.

I would not hang on to the chance observation of your Argentine guide as gospel revelation Cass. Rainfall is erratic in all semi-arid regions. Even in our Australian Outback you can get a run of several good years of above average rainfall yet it never turns the landscape into a permanently green and pleasant land like England.

P.S. Enjoy your stay in South America.

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cassowary
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Canada will benefit from global warming, economists say

Post by cassowary » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:03 am

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/clim ... -1.3282446
Some countries, like Russia, Mongolia and Canada, would see large economic benefits from global warming, the study projects. Most of Europe would do slightly better, the United States and China slightly worse. Essentially all of Africa, Asia, South America and the Middle East would be hurt dramatically, the economists found.

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Doc
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Re: The "French disease" spreads into Belgium.

Post by Doc » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:46 am

Milo wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:18 pm
Doc

Science is about the data.

How about you address that?
I did. So did Goreham. You posted a hit piece on him. So how about you address all of Goreham's points? Al Gore predicted that the Artic would be ice free by 2012 Why don't you start there?

But I understand you are restricted as to what you can say, being in Canada and all.

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Milo
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Re: The "French disease" spreads into Belgium.

Post by Milo » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:26 am

Doc wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:46 am
Milo wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:18 pm
Doc

Science is about the data.

How about you address that?
I did. So did Goreham. You posted a hit piece on him. So how about you address all of Goreham's points?Al GOre predicted that the Artic would be ice free by 2012 Why don't you start there?
Sure, to begin with, it's not an accurate quote:

He said could be free of summer ice.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ice-c ... gore-2014/

You seem to be confused as to what a scientist is; Al Gore has never held himself out as a climate scientist, or any other kind of scientist.

Why don't you find out what an actual scientist says in actual peer reviewed literature?

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Doc
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Re: The "French disease" spreads into Belgium.

Post by Doc » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:51 am

Milo wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:26 am
Doc wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:46 am
Milo wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:18 pm
Doc

Science is about the data.

How about you address that?
I did. So did Goreham. You posted a hit piece on him. So how about you address all of Goreham's points?Al GOre predicted that the Artic would be ice free by 2012 Why don't you start there?
Sure, to begin with, it's not an accurate quote:

He said could be free of summer ice.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ice-c ... gore-2014/

You seem to be confused as to what a scientist is; Al Gore has never held himself out as a climate scientist, or any other kind of scientist.

Why don't you find out what an actual scientist says in actual peer reviewed literature?
From the very same snopes article:
On 13 December 2008, Gore appears to have made a similarly flawed statement while speaking at the opening of a German natural history museum. Though transcripts and clear audio are hard to find, one video of the event documents Gore saying that “The entire North polar ice cap may well be completely gone in 5 years.”
These figures are fresh. Some of the models suggest to Dr [Wieslav] Maslowski that there is a 75 per cent chance that the entire north polar ice cap, during the summer months, could be completely ice-free within five to seven years.
The claim that Gore “predicted” an ice-free Arctic in 2014 is a simplification of these events. However, Gore is definitely guilty, in these cases, of cherry picking science or playing loose with the details of that science.

Gore’s statements gained the most viral attention in 2014 and 2015, both because these were years in which Gore’s statements implied an ice-free summer in the Arctic and because those years had relatively more arctic sea ice than preceding years.
AS to what scientists said
Mr Gore’s office later admitted that the 75 per cent figure was one used by Dr Maslowksi as a “ballpark figure” several years ago in a conversation with Mr Gore.


But I guess "The world's first carbon billionaire"(based on market speculation - no conflict of interest there) is a bad example to cite as a virtuous example of a global warming champion


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“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: Canada will benefit from global warming, economists say

Post by neverfail » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:34 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:03 am
https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/clim ... -1.3282446
Some countries, like Russia, Mongolia and Canada, would see large economic benefits from global warming, the study projects. Most of Europe would do slightly better, the United States and China slightly worse. Essentially all of Africa, Asia, South America and the Middle East would be hurt dramatically, the economists found.
That has credibility Cass. Unfortunately, neither Tol nor this CBC report takes into account the losses incurred by low lying coastal cities and agricultural regions due to the melting of the polar ice. Ominously, this is now taking place at an unprecedented rate in both Antarctica and Greenland.

New Orleans, Amsterdam and Venice will be lost forever; much of London will be inundated. San Francisco will probably survive while Los Angeles will drown. Buenos Aries in insalvable. Bangladesh and the Netherlands are both doomed.

Pity Singapore - lost to the rising waters of Malacca Strait.

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cassowary
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Re: The "French disease" spreads into Belgium.

Post by cassowary » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:00 pm

you are being overly dramatic.3.4 By 2050, estimate of sea level rise varies from a low of 4 inches to a high of 24 inches.

https://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/s ... BLH22gzbyQ

This is from a very alarmist website.

According to the Smithsonian, Sea levels are rising at about 3.4 mm per year. https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancie ... level-rise

neverfail
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Re: The "French disease" spreads into Belgium.

Post by neverfail » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:40 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:00 pm
you are being overly dramatic.3.4 By 2050, estimate of sea level rise varies from a low of 4 inches to a high of 24 inches.

https://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/s ... BLH22gzbyQ

This is from a very alarmist website.
24 inches? With a spring tide added that would likely be enough for our harbour waters to flood the basement of The Sydney Opera House. We can't have that now, can we?

During a storm the waves on Sydney Harbour would wash over the Opera House forecourt if the harbour waters were but two foot higher than now.

But lest you think that I an overly concerned about my immediate neighbourhood; I estimate that a two foot rise in the ocean level would be enough for the sea to submerge the peninsula part of Florida, which is visibly flat (Low Countries flat) and low lying; being located on top of a limestone shelf made by an ancient coral reef. Think about the lost of property values in the Greater Miami region alone.
cassowary wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:00 pm
According to the Smithsonian, Sea levels are rising at about 3.4 mm per year. https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancie ... level-rise
The rate is due to pick up - due to the accelerated melting of the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets.

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Doc
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Re: The "French disease" spreads into Belgium.

Post by Doc » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:46 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:40 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:00 pm
you are being overly dramatic.3.4 By 2050, estimate of sea level rise varies from a low of 4 inches to a high of 24 inches.

https://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/s ... BLH22gzbyQ

This is from a very alarmist website.
24 inches? With a spring tide added that would likely be enough for our harbour waters to flood the basement of The Sydney Opera House. We can't have that now, can we?

During a storm the waves on Sydney Harbour would wash over the Opera House forecourt if the harbour waters were but two foot higher than now.

But lest you think that I an overly concerned about my immediate neighbourhood; I estimate that a two foot rise in the ocean level would be enough for the sea to submerge the peninsula part of Florida, which is visibly flat (Low Countries flat) and low lying; being located on top of a limestone shelf made by an ancient coral reef. Think about the lost of property values in the Greater Miami region alone.
cassowary wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:00 pm
According to the Smithsonian, Sea levels are rising at about 3.4 mm per year. https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancie ... level-rise
The rate is due to pick up - due to the accelerated melting of the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets.
You do know that it would take a 1,000 years to melt the Greenland ice sheet, right? Plus I would think beech front property in Greenland during a long heat wave would be much preferable in a hotter world.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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