US Foreign Policy

Discussion of current events
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Sertorio
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Sertorio » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:57 am

cassowary wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:12 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:06 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:03 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:38 am


Nobody trusts the US, ...
For one thing, most of your fellow Europeans do. That is why they got shocked when Trump, in the early days of the administration, floated the idea of leaving NATO.
I very much doubt most Europeans trust the US. All I see is most European governments being unwilling to upset the US. But sooner or later public opinion will prevail over governments' fears. When that happens US troops will leave Europe, never to return, and NATO will be dismantled, as it should. The US - just as the UK - has no place in Europe. We can very well manage our own affairs without their interference.
The majority of Europeans, particularly those in Eastern Europe don't agree with you.
Those countries can always sign an alliance with the US, if they think it's such a good idea...

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SteveFoerster
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:58 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:36 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:53 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:38 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:01 pm
"Who benefits as US withdraws from Syria? Not Israel."

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,734 ... 37,00.html

Does anyone else care? All of a sudden the US yanking 2,000 soldiers out of Syria means that Israel and the Kurds are doomed? Are there not 2,000 Arab soldiers available to counter reemergence of the ISIS barbarians? Why must it be the US?

"Who will trust the US now." Ask the Kurds . . .
Nobody trusts the US, but US presence in Syria has absolutely no constructive purpose. The only reason the war isn't yet over in Syria is foreign interference, mostly from Turkey and the so-called coalition. The Syrian government is now strong enough to put an end to the foreign inspired rebellion, and strong enough to accept a political compromise which will satisfy the truly moderate opposition in Syria. That should become clear in the near future.
I'm as glad as anyone that the U.S. is leaving, but listing the U.S. and Turkey as foreign powers that are meddling in Syria and neglecting to mention Russia is total nonsense. And it's not like Putin cares about Assad or everyday Syrians, he just wants that naval base, which is to say, the same behaviour for which you routinely criticise the U.S.
Russia was asked by Syria to assist in defeating the rebellion and ISIS. Turkey and the US interfered in defiance of international law. Funny you failed to mention that...
That's because, unlike you, I don't labour under the ridiculous pretense that Assad is a democratically elected ruler.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Sertorio
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Sertorio » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:51 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:58 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:36 pm

Russia was asked by Syria to assist in defeating the rebellion and ISIS. Turkey and the US interfered in defiance of international law. Funny you failed to mention that...
That's because, unlike you, I don't labour under the ridiculous pretense that Assad is a democratically elected ruler.
International law does not apply only to countries which have a democratic government. Assad's governement is recognized as legitimate by the UN, and that's all that is necessary for Syria to be protected under international law. By sending troops to Syria without cover by the UNSC, the US, the so-called coalition countries, and Turkey, have violated international law.

Jim the Moron
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Jim the Moron » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:54 pm

Interesting, how the dynamics of US military withdrawal from the ME are playing out. Normally the American left is more reliably pacifist regarding policing of Muslim terrorist activities, while the right tends to be more gung-ho. It's now becoming evident that this is not holding up. Most interesting (revealing) is the virulent opposition by certain lefties to the withdrawals, apparently based solely on their opposition to anything the administration proposes.

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cassowary
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by cassowary » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:18 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:57 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:12 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:06 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:03 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:38 am


Nobody trusts the US, ...
For one thing, most of your fellow Europeans do. That is why they got shocked when Trump, in the early days of the administration, floated the idea of leaving NATO.
I very much doubt most Europeans trust the US. All I see is most European governments being unwilling to upset the US. But sooner or later public opinion will prevail over governments' fears. When that happens US troops will leave Europe, never to return, and NATO will be dismantled, as it should. The US - just as the UK - has no place in Europe. We can very well manage our own affairs without their interference.
The majority of Europeans, particularly those in Eastern Europe don't agree with you.
Those countries can always sign an alliance with the US, if they think it's such a good idea...
They did. It’s called NATO. Those countries that do not wish to be allied with the US can always leave. Is Portugal leaving?

neverfail
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by neverfail » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:19 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:51 am
International law does not apply only to countries which have a democratic government. Assad's governement is recognized as legitimate by the UN, and that's all that is necessary for Syria to be protected under international law. By sending troops to Syria without cover by the UNSC, the US, the so-called coalition countries, and Turkey, have violated international law.
Which means that international law should have protected the likes of both both Hitler and Stalin - right?

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SteveFoerster
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:11 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:19 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:51 am
International law does not apply only to countries which have a democratic government. Assad's governement is recognized as legitimate by the UN, and that's all that is necessary for Syria to be protected under international law. By sending troops to Syria without cover by the UNSC, the US, the so-called coalition countries, and Turkey, have violated international law.
Which means that international law should have protected the likes of both both Hitler and Stalin - right?
Both opposed the U.S. in their time, so both would be heroes to Sertorio.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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lzzrdgrrl
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:02 pm

Somebody besides D. Goldman thinks Orange Man is right re. Syria:
If 700 days out of US President Donald Trump’s 1,461 days of presidency seem a wasteland of unfulfilled promises and expectations in foreign policy – except, perhaps, on the Korean Peninsula – things dramatically changed on December 19 when he announced the troop withdrawal from Syria.
http://www.atimes.com/article/trump-mad ... -conflict/
I have a certain notoriety among the lesser gods........

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Sertorio
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Sertorio » Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:31 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:19 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:51 am
International law does not apply only to countries which have a democratic government. Assad's governement is recognized as legitimate by the UN, and that's all that is necessary for Syria to be protected under international law. By sending troops to Syria without cover by the UNSC, the US, the so-called coalition countries, and Turkey, have violated international law.
Which means that international law should have protected the likes of both both Hitler and Stalin - right?
It did. So long as they did not become violators of that same international law.

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Sertorio
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Sertorio » Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:34 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:11 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:19 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:51 am
International law does not apply only to countries which have a democratic government. Assad's governement is recognized as legitimate by the UN, and that's all that is necessary for Syria to be protected under international law. By sending troops to Syria without cover by the UNSC, the US, the so-called coalition countries, and Turkey, have violated international law.
Which means that international law should have protected the likes of both both Hitler and Stalin - right?
Both opposed the U.S. in their time, so both would be heroes to Sertorio.
They might have. If they had not become more dangerous than the US. Between two evils I will always prefer the lesser one. That's why I now prefer Russia and China to the US...

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