Israel

Discussion of current events
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Milo
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Re: Israel

Post by Milo » Fri May 18, 2018 11:26 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 8:11 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:09 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:16 am
Milo wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:43 am

Those who support the Palestinian thugocracy are huge fans of 'international law', yet nobody has taken the Arab world to task for creating and perpetuating an enormous human shield operation, where the Palestinian people serve as a buffer for the Arab world and fodder for well meaning fools' outrage porn.
Any court capable of condemning the Arabs on that account would have to condemn all Syrian rebels - and their sponsors - for doing exactly the same...
What are you talking about? Assad is a thug who deserves to be overthrown.
Perhaps. But all U.S. policymakers got for trying to force that result was (1) the hypocrisy and shame of of collaboration with al-Qaeda, (2) deteriorated relations with Russia and Turkey, (3) a massive embarrassing demonstration that the U.S. is much weaker at projecting power in the region than it used to be, (4) Europe flooded with refugees, and (5) however many unnecessarily dead Syrians.

It's been an unmitigated clusterfuck.
Yes. But as long as the Gulf States are allowed to secretly invest billions in America they will get their way.

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dagbay
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Re: Israel

Post by dagbay » Sat May 19, 2018 5:27 pm

I just read with interest the last exchanges since the US Embassy move. It is quite interesting to see the very same facts interpreted in so many different ways. I would preferably see a peaceful resolution where the Arabs who do not want to live under Israeli rule would be relocated to Jordan, or one of the other surrounding countries as much as a Million Jews were expelled from the very same countries in a coordinated pan-Islamic decree in 1948-1951. (The Arab world is effectively Yuden-rine as good as Nazi Germany wished for and is working hard to become Christian free.) That should leave Israel with a substantial Muslim population but a peaceful one that does not wish to annihilate the country. To those who fear Apartheid or loss of the Jewish nature of the land, I say that there are ways to prevent both. See Lebanon's Civil war settlement for partition of its parliament among the factions and the current status of Israeli Arab citizens. Clearly that is unlikely to take place anytime or anytime soon. The current status however must be stated correctly. The Jewish people have built a strong, advanced and capable state in their ancient land in midst of a region full of Arab failed states. Arabs are living in shame that their purported superior culture is left generations behind in the desert dust. This is profound since it is evident in their face every day becoming more obvious and hard to ignore than the pre 1948 Jewish industrious achievements. They covet that which they can't have and which have tried endlessly to destroy to prove their superiority. BTW, I am not impressed with the recent attempts of some Arab countries to find reasons to ally with Israel as it is a transient and convenient result of their fear of Iran. Islam as a whole will never acclimate itself to the idea that Jews can have a long term sovereignty in their midst by definition of Islam itself.

That Islam is an occupying political-theology ever since its introduction to the world in the 7th century is a fact. Islam started as we all know in Arabia (modern SA). In its conquests it supplanted and destroyed many former (some great) cultures and occupied their lands. Note that Islam has spread by the sword from Arabia to North Africa and Spain as well as eastward all the way to Indonesia passing through Persia and south east Asia. Islam expanded North suppressing the Byzantines and East European cultures into parts of North Asia all the way to Mongolia. The land between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean sea is a tiny part of that conquest. In the process the spread of Islam destroyed or replaced the ancient Egyptian culture with its advanced science, the ancient Persians known for their basic calculus and Algebra among many others. Specifically Muslims committed Ethnic Cleansing when they exterminated and deported all the multi-generational Jewish communities of the East part of the city of Jerusalem (1939) and Hebron (1929).

The foundation of Islam is based on the usurpation of all the preexisting cultures that predated it. So the Jewish Forefathers and the fore-mothers of the nation, the Prophets, Kings, and the associated sacred locations, not to mention Jesus and his Christian followers became Muslim by decree that Islam is the replacement of Judaism as well as Christianity. Islamists made sure that this "replacement" principle will prevail by destroying any evidence they could find of those preexisting cultures and nations and in most cases they succeeded and are following suit to this very day (blowing up and leveling any sites that conflict with their narrative).

Coming back to the dispute between Arabs and Jews; In spite of the misinformation campaign by Arabs and other Islamists as chorused by liberals in the West, Israel was never in its entire history was settled by Arabs as in a state a country or part of one. It was conquered by many an empire since the Roman expulsion of most of its Jewish inhabitants but remained mostly neglected but for very small amount of Jews who stayed put and many local nomads who passed through. We all know the recent history of Jewish resurrection of the ancient sovereignty as the state of Israel.
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

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Sertorio
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Re: Israel

Post by Sertorio » Sat May 19, 2018 5:47 pm

dagbay wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 5:27 pm

The foundation of Islam is based on the usurpation of all the preexisting cultures that predated it. So the Jewish Forefathers and the fore-mothers of the nation, the Prophets, Kings, and the associated sacred locations, not to mention Jesus and his Christian followers became Muslim by decree that Islam is the replacement of Judaism as well as Christianity. Islamists made sure that this "replacement" principle will prevail by destroying any evidence they could find of those preexisting cultures and nations and in most cases they succeeded and are following suit to this very day (blowing up and leveling any sites that conflict with their narrative).
Islam is a fake religion which has no original traits and is indeed a parasite of Judaism and Christianity. It could be all that but at the same time be harmless, but it isn't. While there are certainly very good, very ethical and very compassionate Muslims, there are by far more Muslims who are viciously destructive, which makes it almost impossible to coexist with them. Hopefully a majority of Muslims will eventually become secular and stop interfering with other peoples' faiths. As much as this will upset some people, the fact is that it's people like Bashar al-Assad who may speed up that process. That's why he deserves our support.

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dagbay
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Re: Israel

Post by dagbay » Sun May 20, 2018 3:48 pm

Ah Sertorio, I was expecting your retort and surprisingly I agree with most of it except for your assertion that Bashar is the Islamic moderating Messiah. He is a ruthless tirrent locked in a survival battle with other Muslim factions being propped up by Putin, Erdugan, ISIS and Iran. Impossible to tell if he will survive but even if he does Syria will remain divided. His inept performance during the Syrian Arab Spring will not allow him to ascend to the level of an enlightedreformer.
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

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Sertorio
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Re: Israel

Post by Sertorio » Mon May 21, 2018 3:27 am

dagbay wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 3:48 pm
Ah Sertorio, I was expecting your retort and surprisingly I agree with most of it except for your assertion that Bashar is the Islamic moderating Messiah. He is a ruthless tirrent locked in a survival battle with other Muslim factions being propped up by Putin, Erdugan, ISIS and Iran. Impossible to tell if he will survive but even if he does Syria will remain divided. His inept performance during the Syrian Arab Spring will not allow him to ascend to the level of an enlightedreformer.
Bashar is the voice of secularism in Syria. He is not fighting religious groups, he is fighting fundamentalism and religious hatred. With him all religious groups will be free to worship as they wish, but not to attack other religions. All he needs is a bit more democracy and tolerance of any constructive opposition.

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Milo
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Re: Israel

Post by Milo » Mon May 21, 2018 9:55 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:27 am
dagbay wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 3:48 pm
Ah Sertorio, I was expecting your retort and surprisingly I agree with most of it except for your assertion that Bashar is the Islamic moderating Messiah. He is a ruthless tirrent locked in a survival battle with other Muslim factions being propped up by Putin, Erdugan, ISIS and Iran. Impossible to tell if he will survive but even if he does Syria will remain divided. His inept performance during the Syrian Arab Spring will not allow him to ascend to the level of an enlightedreformer.
Bashar is the voice of secularism in Syria. He is not fighting religious groups, he is fighting fundamentalism and religious hatred. With him all religious groups will be free to worship as they wish, but not to attack other religions. All he needs is a bit more democracy and tolerance of any constructive opposition.
He's fighting for his inherited privilege and nothing more.

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Sertorio
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Re: Israel

Post by Sertorio » Mon May 21, 2018 10:39 am

Milo wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:55 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:27 am
dagbay wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 3:48 pm
Ah Sertorio, I was expecting your retort and surprisingly I agree with most of it except for your assertion that Bashar is the Islamic moderating Messiah. He is a ruthless tirrent locked in a survival battle with other Muslim factions being propped up by Putin, Erdugan, ISIS and Iran. Impossible to tell if he will survive but even if he does Syria will remain divided. His inept performance during the Syrian Arab Spring will not allow him to ascend to the level of an enlightedreformer.
Bashar is the voice of secularism in Syria. He is not fighting religious groups, he is fighting fundamentalism and religious hatred. With him all religious groups will be free to worship as they wish, but not to attack other religions. All he needs is a bit more democracy and tolerance of any constructive opposition.
He's fighting for his inherited privilege and nothing more.
No ruler does ever fight only for his privilege. Not Stalin, not Mussolini, not Kim Jong-un, not Attila... It's a bit like the "invisible hand", but in the political sphere...

Jim the Moron
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Re: Israel

Post by Jim the Moron » Tue May 22, 2018 4:52 am

"Paraguay follows in the footsteps of not only the United States but also Guatemala. Romania, the Czech Republic, and Honduras are all on the brink of moving their embassies [to Jerusalem] as well."
https://pjmedia.com/trending/more-embas ... ts-example

It is being reported that Hamas honchos are forming squads of kids with suicide vests pledged to blow up any and all embassies in Jerusalem.

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dagbay
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Re: Israel

Post by dagbay » Thu May 31, 2018 10:26 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 4:52 am
"Paraguay follows in the footsteps of not only the United States but also Guatemala. Romania, the Czech Republic, and Honduras are all on the brink of moving their embassies [to Jerusalem] as well."
https://pjmedia.com/trending/more-embas ... ts-example

It is being reported that Hamas honchos are forming squads of kids with suicide vests pledged to blow up any and all embassies in Jerusalem.
Sorry, not interested in another episode of the "Fear of the Walking Dead". Hamas and the PA aided by the Arab leaders led their people to a cultural death march that is on going for about 140 years starting with the late 1800's first East European Jewish return to the land of Israel. Under constant threats of Arab violence, Jews with the Arab, Druze and Christian minorities set up a nation state that is quite remarkable on many fronts. The Arabs meanwhile perfected the grievance culture and exploited all the willing and naive to provide for them. The gap keeps widening and the tried and true tactics of the past lost most of their potency over the years.
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

Mr. Perfect
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Re: Israel

Post by Mr. Perfect » Thu May 31, 2018 11:34 pm

I love Israel.

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