Singapore the big winner and Hong Kong the big sinner?

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neverfail
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Re: Singapore the big winner and Hong Kong the big sinner?

Post by neverfail » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:01 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:26 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:22 pm
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/07/artic ... ngs-chaos/
The mammoth protests against a proposed extradition bill that have gripped Hong Kong since early June would be unthinkable in Singapore, which strictly enforces laws that curb public protests and political expression. :shock:


:o Amazing! They have more freedom in Hong Kong than they do in Singapore.

Whoever made the silly suggestion that capitalism always brings about more freedom in its wake?

:idea: I think I know!
Wait a minute. This is not true. We got Hong Lim Park for demonstrations.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

neverfail
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Re: Singapore the big winner and Hong Kong the big sinner?

Post by neverfail » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:06 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:58 pm

Beijing in the 60's and today

Image
Mao boiler suits were very fashionable in the PRC back in the 1960's.

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Doc
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Re: Singapore the big winner and Hong Kong the big sinner?

Post by Doc » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:33 pm

Milo wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:53 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:58 pm
Milo wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:23 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:40 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:38 am
Milo wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:33 pm

China is not capitalist.
Which is good for them. Or else they wouldn't have grown and developed as much as they did in the last fifty years.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I don't think it's a given that they have actually.
Beijing in the 60's and today

Image

Image
I could show a similar comparison between the Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany.

Pretty pictures don't mean progress, nor do economic statistics. They CAN mean it but they don't have to.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society ... urs-denied
‘No problem at all’ with China’s Three Gorges Dam as warping rumours denied
:roll:

If you zoom in on the South China Post's "High resolution photo" you can see the damn is deformed at the water inlets.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: Singapore the big winner and Hong Kong the big sinner?

Post by neverfail » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:45 pm

Doc wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:33 pm

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society ... urs-denied
‘No problem at all’ with China’s Three Gorges Dam as warping rumours denied
:roll:

If you zoom in on the South China Post's "High resolution photo" you can see the damn is deformed at the water inlets.
Good point doc.

In a democracy like ours those responsible for such bad workmanship would be brought to book but in places like the PRC they just try to cover up the political embarrassment.

neverfail
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Re: Singapore the big winner and Hong Kong the big sinner?

Post by neverfail » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:52 pm

By the way cass:

Those public mass demonstrations in Hong Kong have left me impressed. Singapore is about the same demographic size as HK. When the day comes when in Singapore you can stage such mass demonstrations against denial of civil rights and liberties by your establishment I will then be convinced that Singapore is in earnest about transforming itself into a true democracy.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Singapore the big winner and Hong Kong the big sinner?

Post by Jim the Moron » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:41 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:52 pm
By the way cass:

Those public mass demonstrations in Hong Kong have left me impressed. Singapore is about the same demographic size as HK. When the day comes when in Singapore you can stage such mass demonstrations against denial of civil rights and liberties by your establishment I will then be convinced that Singapore is in earnest about transforming itself into a true democracy.
Fortunately, unlike folks in HK, folks in Singapore have no reason to stage "mass demonstrations." Why should they have? Seems like Singaporeans have achieved a society beneficial to the well-being of its members. Perhaps they aren't particularly anxious to please n'fail with efforts to achieve his vision of "true democracy" for them?

neverfail
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Re: Singapore the big winner and Hong Kong the big sinner?

Post by neverfail » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:14 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:41 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:52 pm
By the way cass:

Those public mass demonstrations in Hong Kong have left me impressed. Singapore is about the same demographic size as HK. When the day comes when in Singapore you can stage such mass demonstrations against denial of civil rights and liberties by your establishment I will then be convinced that Singapore is in earnest about transforming itself into a true democracy.
Fortunately, unlike folks in HK, folks in Singapore have no reason to stage "mass demonstrations." Why should they have? Seems like Singaporeans have achieved a society beneficial to the well-being of its members. Perhaps they aren't particularly anxious to please n'fail with efforts to achieve his vision of "true democracy" for them?
...and pigs might grow wings and fly too Jim. You Yanks have a truism that applies here. It goes if something seems too good to be true, then it probably is. It is simply abnormal, almost against nature, for any people to so be content with the same government for so long that a credible Opposition has not even formed up by now. The Peoples Action Party (PAP) has been in office consistently since independence in 1965. When any party has been in office for that long as their PAP then enough time has passed for various forms of corruption and abuse of power to have set in.

These do not get an airing up there because they do not have a free media.

By contrast, in Hong Kong by standing up to (by extension) PRC tyranny like that the HK protesters are (by extension) standing up for the civil rights and privileges of us all. I applaud them!

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Sertorio
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Re: Singapore the big winner and Hong Kong the big sinner?

Post by Sertorio » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:23 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:14 pm
Jim the Moron wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:41 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:52 pm
By the way cass:

Those public mass demonstrations in Hong Kong have left me impressed. Singapore is about the same demographic size as HK. When the day comes when in Singapore you can stage such mass demonstrations against denial of civil rights and liberties by your establishment I will then be convinced that Singapore is in earnest about transforming itself into a true democracy.
Fortunately, unlike folks in HK, folks in Singapore have no reason to stage "mass demonstrations." Why should they have? Seems like Singaporeans have achieved a society beneficial to the well-being of its members. Perhaps they aren't particularly anxious to please n'fail with efforts to achieve his vision of "true democracy" for them?
...and pigs might grow wings and fly too Jim. You Yanks have a truism that applies here. It goes if something seems too good to be true, then it probably is. It is simply abnormal, almost against nature, for any people to so be content with the same government for so long that a credible Opposition has not even formed up by now. The Peoples Action Party (PAP) has been in office consistently since independence in 1965. When any party has been in office for that long as their PAP then enough time has passed for various forms of corruption and abuse of power to have set in.

These do not get an airing up there because they do not have a free media.

By contrast, in Hong Kong by standing up to (by extension) PRC tyranny like that the HK protesters are (by extension) standing up for the civil rights and privileges of us all. I applaud them!
Singapore and mainland China have something in common: their Confucian tradition. Capitalism or communism are not that important to peoples with such tradition. Democracy is not part of their culture, virtue is. Which means that while denying equality as something to strive for, they believe in the right of people to a materially comfortable life, even if they think that each person has its place in society, some are placed higher, some lower. But such difference should not stand in the way of their finding happiness. Happiness, not equality.

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Sertorio
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Singapore, the Capitalist Paradise

Post by Sertorio » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:32 am

Two charts worth looking at:

Image


Image

Is anything wrong with capitalism, after all?...

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07- ... es-chinese

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Milo
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Re: Singapore, the Capitalist Paradise

Post by Milo » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:52 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:32 am
Two charts worth looking at:

Image


Image

Is anything wrong with capitalism, after all?...

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07- ... es-chinese
It is debatable how capitalist Singapore is.

It's more like an autocracy or Fascist state than anything.

The larger picture is that manufacturing is about to be hit by advances on a Moore's law kind of scale. Anyone who's economy is built on the assumption that manufacturing can provide large numbers of jobs, even crappy jobs, even skilled labour; is in for unprecedented challenges.

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