Thank you New Zealand

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neverfail
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by neverfail » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:23 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:55 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:39 am
uche africanus wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:55 am

I do not mean to quibble but by telling you that you are almost like a Kiwi, he communicated to you that he valued his nationality or culture above your Hokkien or Teochi one.
That might even be true despite cassowary's denial. He does not seem to know his Kiwi hosts as well as he believes he does.
The Kiwis I met have always treated me with kindness and respect.
The circles you get around in I am sure that they did. Think about it. A businessman with money to invest in their country.

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cassowary
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by cassowary » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:54 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:00 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:37 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:54 am
Why do people concern themselves so much with religion? Religions are just power structures which play on our fear of death to manipulate and control us. In fact, all we need is a sound code of ethics which will frame our behaviour in respect of our own society and the world as a whole. A code which will guide us because we want, and because we feel it is good for all, not because we are threatened with some non-existent hell. When will we grow up?...
Who will write the code? Marx?
Most of us have a natural code of ethics. We don't need any Buddha, Moses, Christ or Marx to tell us what to do. If you don't have such a code or refuse to recognize it, that's your problem...
Socialism is the worst religion. It is simply nonsense.

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Sertorio
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by Sertorio » Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:29 am

cassowary wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:54 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:00 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:37 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:54 am
Why do people concern themselves so much with religion? Religions are just power structures which play on our fear of death to manipulate and control us. In fact, all we need is a sound code of ethics which will frame our behaviour in respect of our own society and the world as a whole. A code which will guide us because we want, and because we feel it is good for all, not because we are threatened with some non-existent hell. When will we grow up?...
Who will write the code? Marx?
Most of us have a natural code of ethics. We don't need any Buddha, Moses, Christ or Marx to tell us what to do. If you don't have such a code or refuse to recognize it, that's your problem...
Socialism is the worst religion. It is simply nonsense.
Ethics and religion are two very different things. And many ethical people have no religion, just as many religious people have no ethics...

neverfail
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Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by neverfail » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:02 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:29 am

Ethics and religion are two very different things. And many ethical people have no religion, just as many religious people have no ethics...
So very true, Sertorio.

I have known socialists of the highest integrity who I could confidently trust with my life. I have also had brushes with crooked capitalist types who are nothing but swindlers and scoundrels whom I would need to be be mad to trust.

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cassowary
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by cassowary » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:36 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:29 am
cassowary wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:54 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:00 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:37 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:54 am
Why do people concern themselves so much with religion? Religions are just power structures which play on our fear of death to manipulate and control us. In fact, all we need is a sound code of ethics which will frame our behaviour in respect of our own society and the world as a whole. A code which will guide us because we want, and because we feel it is good for all, not because we are threatened with some non-existent hell. When will we grow up?...
Who will write the code? Marx?
Most of us have a natural code of ethics. We don't need any Buddha, Moses, Christ or Marx to tell us what to do. If you don't have such a code or refuse to recognize it, that's your problem...
Socialism is the worst religion. It is simply nonsense.
Ethics and religion are two very different things. And many ethical people have no religion, just as many religious people have no ethics...
True, but you missed my point. Socialism is a religion, albeit a godless one. It is a set of beliefs based on faith and not evidence because all evidence points to its failure. Yet the devotees still believe. That requires faith.

neverfail
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Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by neverfail » Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:06 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:36 am

True, but you missed my point. Socialism is a religion, albeit a godless one. It is a set of beliefs based on faith and not evidence because all evidence points to its failure. Yet the devotees still believe. That requires faith.
Cass, (with all due respects): what you seem to be describing is not faith (as I normally define it) but selective blindness. Not the same!

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cassowary
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by cassowary » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:12 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:23 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:55 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:39 am
uche africanus wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:55 am

I do not mean to quibble but by telling you that you are almost like a Kiwi, he communicated to you that he valued his nationality or culture above your Hokkien or Teochi one.
That might even be true despite cassowary's denial. He does not seem to know his Kiwi hosts as well as he believes he does.
The Kiwis I met have always treated me with kindness and respect.
The circles you get around in I am sure that they did. Think about it. A businessman with money to invest in their country.
That may be true.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by SteveFoerster » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:29 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:57 am
Mr. Perfect wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:26 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:03 pm
There are a couple of things I think I can rely upon:

1. The universe exists and is evolving;
2. There is a time sequence which I believe is true anywhere in the universe: first there is a material world but no life; then life appears; eventually life generates consciousness.
3. Consciousness begins by being individual.
4. Consciousness may evolve from individual to group consciousness.
5. Planets may develop a collective consciousness including all living beings.
6. Eventually the whole universe may become conscious. What that means I don't know, but I expect every sentient being to have its place in that universal consciousness.

My individual role in all that is to accept my small part in that process, not worrying whether my individual consciousness will prevail in the whole or not.
Interesting. It seems very religious to me. Requires a lot of faith.
Not religious, but maybe metaphysical. Not faith, reasoned speculation.
Metaphysical... reasoned speculation... pick one, please.

Doubly so in that your list stops being real after item three. You may as well have included stone tablets after that point.

As for secular writers only advising people to "eat, drink, and be merry," the Stoics would disagree, as would many non-theist Eastern philosophers.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Sertorio
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by Sertorio » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:30 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:29 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:57 am
Mr. Perfect wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:26 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:03 pm
There are a couple of things I think I can rely upon:

1. The universe exists and is evolving;
2. There is a time sequence which I believe is true anywhere in the universe: first there is a material world but no life; then life appears; eventually life generates consciousness.
3. Consciousness begins by being individual.
4. Consciousness may evolve from individual to group consciousness.
5. Planets may develop a collective consciousness including all living beings.
6. Eventually the whole universe may become conscious. What that means I don't know, but I expect every sentient being to have its place in that universal consciousness.

My individual role in all that is to accept my small part in that process, not worrying whether my individual consciousness will prevail in the whole or not.
Interesting. It seems very religious to me. Requires a lot of faith.
Not religious, but maybe metaphysical. Not faith, reasoned speculation.
Metaphysical... reasoned speculation... pick one, please.

Doubly so in that your list stops being real after item three. You may as well have included stone tablets after that point.

As for secular writers only advising people to "eat, drink, and be merry," the Stoics would disagree, as would many non-theist Eastern philosophers.
Metaphysics are mostly speculative, thus no contradiction.

Stone tablets are not speculative, they are prescriptive, so they have no relation to what I postulated...

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:39 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:30 am
Metaphysics are mostly speculative, thus no contradiction.

Stone tablets are not speculative, they are prescriptive, so they have no relation to what I postulated...
And yet in your list you spoke of metaphysical matters not as if they were speculative, but as if they were prescribed.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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